Red Planet of Derrick White

[look_at_g_shred]

Pop loves defense so why wouldn’t they start together?

[cd021]

Pop loves defense so why wouldn’t they start together?

Chance are its a bad fit. Murray may still not be able to shoot despite his reported progress, White is a low volume 3pt shooter and DeRozan is useless without the ball. DeRozan and Murray are both going to need the ball meaning White would probably play mostly off the ball even though he is probably the best passer of the three.

Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge
Mills, White, Belinelli, Bertans, Poeltl

makes a lot more sense; White can have long stretches where he can be the primary ball handler off the bench and still end up playing like 28 mpg. DeRozan would be the primary ball handler and Murray, the secondary, in the starting lineup and Forbes would be in there to space the floor.

The closing lineups would still likely be Murray, White, DeRozan, Gay/Bertans and LMA though.

[Rusty]

Should just trade Dejounte Murray and Demar. That’ll solve all the problem

[SpurPadre]

I knew exactly what you meant. He moved the goal posts on you. Just because PATFO had done a lot of good things doesn't mean that they haven't also made some mistakes. It's really not a difficult concept, except for people who want to be contrary and argue about everything.

Thanks for understanding, bro.

[XDT76]

Chance are its a bad fit. Murray may still not be able to shoot despite his reported progress, White is a low volume 3pt shooter and DeRozan is useless without the ball. DeRozan and Murray are both going to need the ball meaning White would probably play mostly off the ball even though he is probably the best passer of the three.

Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge
Mills, White, Belinelli, Bertans, Poeltl

makes a lot more sense; White can have long stretches where he can be the primary ball handler off the bench and still end up playing like 28 mpg. DeRozan would be the primary ball handler and Murray, the secondary, in the starting lineup and Forbes would be in there to space the floor.

The closing lineups would still likely be Murray, White, DeRozan, Gay/Bertans and LMA though.

I would swap Gay and Bertans, Gay would provide a bit of iso play in the second team and bertans to provide more spacing to the SL.

[ceperez]

I would swap Gay and Bertans, Gay would provide a bit of iso play in the second team and bertans to provide more spacing to the SL.

Gay should be that guy who plays the Manu role. Super sub and then play during crunch time.

[GusT15]

Gay should be that guy who plays the Manu role. Super sub and then play during crunch time.

Manu was not a "role" and hence he cannot be played or replicated by anybody else than Manu himself.

Mirotic is a super sub for the Bucks,Iguodala was a super sub for the Warriors,Gordon was a super sub for the Rockets.

Manu was a hall of famer who scored,created for the others,took charges and played defense.And he had the Spurs bench destroy opposing bench units year after year.

Rudy Gay can score,sure,but he doesn't make Patty Mills a 3point specialist while hiding his deficiencies,he doesn't direct the entire perimeter defense,he doesn't control the tempo and he doesn't take over games when the starters take a breather.

[John B]

White is fast becoming a solid two-way player. While Kawhi was able to score, he never distributed. White with his defense, scoring had to still facilitate. That’s Gary Peyton with rebounding. Dang.

[John B]

Chance are its a bad fit. Murray may still not be able to shoot despite his reported progress, White is a low volume 3pt shooter and DeRozan is useless without the ball. DeRozan and Murray are both going to need the ball meaning White would probably play mostly off the ball even though he is probably the best passer of the three.

Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge
Mills, White, Belinelli, Bertans, Poeltl

makes a lot more sense; White can have long stretches where he can be the primary ball handler off the bench and still end up playing like 28 mpg. DeRozan would be the primary ball handler and Murray, the secondary, in the starting lineup and Forbes would be in there to space the floor.

The closing lineups would still likely be Murray, White, DeRozan, Gay/Bertans and LMA though.

I don’t see why White would take a backseat to Murray, when Murray is just all potential. We don’t even know he could shoot. While White has shown he is Spurs best 2-way player right now, MVP-like the way he changes entirely Spurs chances of winning when he plays. Why would a play like that take the backseat? I say, Murray needs to prove himself first and slowy gets reinserted in the system.

[ceperez]

Manu was not a "role" and hence he cannot be played or replicated by anybody else than Manu himself.

Mirotic is a super sub for the Bucks,Iguodala was a super sub for the Warriors,Gordon was a super sub for the Rockets.

Manu was a hall of famer who scored,created for the others,took charges and played defense.And he had the Spurs bench destroy opposing bench units year after year.

Rudy Gay can score,sure,but he doesn't make Patty Mills a 3point specialist while hiding his deficiencies,he doesn't direct the entire perimeter defense,he doesn't control the tempo and he doesn't take over games when the starters take a breather.

A thousand apologies about calling Manu a role.

I meant, he should play on 2nd team, but remain with the team on crunch time. That's all.

[ceperez]

White is fast becoming a solid two-way player. While Kawhi was able to score, he never distributed. White with his defense, scoring had to still facilitate. That’s Gary Peyton with rebounding. Dang.

Exacto! Kahwi could never make his teammates better on offense. He knew that and that's why he decided to bail under the pressure.

[ceperez]

I don’t see why White would take a backseat to Murray, when Murray is just all potential. We don’t even know he could shoot. While White has shown he is Spurs best 2-way player right now, MVP-like the way he changes entirely Spurs chances of winning when he plays. Why would a play like that take the backseat? I say, Murray needs to prove himself first and slowy gets reinserted in the system.

Right. We saw Murray play last season and it was a complete miracle that the offense did not completely gunk up with him having the ball.

That team had Manu, Parker and even Anderson that knew where to move the ball to. Murray by himself couldn't read a defensive set even if his life was on the line.

Does anyone have any highlights of Murray with a stellar assist?

He defended well and he had a decent penetration game. That is all that he could do.

[Dejounte]

Derrick and Forbes should go to the bench. Having a 6'3" starting shooting guard should will never be championship caliber and these two already have chemistry together.

Lonnie is a shooter and hopefully speeds up his development so he could start alongside Murray.

Dejounte
Lonnie
DeMar
Aldridge
Poetl

White
Forbes
Gay
Bertans
Metu

[GusT15]

A thousand apologies about calling Manu a role.

I meant, he should play on 2nd team, but remain with the team on crunch time. That's all.

Well,you're right,but the biggest problem with the 2nd unit this year is the lack of a proper play maker.

White can't play 40 mins per game,Patty is not that kind of a point guard (if you can call him a PG at all).
And Gay basically will play post up iso while 4 others guys are not moving at all.

At least with Bertans in the bench unit you can actually call it the 3pt line up.

Ideally the bench unit could use DDR instead of Gay for heavy minutes IF DeRozan would pass quicker and more sensibly when slashing.DeRozan's face up iso is more useful than Gay with his back to the basket.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Walker IV has a much better chance at hitting the 3 at 35% than Murray.

Let's be real here about Murray's upside, he's a long and thin Patrick Beverly. Very good defensively and rebounding. Marginal offensive player.

Shooting is a skill that with serious repe ion and training can be improved. There are numerous players who made themselves into better shooters after years of not being a shooter like Jason Kidd or even a guy like Blake Griffin the last couple of seasons who has opened his game up by being able to hit deep jumpers and 3's.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I don’t see why White would take a backseat to Murray, when Murray is just all potential. We don’t even know he could shoot. While White has shown he is Spurs best 2-way player right now, MVP-like the way he changes entirely Spurs chances of winning when he plays. Why would a play like that take the backseat? I say, Murray needs to prove himself first and slowy gets reinserted in the system.

Exactly! White is a way better point guard at this point and eventhough Murray can and most likely will get better at setting others up for easy shots, I believe White should start next season. Or the team should at least not automatically give the starting job back to Murray without him earning it back with his play

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

I know they make the decision together but they draft for need all the time. Sure DJ and White were BPA but they were also for need. We needed younger guards to replace the older guards. So to say they don't draft for need is wrong. I also know why they drafted Milu as well, it was just another example of not drafting solely on BPA as you claimed. Just like Kawhi was drafted on a need.

My point wasn't to say that RC and pop don't make decisions together. Of course they do. I know they make a list of players and rank them. And if a player falls in their lap like DJ and Lonnie then they pounce on them.

My point is to all the people who say that Pop will never get rid of Patty or Forbes bc he likes them too much. Pop may love them but RC may be looking to replace them. If Pop and RC do their job well and we get another steal at 18 or so then where is the fit for Forbes? What if Lonnie has a jump next year? Do the Spurs really need next year's pick? That's a lot of youth to have on the team when maybe a player and a 1st round pick will net them a more established player. Mills could be gone to make the salary work

I don't know anything about the Spurs specific drat process, but almost all teams draft BPA first, need 2nd. I know I read an article (can't remember which team) but they used a number grade system (30 being highest possible grade) and created color coded teirs as many players would have same grade or be separated by less than full point. Their rule was you never dropped a teir to select based on need. So they may pick a guard graded at 26.5 over a C graded at 26.8. So need could be placed over BPA but only when the two players had received similar grades. The personnel executives quoted in the article made it sound like most (if not all teams) use a similar approach. So talent and need are considered but the ability of an organization to recognize and properly grade players is the most important part of process.

[cjw]

Especially in this day and age of interchangeability, you should always draft BPA unless it’s a guy who is limited on the floor in terms of lineup fit (say you have a glut of bigs, and the guy is a big who can’t stretch the floor ... unless the difference to next BPA is that great in which case you figure out the fit issue later).

People complaining about Murray forget he just turned 22 and already made an All D team. Even if the offense never materializes, he’s a useful rotation guard for 20+ minutes a game. But during his ACL rehab I’m certain he’s in the gym working that jumper. The fit next to White could be a lot better than you think next year. We already know it will be stellar on defense.

[Russ]

Right. We saw Murray play last season and it was a complete miracle that the offense did not completely gunk up with him having the ball.

That team had Manu, Parker and even Anderson that knew where to move the ball to. Murray by himself couldn't read a defensive set even if his life was on the line.

Does anyone have any highlights of Murray with a stellar assist?

He defended well and he had a decent penetration game. That is all that he could do.

Murray is actually a very good passer (don't let his shooting woes overshadow his other offensive skills).

In fact, he's probably the best passer of the Spurs young guards. He's been missed this season on offense as well as defense.

Check out the assists on this video at 0:01, 0:21, 1:03, 1:25, and 2:04.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FjRmMsrWU

[exstatic]

It's funny. This board clamors for athleticism and length in the draft, and then when we get that in Dejounte, most are ready to relegate him to the bench after 1.5 seasons of play.

[ceperez]

It's funny. This board clamors for athleticism and length in the draft, and then when we get that in Dejounte, most are ready to relegate him to the bench after 1.5 seasons of play.

That's because there is actually someone better than him in the starting line up. There is also someone better than him that just got drafted.

[exstatic]

That's because there is actually someone better than him in the starting line up. There is also someone better than him that just got drafted.

Walker, while brimming with potential, is NOT better than Dejounte. LW IV projects as a deadeye shooter, passable distributor, and passable defender. The one thing that gives me pause about him is that he scores, and drops a few dimes, and that's really it. He's a sub par rebounder for his size and athletic ability. He's not a ball hawk on defense, nor does he block shots. He really fills two spots in the box score: points and maybe a few assists. He's pretty much the definition of an off the bench scorer.

Dejounte fills up the box score across the line, points, assists, premium rebounding ability for his size and position, steals and is already an All Defense player.

[ceperez]

Walker, while brimming with potential, is NOT better than Dejounte. LW IV projects as a deadeye shooter, passable distributor, and passable defender. The one thing that gives me pause about him is that he scores, and drops a few dimes, and that's really it. He's a sub par rebounder for his size and athletic ability. He's not a ball hawk on defense, nor does he block shots. He really fills two spots in the box score: points and maybe a few assists. He's pretty much the definition of an off the bench scorer.

Dejounte fills up the box score across the line, points, assists, premium rebounding ability for his size and position, steals and is already an All Defense player.

I will disagree with you here. Only time will tell who is right. But I was right before when I said that White was better than Murray.

[K...]

Walker, while brimming with potential, is NOT better than Dejounte. LW IV projects as a deadeye shooter, passable distributor, and passable defender. The one thing that gives me pause about him is that he scores, and drops a few dimes, and that's really it. He's a sub par rebounder for his size and athletic ability. He's not a ball hawk on defense, nor does he block shots. He really fills two spots in the box score: points and maybe a few assists. He's pretty much the definition of an off the bench scorer.

Dejounte fills up the box score across the line, points, assists, premium rebounding ability for his size and position, steals and is already an All Defense player.

Hmm, points and assists, like a PG!

[exstatic]

I will disagree with you here. Only time will tell who is right. But I was right before when I said that White was better than Murray.

Better at some things (shooting, distributing) not better at others ( rebounding, defending).

Through their first season and half, or so

Dejounte W/S 3.2 VORP 1.2
Derrick W/S 3.5 VORP 1.2

Per 36
Dejounte P:13.7 A:4.9 R:8.7
Derrick P:14.0 A:5.1 R:5.3