Mavs: Dirk is retiring

[Kim Jong-il]

Manu came off the bench a large portion of his career and still torches Dirk. Put Manu on a different team as "the guy" with minutes, and we aren't even entertaining this conversation.

He had plenty of chances to do that and was too big a pussy to try

[DAF86]

People talking about the suppossed glass body of a man that played professional basketball from age 18 to 40.

[FkLA]

1. Historically a lot of playoff series are won on costly mistakes like Manu did in '06. A year earlier Rasheed Wallace made a dumb mistake of double teaming Manu and leaving Horry open for the game winner. Going by your logic the Spurs don't deserve credit for that '05 le since they benefited from Rasheed's costly mistake. Bottom line you just don't want to give credit. You come across as bitter as Laker fans did when the Spurs beat them in '99 and '03. Not a good look.

Oh ok, so you can say "he could've had 3 rings if he just didn't choke in 06 and 07" as if those chokes don't actually detract from his legacy not add to it but I can't bring up Manu's foul or else it's hate?

2. Scottie definitely was not an MVP level player in '94-'95 season. During that year he put up great numbers but could not lead the bulls to playing above .500 basketball. Things were so bad that the bulls were below .500 when MJ came back with about 20 some games left. But then again that's probably type of record Manu would lead his team to if he didn't have the luxury of playing with Duncan.

Uh, let's see Scottie was 3rd in MVP voting in 93-94. Led the Bulls to the 3rd seed. But yeah, let's just ignore that. Real objective.

Yeah, Manu would have led a sub .500 team without prime Duncan. Just like he did in the Olympics? Or when TD first started his decline, before he lost all the weight and transformed himself into a great role player? Right?

3. at the 2 way player bs argument. Jimmy Butler is a much better 2 way player than Durant but nobody would be stupid to say he's better than Durant. Going by your logic Butler is better than both Curry and Durant.

Who told you Jimmy Butler is a better two way player than Durbeta? Butler isn't even a tier one guy. He's like a third tier star. Stop with the dumb comparisons.

1. Dirk ended the Lakers run much like Duncan did in '03. He slammed the door shut on them. Lakers were the favorites to win that series and had HCA. Dirk was huge game 1 of the series. He was super clutch in the 4th quarter of game 1. In the final minute of the game he scored 4 points to put the Mavs ahead 96-94 over the Lakers in a nail biter. In game 2 of that series he came up huge from start to finish and lead the Mavs to a double digit win over the Lakers. If you don't remember the Lakers were heavy favorites to 3 peat. The only team people felt could beat them back then was the newly form Heatles.

2. Again you sound as pathetic as Laker fans when they make excuses for losing to the Spurs in '03. They say stuff you say "Spurs only won because we were at the end of run and our guys were tired. We didn't have Rick Fox. Blah Blah."

Sure, it was a nice accomplishment but don't be dramatic about it. As a Spurs fan, I'm not going to stand here and act like the Lakers team that the Spurs beat in '03 didn't fall off some from the dominant ass '01 team. Why are you trying so hard to prop up Dirk?

3. OKC in '11 was as good as they were in '12. The only difference was Dirk straight up annihilated them by averaging 32.2 points on 55 percent shooting. The Spurs incarnation from '11-'14 didn't have anybody that could straight up put up the numbers Dirk did against them. It took a team effort to beat them in '14 lead by Duncan-Manu-#2. But none of those 3 guys were as dominant as Dirk was against them in '11.

Dude, they were an 8th seed in 2010. 4th seed in 2011. 2nd seed and eventual Western Conference champs in 2012. Their big three+Abaka were still young. It's common sense that they were still developing. Were the Warriors we beat in 2013 the same monsters they ended up becoming in 2015? Of course not. Don't be dumb.

[Fat Brandon Bass]

Who told you Jimmy Butler is a better two way player than Durbeta? Butler isn't even a tier one guy. He's like a third tier star. Stop with the dumb comparisons.

Oh man, the irony

[Bynumite]

Imagine comparing roleplayers coming off the bench to franchise players

Lou Williams v Manu should be the topic of this thread tbh.

[FkLA]

Manufan have always used the inherently flawed premise that all of his advanced stats/efficiency would have stayed the same if hed been the #1 option on another team and his usage was way up, if he ever had to carry the load Dirk carried for over a decade his brittle bones would have shattered

This notion that Manu was some Anthony Davis-esque china doll is false. The dude played year around for like 15 years and ended up playing+being a net positive player past 40. You don't do that by being a fragile china doll. Yeah, he doesn't make it past 40 if he carries the load of a #1 for all those years (or if he does he looks just as done as Dirk did the past few years)...but he has a dominant 8-10 year run with plenty of individual accolades during his prime.

[Will Hunting]

Manu came off the bench a large portion of his career and still torches Dirk. Put Manu on a different team as "the guy" with minutes, and we aren't even entertaining this conversation.

Agreed, he’s have broken his foot 10 games in

[FkLA]

Oh man, the irony

Get back to me when Butler closes for 4 le teams and countless other elite, non- le teams. Or when he leads a bunch of Prigionis to gold.

[FkLA]

The thing is if I say "well Manu has 4 rings, Dirk only has 1" the first thing someone will bring up is cir stances. Manu had Duncan, etc. Which is fair but if you say "Dirk's individual accolades trump Manu's" why can't I point to cir stances as well? Team success wise having Duncan helped Manu but individually it hurt him. That's just logical.

[Kim Jong-il]

Oh man, the irony

[DAF86]

It really is baffling that folks are so obtuse that can't see Manu had all the tools to be a number one guy on the NBA. , he was Indeed the number one option for the Spurs in multiple seasons, folks just want to ignore that fact for some reason.

If Harden wasn't traded, he would still be averaging 16 ppg and people would think Westbrook is on a superior tier than him.

[Kim Jong-il]

It really is baffling that folks are so obtuse that can't see Manu had all the tools to be a number one guy on the NBA. , he was Indeed the number one option for the Spurs un multiple seasons, folks just want to ignore that fact for some reason.

If Harden wasn't traded, he would still be averaging 16 ppg and people would think Westbrook is on a superior tier than him.

ifs and buts

[Kim Jong-il]

Amazing that Spurs fans will on Duncan’s legacy just to win a re ed Manu argument.

[Will Hunting]

This notion that Manu was some Anthony Davis-esque china doll is false. The dude played year around for like 15 years and ended up playing+being a net positive player past 40. You don't do that by being a fragile china doll. Yeah, he doesn't make it past 40 if he carries the load of a #1 for all those years (or if he does he looks just as done as Dirk did the past few years)...but he has a dominant 8-10 year run with plenty of individual accolades during his prime.

He averaged 25 minutes a game (mostly agains the other teams 2nd unit), of course he played into his 40s.

[FkLA]

Amazing that Spurs fans will on Duncan’s legacy just to win a re ed Manu argument.

Duncan is the GOAT PF, player of his generation, and Top 5 player ever. Try again bruh.

[FkLA]

He averaged 25 minutes a game (mostly agains the other teams 2nd unit), of course he played into his 40s.

And played international ball during the Summers for how many years? Add those minutes+all those playoff minutes courtesy of all the deep playoff runs and his minutes per year were probably more than Dirk.

[DAF86]

Manu in his prime on today's NBA would be a top 5 player in the league, tbh.

[Will Hunting]

And played international ball during the Summers for how many years? Add those minutes+all those playoff minutes courtesy of all the deep playoff runs and his minutes per year were probably more than Dirk.

Probably or were? Cmon Juan, provide some actual numbers to back up that claim.

[Will Hunting]

Manu in his prime on today's NBA would be a top 5 player in the league, tbh.

More what ifs and hypotheticals.

[DAF86]

More what ifs and hypotheticals.

Manu is one of the greatest basketball players of all time. No ifs or hypotheticals.

[Will Hunting]

Manu is one of the greatest basketball players of all time. No ifs or hypotheticals.

Sure no ifs or hypotheticals, just opinions involving vague and non-descript adjectives.

[Fat Brandon Bass]

It really is baffling that folks are so obtuse that can't see Manu had all the tools to be a number one guy on the NBA. , he was Indeed the number one option for the Spurs in multiple seasons, folks just want to ignore that fact for some reason.

If Harden wasn't traded, he would still be averaging 16 ppg and people would think Westbrook is on a superior tier than him.

Please define what that means and provide facts that shows when was the "number one option" for the Spurs. I see that Manu never led the team in scoring in any of his seasons. First, you had Duncan as the obvious alpha for so long, then Parker bridges the gap and is the leading scorer until Kawhi comes along and fills the alpha role.

, out of all four of those guys all of them but Manu got to be the lead dog for atleast a season. Manu was literally a Robin his whole career

[DAF86]

Sure no ifs or hypotheticals, just opinions involving vague and non-descript adjectives.

4 NBA championships and 1 Olympic gold as a top player of his teams. There really aren't much clearer non vague criterias than that, tbh.

[Will Hunting]

4 NBA championships and 1 Olympic gold as a top player of his teams. There really aren't much clearer non vague criterias than that, tbh.

Wasn’t the top player on any of the 4 NBA championships. Fake news, tbh.

[DAF86]

Please define what that means and provide facts that shows when was the "number one option" for the Spurs. I see that Manu never led the team in scoring in any of his seasons. First, you had Duncan as the obvious alpha for so long, then Parker bridges the gap and is the leading scorer until Kawhi comes along and fills the alpha role.

, out of all four of those guys all of them but Manu got to be the lead dog for atleast a season. Manu was literally a Robin his whole career

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../SAS/2008.html

Well, that was easy.