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  1. #701
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    The very last thing you typed is the exact problem with your stance. There is no quick rebuild / reload for the spurs.
    First of all, there is. The Spurs totally have paths to try to improve around the guys they already have. That won't get them to be a firm contender or anything, but they can certainly fight for HCA in the first round if they're willing to go for it.

    You seem to be looking at this from the perspective of the spurs are this team that is set in stone going forward, and for whatever reason you do not think Dejounte fits into that team, so he needs to be moved for some piece that does fit. I think the opposite. I think their are very few things on this team that are set in stone, seeing as how every single player on this team except Dejounte and soon to be Derrick White is on a one year deal or on a rookie contract.
    Nah, I think Murray is easily the worst of White, Walker, Jonhson, Murray and that there are plenty of guards I'd want over him. That doesn't make Murray horrible, but the fact that he's signed to a four-year deal isn't remotely comforting for me.

    I also think it's difficult to know exactly how good Dejounte really is because he could not be playing with a group of players who are a worst fit for his skillset, which right now is pushing the ball offensively. Forbes doesn't do anything but shoot open 3's, so unless Dejounte is passing to him while he is open, he gains nothing. LMA is either going to pick and pop all night and you can get some assist out of feeding him, or he is going to hold the ball forever doing his yabba dabba doo post moves and you are going to get 0 assist giving him the ball. He is also one of the worst passing big men I have ever seen and NEVER EVER EVEN ONCE hits Dejounte when he cuts to the rim, which he is very good at, but you wouldn't know unless you really watch a lot of film cause you know, LMA never passes him the ball in that situation. DDR doesn't like to catch and shoot, he prefers to set his own shot up with his dribble, so Dejounte is never going to get anything out of him either. He doesn't shoot 3's, so forget about him ever being an option to get the ball off of Dejounte, or anyone else dribble penetration. Poeltl pretty much doesn't shoot the ball period, and when he does he goes up like the quintessential soft white euro player and ends up bricking the shot or having somebody 4 inches shorter than him block his shot. Rudy is a willing catch and shoot player but it depends more on how his body is feeling that night if he is going to actually makes shots or not. Patty is another guy who only shoots 3's and long 2's...


    So Dejounte is left playing with a guy who doesn't do anything but shoot 3's...a guy who NEVER shoots 3's...a guy who either picks and pops all night or NEVER picks and pops, a guy who doesn't shoot at all, and a guy who's body is failing him and you don't really know what you are going to get...I would say the answer is to get rid of those guys and build an actual modern nba team around Dejounte...which the spurs were NOT until they played in the bubble...and then see what happens...
    All of those players have been paths to helping NBA offense than Murray does. Of course Forbes is a net-negative. But thinking LMA, DMDR or even Gay should worry about their fit with a relative scrub is absurd. Aldridge is a borderline HoFer. Murray's done nothing. It's insane that you think the goal should be to build around the worst player in the lineup because he's not able to play with anyone better than him.

    And at thinking the bubble team was "built around" Murray when he was the worst player of the starting five. They'd've seriously made the play-in game had they benched him for Johnson.

    think this teams upside is EXACTLY what you said it isn't, which is hoping their young guys take a leap and play well. Which is, you know, how virtually every team in the nba operates...
    Basically no one does this except tanking teams. Teams' upside isn't dependent on young guys improving. It's dependent on the team as a whole performing better. Young guys getting better is certainly part of that process, but team cohesion, scheme and overall roster talent play a much bigger role. Again, your need to venerate a guy who's really low on the totem pole and remove any sort of challenge to him to try to hide the fact that he's a poor man's Jamal Crawford is the issue. Murray himself IS THE PROBLEM, not literally everything else. It's not that he's a bad player, it's that he and you have this unrealistic idea of how good he is and won't let him adapt his game to his real status.

    I'm only willing to give up Dejounte for somebody I am 100% sure is and will be better than him.
    That's dumb. There aren't two ways about it. You can't be sure that anyone would be better. You don't build your team based on a flat notion like that. There was zero guarantee that Leonard would be better than Hill, that Gay would be better than Battier. That the guy drafted with the LAL pick in 2018 (Mikal Bridges) would be better than MCW. That not how trades work. Instead you have to project based on position, skill-set and fit and come up with a reasonable value for the two sides of the trade. It's not hard at all to find guys whose skill-sets fit better than Murray's, whose four cheap rookie-scale deals provide better savings than Murray's overpriced contract, who put the roster closer to taking a step forward. What you don't do is hold onto a guy hoping he becomes a better player as he ages and remove anyone who could possibly stop him be being better.

  2. #702
    Believe.
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    First of all, there is. The Spurs totally have paths to try to improve around the guys they already have. That won't get them to be a firm contender or anything, but they can certainly fight for HCA in the first round if they're willing to go for it.



    Nah, I think Murray is easily the worst of White, Walker, Jonhson, Murray and that there are plenty of guards I'd want over him. That doesn't make Murray horrible, but the fact that he's signed to a four-year deal isn't remotely comforting for me.



    All of those players have been paths to helping NBA offense than Murray does. Of course Forbes is a net-negative. But thinking LMA, DMDR or even Gay should worry about their fit with a relative scrub is absurd. Aldridge is a borderline HoFer. Murray's done nothing. It's insane that you think the goal should be to build around the worst player in the lineup because he's not able to play with anyone better than him.

    And at thinking the bubble team was "built around" Murray when he was the worst player of the starting five. They'd've seriously made the play-in game had they benched him for Johnson.



    Basically no one does this except tanking teams. Teams' upside isn't dependent on young guys improving. It's dependent on the team as a whole performing better. Young guys getting better is certainly part of that process, but team cohesion, scheme and overall roster talent play a much bigger role. Again, your need to venerate a guy who's really low on the totem pole and remove any sort of challenge to him to try to hide the fact that he's a poor man's Jamal Crawford is the issue. Murray himself IS THE PROBLEM, not literally everything else. It's not that he's a bad player, it's that he and you have this unrealistic idea of how good he is and won't let him adapt his game to his real status.



    That's dumb. There aren't two ways about it. You can't be sure that anyone would be better. You don't build your team based on a flat notion like that. There was zero guarantee that Leonard would be better than Hill, that Gay would be better than Battier. That the guy drafted with the LAL pick in 2018 (Mikal Bridges) would be better than MCW. That not how trades work. Instead you have to project based on position, skill-set and fit and come up with a reasonable value for the two sides of the trade. It's not hard at all to find guys whose skill-sets fit better than Murray's, whose four cheap rookie-scale deals provide better savings than Murray's overpriced contract, who put the roster closer to taking a step forward. What you don't do is hold onto a guy hoping he becomes a better player as he ages and remove anyone who could possibly stop him be being better.
    These are some of the worst basketball takes I have ever seen posted on the internet.

    Like, if I asked Donald Trump about the spurs, this is the type of stuff I would expect him to type.

    Never once said the bubble team was built around Murray. It wasn't built around anymore. You just straight made that up out of thin air to argue a point that doesn't even exist.

    Teams upside isn't dependent on young guys improving? This is the literal dumbest thing I have ever heard. Do we ring in 2014 if Kawhi never improved ? Are the Bucks contenders if Giannis never improves ? Do the Pelicans get a haul of young players and picks if Anthony Davis improves ? Is Portland a playoff team if Dame never improves?

    Your argument about Murray doesn't make any sense because he is the one with the 4 year contract, not all the other players, by virtue of them having one more year left on their deals and Dejounte having 4. It's not in bent upon Dejounte to try and figure out how to play with DDR, because Dejounte has a 4 year contract to play here, it's in bent upon DDR to figure out how to play with Dejounte, because the Spurs have had an entire season to work out a deal to keep him here, and they haven't done it yet, and I don't think they are going to do it.

    Just awful basketball and commen sense takes in your post. This is the type of stuff that might get Trump elected for a second term...

  3. #703
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    These are some of the worst basketball takes I have ever seen posted on the internet.

    Like, if I asked Donald Trump about the spurs, this is the type of stuff I would expect him to type.
    Cut out the hyperbole bro.

    Never once said the bubble team was built around Murray. It wasn't built around anymore. You just straight made that up out of thin air to argue a point that doesn't even exist.
    the answer is to get rid of those guys and build an actual modern nba team around Dejounte...which the spurs were NOT until they played in the bubble
    Teams upside isn't dependent on young guys improving? This is the literal dumbest thing I have ever heard. Do we ring in 2014 if Kawhi never improved ? Are the Bucks contenders if Giannis never improves ? Do the Pelicans get a haul of young players and picks if Anthony Davis improves ? Is Portland a playoff team if Dame never improves?
    You're basically not even reading what I write at this point. I answered exactly what I meant by that sentence and how young players improve fits. This tactic you're trying to use of not understanding arguments you disagreement isn't helping you nearly as much as you think.

    Your argument about Murray doesn't make any sense because he is the one with the 4 year contract, not all the other players, by virtue of them having one more year left on their deals and Dejounte having 4. It's not in bent upon Dejounte to try and figure out how to play with DDR, because Dejounte has a 4 year contract to play here, it's in bent upon DDR to figure out how to play with Dejounte, because the Spurs have had an entire season to work out a deal to keep him here, and they haven't done it yet, and I don't think they are going to do it.
    I think you're missing the point. It's not that Murray specifically needs to play well with DMDR and LMA. It's that he needs to learn that he's not good enough for people to learn to play with. He is the one who has to adjust, not better players. Hopefully, the Spurs get better players to replace LMA/DMDR/Gay, but in that case, those new guys are going to be stars, not DJM. He's the one who's not good enough, not everyone else. The only way he's the best player on the team is if the team is horrible.

    And no, I don't think DeRozan is worried about having to learn to play with Murray in order to stay in SA. First, because I think he likes DJM just fine and isn't trying to NOT play with him. Second, I think he'd be just fine going to another team. He doesn't need the Spurs.

    I actually don't disagree that the Spurs gave Murray that money because they like him and want him to be part of the team. I just don't think that matters.

    Just awful basketball and commen sense takes in your post. This is the type of stuff that might get Trump elected for a second term
    Again, just dumb hyperbole.

  4. #704
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    Dots. He is a Spur for life.


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