Red Planet of Derrick White

[ceperez]

Glad you have come around. White is a PG, with the makings of an excellent one. In addition to your excellent observations, another point about him is White makes guys around him better - including LMA. I didn’t see that from Murray. Not to be misunderstood - I am a fan of Murray. But it is he who needs to concentrate on improving his shooting to become our SG.

Murray had a very hard time setting up the offense. He's got as much court vision as DeRozan. In short, virtually none.

I think we forget that Murray had guys like Parker and Manu to back him up.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Jackie Butler? Wow, you sure can hold a grudge! The guy signed as a cheap free agent, and didn't pan out. The next year, the Spurs won an NBA le.

I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't who you think you are. Jackie Butler got his contract and quit basketball - he just stayed around to cash checks. The contract wasn't "cheap" by the standards of that time. It was a three year deal, and he played in exactly 11 games for the rest of his career. The Spurs had to give up rights to Louis Scola to salary dump his lazy fat ass.

It was quite possibly the worst deal in PATFO history. The fact that you don't know that says a lot. The fact that you would try to lecture someone who does know, just because you went to Basketball Reference and looked up his salary means:

You have been judged and found unworthy.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Is Pop really the type to demote a player simply because of injury missing one season? He didn't choose to name Murray as the starting PG on a whim.

Glad you have come around. White is a PG, with the makings of an excellent one. In addition to your excellent observations, another point about him is White makes guys around him better - including LMA. I didn’t see that from Murray. Not to be misunderstood - I am a fan of Murray. But it is he who needs to concentrate on improving his shooting to become our SG.

I've come around? LOL. You didn't just move the goal post, you switched ends on the damn field.

I liked White when they drafted him. But I'll admit that I have come around on him as a PG from the beginning of the season. But he's not even the same player he was at the beginning of the season. It has been a fun transformation to watch.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't who you think you are. Jackie Butler got his contract and quit basketball - he just stayed around to cash checks. The contract wasn't "cheap" by the standards of that time. It was a three year deal, and he played in exactly 11 games for the rest of his career. The Spurs had to give up rights to Louis Scola to salary dump his lazy fat ass.

It was quite possibly the worst deal in PATFO history. The fact that you don't know that says a lot. The fact that you would try to lecture someone who does know, just because you went to Basketball Reference and looked up his salary means:

You have been judged and found unworthy.

Your whole mythology schtick is cute.

[Mr. Body]

Murray had a very hard time setting up the offense. He's got as much court vision as DeRozan. In short, virtually none.

I think we forget that Murray had guys like Parker and Manu to back him up.

DeRozan has way more court vision than Murray.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Your whole mythology schtick is cute.

So which part is mythology?

Butler didn't sign a 3 year deal, and then only play 11 games for the rest of his career?
Did the Spurs really WANT to get rid of Scola's rights?
Did the Spurs really WANT to sign Spanoulis, knowing that he had left the NBA to go back to Europe?

Surely you don't doubt that from up here on Olympus, you're an insignificant little snail-darter?

[R. DeMurre]

So which part is mythology?

Butler didn't sign a 3 year deal, and then only play 11 games for the rest of his career?
Did the Spurs really WANT to get rid of Scola's rights?
Did the Spurs really WANT to sign Spanoulis, knowing that he had left the NBA to go back to Europe?

Surely you don't doubt that from up here on Olympus, you're an insignificant little snail-darter?

No, dummy: your Zeus Will Judge & You Are Not Worthy schtick. You sound like an extra in a Cecil B. DeMille movie.

[sasaint]

I've come around? LOL. You didn't just move the goal post, you switched ends on the damn field.

I liked White when they drafted him. But I'll admit that I have come around on him as a PG from the beginning of the season. But he's not even the same player he was at the beginning of the season. It has been a fun transformation to watch.

No big deal, but yeah, you’ve come around, as indicated in your second paragraph. You may have liked White from jump, but you posted not long ago that he wasn’t a true PG. I only indicated that you have come around on him as a PG.

[sasaint]

I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't who you think you are. Jackie Butler got his contract and quit basketball - he just stayed around to cash checks. The contract wasn't "cheap" by the standards of that time. It was a three year deal, and he played in exactly 11 games for the rest of his career. The Spurs had to give up rights to Louis Scola to salary dump his lazy fat ass.

It was quite possibly the worst deal in PATFO history. The fact that you don't know that says a lot. The fact that you would try to lecture someone who does know, just because you went to Basketball Reference and looked up his salary means:

You have been judged and found unworthy.

Wow, Jackie Butler. That deal was so horrible that he gets mentioned on ST even less than HWNSNBM!

[phxspurfan]

I don't know who you think you are, but you aren't who you think you are. Jackie Butler got his contract and quit basketball - he just stayed around to cash checks. The contract wasn't "cheap" by the standards of that time. It was a three year deal, and he played in exactly 11 games for the rest of his career. The Spurs had to give up rights to Louis Scola to salary dump his lazy fat ass.

It was quite possibly the worst deal in PATFO history. The fact that you don't know that says a lot. The fact that you would try to lecture someone who does know, just because you went to Basketball Reference and looked up his salary means:

You have been judged and found unworthy.

Roast dat nasf

[sasaint]

Murray had a very hard time setting up the offense. He's got as much court vision as DeRozan. In short, virtually none.

I think we forget that Murray had guys like Parker and Manu to back him up.

I think a lot of ST posters are so starved for some athleticism in silver and black that it prejudices their assessment of his actual BB skill set.

[Dex]

One of the reasons I feel so optimistic about this summer's draft: if the Spurs have two shots in the first round, I'm betting at least one is a winner.

Here is hoping. People are talking about the Toronto pick like it's gonna be useless, but Spurs were stuck with 25th-30th pick for like two decades and seemed to do just fine.

Dejounte Murray and Derrick White were both picked at #29.

Davis wasn't picked by the Spurs, but he's a #42 pick that has turned into a valuable player.

Or we could could try to pair the picks to move up in the draft and get another top 15 guy.

[K...]

So which part is mythology?

Butler didn't sign a 3 year deal, and then only play 11 games for the rest of his career?
Did the Spurs really WANT to get rid of Scola's rights?
Did the Spurs really WANT to sign Spanoulis, knowing that he had left the NBA to go back to Europe?

Surely you don't doubt that from up here on Olympus, you're an insignificant little snail-darter?

The Spurs had their chance to sign scola but didn't want to pay. It wasn't a huge asset for the Spurs, more of a sunk loss. This does not mean Jackie Butler did not suck hard balls, he did.

[sasaint]

Here is hoping. People are talking about the Toronto pick like it's gonna be useless, but Spurs were stuck with 25th-30th pick for like two decades and seemed to do just fine.

Dejounte Murray and Derrick White were both picked at #29.

Davis wasn't picked by the Spurs, but he's a #42 pick that has turned into a valuable player.

Or we could could try to pair the picks to move up in the draft and get another top 15 guy.

Absolutely! The Toronto pick is like our traditional slot; we find plenty of good prospects there. It’s our own pick that is gravy. I honestly have no idea how PATFO will handle this draft. We already have more youth than is typical, so I don’t know how comfortable Pop would be bringing in 2 first-rounders (not even considering a 2nd).

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Glad you have come around. White is a PG, with the makings of an excellent one. In addition to your excellent observations, another point about him is White makes guys around him better - including LMA. I didn’t see that from Murray. Not to be misunderstood - I am a fan of Murray. But it is he who needs to concentrate on improving his shooting to become our SG.

I agree 100% with this statement. If Murray can hit the 3 at 35% on at least 4 attempts per game next season I feel him DeRozan and White would have no issues being on the court together. Last season Murray shot the corner 3 at a decent % if I recall correctly

[exstatic]

My take may be "dense" like you say but yours is just wrong. Was Cojo the BPA? Milutinov? LJC? Nope none of those were the best player available. 2 of them were drafted for need (I have no idea why we picked LJC). Kawhi was also drafted for a need (we know this bc Pop said so a million times.

Hey look, Tony Parker is gettin older and slower so we draft DJ. Gino is 40 and we probably need another combo guard to take his spot and what do you know, they draft White. Lonnie was BPA but he also filled a team need (like the 2 picks before him did).

3 years in a row RC has drafted guards AND he picked up 2 more guards this offseason. Pop and RC may be stuck between 2 players in the 27-29th pick in this year's draft (since it's pretty much a crapshoot) and RC wants a guard while Pop wants a big man. It's up to RC to bring pop over to his page (like he did with Kawhi). If we draft a guard this year (BPA or not) it signals that RC doesn't have the same faith in Mills and Forbes as Pop does. 8 guards on one team is kinda a lot

We never really know what the Spurs 'board' looks like. They may have had Cojo as BPA. I did, however, forget one factor, because they don't do it much any more, so I'll amend my statement: The Spurs don't draft for need, they draft the best player available, or a draft and stash type.

As for drafting guards three years in a row, it was widely accepted that Dejounte fell WAY farther than folks thought he would, and was BPA for that #29 spot. Didn't hear much about White, pre-draft, but you certainly could make a case that it wasn't for 'need', since they had just drafted a PG in Dejounte. LW IV, by accounts, was top 10 on the Spurs board, and they got him at #17. Again, BPA. You keep saying 'RC drafted'. It's not a solo endevor. PATFO sit down after the draft pool is finalized, and set up their board of 60 players. When their pick comes up, the work has already been done. They pick the highest available player left on their board, or, they pick a draft and stash. The'll know in advance, though, which way they will likely go. They drafted Mulinitov because they were clearing the financial decks for LaMarcus and needed every dollar.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

We never really know what the Spurs 'board' looks like. They may have had Cojo as BPA. I did, however, forget one factor, because they don't do it much any more, so I'll amend my statement: The Spurs don't draft for need, they draft the best player available, or a draft and stash type.

As for drafting guards three years in a row, it was widely accepted that Dejounte fell WAY farther than folks thought he would, and was BPA for that #29 spot. Didn't hear much about White, pre-draft, but you certainly could make a case that it wasn't for 'need', since they had just drafted a PG in Dejounte. LW IV, by accounts, was top 10 on the Spurs board, and they got him at #17. Again, BPA. You keep saying 'RC drafted'. It's not a solo endevor. PATFO sit down after the draft pool is finalized, and set up their board of 60 players. When their pick comes up, the work has already been done. They pick the highest available player left on their board, or, they pick a draft and stash. The'll know in advance, though, which way they will likely go. They drafted Mulinitov because they were clearing the financial decks for LaMarcus and needed every dollar.

I know they make the decision together but they draft for need all the time. Sure DJ and White were BPA but they were also for need. We needed younger guards to replace the older guards. So to say they don't draft for need is wrong. I also know why they drafted Milu as well, it was just another example of not drafting solely on BPA as you claimed. Just like Kawhi was drafted on a need.

My point wasn't to say that RC and pop don't make decisions together. Of course they do. I know they make a list of players and rank them. And if a player falls in their lap like DJ and Lonnie then they pounce on them.

My point is to all the people who say that Pop will never get rid of Patty or Forbes bc he likes them too much. Pop may love them but RC may be looking to replace them. If Pop and RC do their job well and we get another steal at 18 or so then where is the fit for Forbes? What if Lonnie has a jump next year? Do the Spurs really need next year's pick? That's a lot of youth to have on the team when maybe a player and a 1st round pick will net them a more established player. Mills could be gone to make the salary work

[ceperez]

Here is hoping. People are talking about the Toronto pick like it's gonna be useless, but Spurs were stuck with 25th-30th pick for like two decades and seemed to do just fine.

Dejounte Murray and Derrick White were both picked at #29.

Davis wasn't picked by the Spurs, but he's a #42 pick that has turned into a valuable player.

Or we could could try to pair the picks to move up in the draft and get another top 15 guy.

I'm not sure if other teams would like to deal with the Spurs.

After what they did to Pacers, no GM would like to be made into a complete fool!

The way most GMs think is they would rather avoid looking like a fool than make a bold move.

[ceperez]

I agree 100% with this statement. If Murray can hit the 3 at 35% on at least 4 attempts per game next season I feel him DeRozan and White would have no issues being on the court together. Last season Murray shot the corner 3 at a decent % if I recall correctly

Walker IV has a much better chance at hitting the 3 at 35% than Murray.

Let's be real here about Murray's upside, he's a long and thin Patrick Beverly. Very good defensively and rebounding. Marginal offensive player.

[sasaint]

I'm not sure if other teams would like to deal with the Spurs.

After what they did to Pacers, no GM would like to be made into a complete fool!

The way most GMs think is they would rather avoid looking like a fool than make a bold move.

I think many fans overstate the continuing impact of the Pacers trade. A lot of water under the bridge since then, including the recent Number 2 trade. Heck, there may be some GMs licking their chops to engage the Spurs as a trade partner. Other than the Pacers deal, I can't recall any trade the Spurs made that fleeced their trade partner.

[SpurPadre]

That's a pretty unreasonable standard to hold a franchise to. They do have, by far, in a small market many stars wouldn't consider, the longest running playoff streak in the NBA, and 5 rings in 20 years. So, against 29 other franchises-- many with more money to spend-- the Spurs have won 25% of the championships over two decades.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not holding them accountable for not having 21 les. My main point is that they can't be justified all the time. They're human and they make mistakes.

[sasaint]

Walker IV has a much better chance at hitting the 3 at 35% than Murray.

Let's be real here about Murray's upside, he's a long and thin Patrick Beverly. Very good defensively and rebounding. Marginal offensive player.

The jury is out. If the speculation is accurate about Murray's work on his 3-point shot - and the results - then 35% seems very realistic for Murray. I think the real question is whether LWIV can hit at a rate that is closer to 40%. Judging by his form, that also seems realistic. Neither one has shown much court vision or floor game. But beyond the shooting and floor game, Murray has shown very good defensive chops, whereas LWIV looks lost on D.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not holding them accountable for not having 21 les. My main point is that they can't be justified all the time. They're human and they make mistakes.

I knew exactly what you meant. He moved the goal posts on you. Just because PATFO had done a lot of good things doesn't mean that they haven't also made some mistakes. It's really not a difficult concept, except for people who want to be contrary and argue about everything.

[TimmyBuckets]

White and Murray backcourt or White off the bench. Pop is gonna fiddle with the lineups, but those 2 together is gonna be fantastic defensively.

[look_at_g_shred]

Pop loves defense so why wouldn’t they start together?