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  1. #1
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Watching Nugs and Blazers chuck one brick after another, and yet the score is still in the healthy mid 80's early in the fourth. And I realize the score is that high cos they're just chucking early in the shot clock. If they pulled this sh** against real teams of yesterday, man sh** would get real. Said teams would kill them in the post and get up 20 and then just slow the pace and then get more rebounds cos they're not playing four or five guards against chuckers to take further control. Sh** wouldn't even be funny, tbh.

  2. #2
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    I mean yeah yesterdays team would kill todays team, litterally. That's probably the only way they can prevent modern teams (with their heightened skills) from scoring anyway.

    Nice Job derp.

  3. #3
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    I mean yeah yesterdays team would kill todays team, litterally. That's probably the only way they can prevent modern teams (with their heightened skills) from scoring anyway.

    Nice Job derp.
    BS. 86 C's would carve up any of these teams. 109-109 in double OT is Blazers/Nuggets even with increased pace. That would be called middle of the fourth quarter back in the day.

  4. #4
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    I don't think yesterday's teams beat today's teams, not because yesterday's players are inherently worse, but because they would just get completely outshot from 3. Even in the 80s, the 3 was still seen as a last resort shot. People's memories of Bird are of as a 3 point centric player, but he was actually a midpost player. He averaged only 1.9 three attempts per game over his career.

    They didn't practice the 3 ball like they do today. We can theorize that yesterday's teams would have an advantage in the post, but today's teams have defending the low-post down to a science, thus the lower overall efficiency of modern post play. This matchup gets a lot more interesting if you take away the 3 pointer, though.

    Today's basketball is certainly more unwatchable. The most unwatchable era in modern NBA history for my money. I don't even care if the 90s were "ugly basketball." At least it was physical and attritional, with every score seeming to matter more. Today's game is a "free flowing," flopping, chuck fest that really does look like rec league basketball.

  5. #5
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    I don't think yesterday's teams beat today's teams, not because yesterday's players are inherently worse, but because they would just get completely outshot from 3. Even in the 80s, the 3 was still seen as a last resort shot. People's memories of Bird are of as a 3 point centric player, but he was actually a midpost player. He averaged only 1.9 three attempts per game over his career.

    They didn't practice the 3 ball like they do today. We can theorize that yesterday's teams would have an advantage in the post, but today's teams have defending the low-post down to a science, thus the lower overall efficiency of modern post play. This matchup gets a lot more interesting if you take away the 3 pointer, though.

    Today's basketball is certainly more unwatchable. The most unwatchable era in modern NBA history for my money. I don't even care if the 90s were "ugly basketball." At least it was physical and attritional, with every score seeming to matter more. Today's game is a "free flowing," flopping, chuck fest that really does look like rec league basketball.
    Well, first off we've seen that players can quickly become good at the three. See Brook Lopez. Kevin McHale did it in the early 90's for instance. But my point is that the older teams could dominate the interior and these chuckers would get exposed quickly anyways. Can you imagine today's teams trying to stop The Big Three along with Walton. Geez, they'd literally have games wherein they shot 70 or 80 FG % from the field.

  6. #6
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    3 point shooting isn't consistent over a 7-game series. Post play is. I'll bleed you to death with layups and 5 footers.

  7. #7
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    I don't think yesterday's teams beat today's teams, not because yesterday's players are inherently worse, but because they would just get completely outshot from 3. Even in the 80s, the 3 was still seen as a last resort shot. People's memories of Bird are of as a 3 point centric player, but he was actually a midpost player. He averaged only 1.9 three attempts per game over his career.

    They didn't practice the 3 ball like they do today. We can theorize that yesterday's teams would have an advantage in the post, but today's teams have defending the low-post down to a science, thus the lower overall efficiency of modern post play. This matchup gets a lot more interesting if you take away the 3 pointer, though.

    Today's basketball is certainly more unwatchable. The most unwatchable era in modern NBA history for my money. I don't even care if the 90s were "ugly basketball." At least it was physical and attritional, with every score seeming to matter more. Today's game is a "free flowing," flopping, chuck fest that really does look like rec league basketball.
    Depends if they play with hand checking today's teams would funfair it harder to get space

  8. #8
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Depends if they play with hand checking today's teams would funfair it harder to get space
    Not sure if handchecking is enough to offset all of the illegal screens and push offs that today’s players use to create space.

  9. #9
    Celibacy for life Mark Celibate's Avatar
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    I don't think yesterday's teams beat today's teams, not because yesterday's players are inherently worse, but because they would just get completely outshot from 3. Even in the 80s, the 3 was still seen as a last resort shot. People's memories of Bird are of as a 3 point centric player, but he was actually a midpost player. He averaged only 1.9 three attempts per game over his career.

    They didn't practice the 3 ball like they do today. We can theorize that yesterday's teams would have an advantage in the post, but today's teams have defending the low-post down to a science, thus the lower overall efficiency of modern post play. This matchup gets a lot more interesting if you take away the 3 pointer, though.

    Today's basketball is certainly more unwatchable. The most unwatchable era in modern NBA history for my money. I don't even care if the 90s were "ugly basketball." At least it was physical and attritional, with every score seeming to matter more. Today's game is a "free flowing," flopping, chuck fest that really does look like rec league basketball.
    Curious what you mean by that.

    Just from watching the NBA over the years and my somewhat limited experience in the AAU ranks, I thought the "death of the big man" was the combination of the growth of the three point era, but also the widespread notion that it was better to be "versatile" and expand your game as a low post player. I noticed this starting in the mid 00's and maybe Dirk/KG/Rasheed Wallace had something to do with it. All of a sudden, just being a low post player who could only score inside wasn't enough. All AAU high schoolers had a hive mindset that they were somehow harder to guard by jacking up a few threes of a game. Instead of being a jack of all trades, they became master of none.

    Nowadays of course, unless you have a special talent like Shaq/Duncan everyone knows a team that centers their offensive philosophy on low post scoring will just get run out of the gym over the course of four quarters. I actually think the Lebron Heat were the first team to kill the idea of the big man being an important part of a le team. Obviously Lebron, Wade were the superstars, but they routinely put Battier on other team's best low post scorers and he was somewhat effective by constantly fronting the post man. It was too much of a chore to force it inside only for Lebron to just bully his way to an easy basket or kick it open to a wide open three point shooter on the other end. IMO, they actually were the first team to play small ball effectively right before the Warriors
    Last edited by Mark Celibate; 05-04-2019 at 10:17 PM.

  10. #10
    36/7/7
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    Just think about it this way: Steve Kerr was a regular player in big playoff games in the 90s.

    If he were suiting up today for GSW, do you think he would be on the court at the same time as Harden and CP3? What do you think's gonna happen?

  11. #11
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    Just think about it this way: Steve Kerr was a regular player in big playoff games in the 90s.

    If he were suiting up today for GSW, do you think he would be on the court at the same time as Harden and CP3? What do you think's gonna happen?
    Kerr himself said he would have never reached the NBA today

  12. #12
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Curious what you mean by that.

    Just from watching the NBA over the years and my somewhat limited experience in the AAU ranks, I thought the "death of the big man" was the combination of the growth of the three point era, but also the widespread notion that it was better to be "versatile" and expand your game as a low post player. I noticed this starting in the mid 00's and maybe Dirk/KG/Rasheed Wallace had something to do with it. All of a sudden, just being a low post player who could only score inside wasn't enough. All AAU high schoolers had a hive mindset that they were somehow harder to guard by jacking up a few threes of a game. Instead of being a jack of all trades, they became master of none.

    Nowadays of course, unless you have a special talent like Shaq/Duncan everyone knows a team that centers their offensive philosophy on low post scoring will just get run out of the gym over the course of four quarters. I actually think the Lebron Heat were the first team to kill the idea of the big man being an important part of a le team. Obviously Lebron, Wade were the superstars, but they routinely put Battier on other team's best low post scorers and he was somewhat effective by constantly fronting the post man. It was too much of a chore to force it inside only for Lebron to just bully his way to an easy basket or kick it open to a wide open three point shooter on the other end. IMO, they actually were the first team to play small ball effectively right before the Warriors
    Around 2012ish, swarming low post bigs became a more viable strategy than playing them straight or even double teaming them in a traditional fashion. See this quick drill here.



    The tall player at the FT line is your post player and notice how they're constantly keeping a double team on him with a 3rd and even 4th help defenders on both the weak and strong sides if need be. In the past, a post player could conceivably punish a swarm with timely passing to shooters, but as this drill shows, modern teams have gotten really good at simultaneously defending the post while being able to quickly close on open shooters.

    Moving the line back probably brings traditional post-play back because I don't think teams would be able to close onto 29 feet from defending the post (which NBA still shoot 30 percent from, which I think is a relatively balanced percentage) like they're able to close out on 23 feet. Dirk is a good example of a balanced "shooting" big. He's kind of gotten the Bird rep over the years as 3 point guy, but he didn't really take that many (career 3.4 per game). His money range was 16-22 feet. If Dirk was a rookie today, they would force him to eliminate that part of his game and turn him into a chucking stretch 4. For example, Dirk shot from 16-22 31 percent of the time over his career. Doncic shoots from that area .042 percent of the time, while shooting from downtown 43 percent of the time.

    I'm okay with bigs being specialized to only score in the post/midpost. Modern NBA demands they all basically play like perimeter players ("positionless basketball"). It gives basketball more variety when players have different roles and skillsets. We already see the Currys, Hardens, and other perimeter players dribble and chuck enough. Now we have Joel Embiid averaging more 3s per game than Dirk. I'm not sure what you do with a player like Shaq today. And midrange bigs like Malone, Dirk, etc would all be turned into "stretch forwards."

  13. #13
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Kerr himself said he would have never reached the NBA today
    On the other side of the debate, Lou Williams is probably Boobie Gibson level 10-15 years ago (actually, he basically was . Forgot how long he's played).

  14. #14
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Just think about it this way: Steve Kerr was a regular player in big playoff games in the 90s.

    If he were suiting up today for GSW, do you think he would be on the court at the same time as Harden and CP3? What do you think's gonna happen?
    Kerr would be an All Star in today's NBA

    50% three pointer shooter in the seasons he played 20 minutes per game

  15. #15
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    Kerr would be an All Star in today's NBA

    50% three pointer shooter in the seasons he played 20 minutes per game
    Agreed

  16. #16
    Veteran Bynumite's Avatar
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    JJ Re is a starter in a playoff that's close to making the ECF. Kerr and Re are about the same height and both elite spot up shooters, Re with more minutes and higher usage of course.

    Tbh it's not some far-fatched idea to think Kerr could at least make his way to the league in today's nba.

  17. #17
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    JJ Re is a starter in a playoff that's close to making the ECF. Kerr and Re are about the same height and both elite spot up shooters, Re with more minutes and higher usage of course.

    Tbh it's not some far-fatched idea to think Kerr could at least make his way to the league in today's nba.
    Kerr a better shooter and dribbler, tbh.

  18. #18
    Believe.
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    Spurs are still trying that and they went home in RD 1. It just doesn't work in today's unbalanced game.

    3 point shooting isn't consistent over a 7-game series. Post play is. I'll bleed you to death with layups and 5 footers.

  19. #19
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Spurs are still trying that and they went home in RD 1. It just doesn't work in today's unbalanced game.
    Not sure 2019 Spurs are a good example. Their opponent had the best player on the court by a significant margin

  20. #20
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Gm 4 Rockets 17-50 3FG
    Gm 4 Warriors 8-33

    Bird would wax the floor with these es, tbh.

  21. #21
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    Gm 4 Rockets 17-50 3FG
    Gm 4 Warriors 8-33

    Bird would wax the floor with these es, tbh.
    Mark Price and Abdul Rauf unanimous MVPs every year
    Craig Ehlo and Charlie Adams would be all stars every year
    Danny Ainge would have a deal with a rap record label

  22. #22
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Celts 4-23 3FG at half and they're still in the game.

  23. #23
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Today's basketball is godawful. Celts/Mavs was terrible . Just watching chucking and the lane wide open. Such ing garbage. This isn't the analytics era; this is the bull era.

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