You never fail to impress me with your re ation in any debate. I just in laid it out for you that Jordan would average MORE points than Kawhi if they took the same amount of shots from the same areas. You've obviously only been watching basketball since 2014, but there was a time when three point shooting wasn't valued. You can't punish Jordan for playing in a different era when three pointers were a last resort shot. Are you this dumb in thinking that a player who took 20 two pointers and 2 three pointers can be as efficient as a player who takes 12 two pointers and 8 three pointers?So, you are literally supporting my claim that Jordan averaged more points per 100 possession b/c he took MORE shots.
Let's work the math again. Both players shoot 50 percent from the field for all the shots. Player A averages 23 points while player B averages 24 points taking two fewer shots. Jordan's career TS is .569, which is a stellar mark for every era in NBA history but the last 5 years. Again, the league wide TS is .560. Math. Learn how it works. Kawhi isn't more efficient than Jordan because he's a better offensive player. He's more efficient because he takes more 3s in an time that encourages it. Threes weren't encouraged then.
Remind me what Kyle Lowry did in game 6 of the NBA Finals to win Toronto their first championship.Remind me what happened to Lowry when he played against a team that didn't dare him to shoot: https://www.basketball-reference.com...s-raptors.html
As long as he didn't do it in the Purp 'n Gold.
As a Dallas fan, what made the Dirk run even more impressive was the narrative and the situation behind it. Dirk was 32 years old in 2011, an age when players are expected to have declined from their athletic absolute prime. The team around him was a bunch of cast-offs and has beens that no one took seriously. He had lost Caron Butler, the second best scorer he had in his team in the last 7-8 years, and they were facing a bunch of superteams with home court advantage.
He couldn't go all out, he certainly wasn't the 05-07 player which could run around all day. But he'd become a master of short bursts that would kill the game. Technically he mastered every shot and every corner, but he had to reserve his energy. And most of the time he would facilitate the game until the 4th quarter, and then completely take over. So yes, statistically there might have been better runs. But considering his age, his team, his opponents, and the way he seemed unarguable by anyone in the 4th, made that a truly legendary run.
In that respect, I think narrative matters for Kawhi as well. He certainly had a much deeper team that Dirk's, but there were no other elite scorers. He had to force the issue at times and take too many shots, but they wouldn't have survived the Sixers otherwise. No one in his team, and the league for that matter, could do something against Giannis until he stepped up. His finals were so-so, with no great moments and hurt opponents. But what he did against the Sixers and Bucks, who I think clearly should be recognized by now as very talented teams, deserves a lot of respect.
SMH - Kiwi is all class
Y'all ed up real bad. Should have deported LMA. Admit that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!
As if there was a choice in the matter? Yeah, we " ed up" because Kawhi insisted on leaving. That makes a lot of sense.Y'all ed up real bad. Should have deported LMA. Admit that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!
I'm trying to imagine what you could possibly mean by that. Are you saying that we should have traded Aldridge back in 2016? That doesn't make sense either, because at that time there was no reason to think we had to choose "one or the other," and it was impossible to foresee that he would get injured in 2017. So what are you even saying?
You always have a choice: KEEP your ing star.
Kobe ed and complained about playing on Pluto rather than continue playing with the likes of Smush, Kwame, etc. Dr. Buss said he didn't give a John Clawd Van Damn what Kobe says - he ain't trading him. It did, however, wake up our FO. Then they got Kobe some help by the name of MVPau.
Spurs PATFO should have stood firm with their young frustrated star. You guys also publicly and arrogantly disrespected Kiwi though. If I were Pop, I would have swallowed my MAGA mentality pride and publicly apologized to him. I would not have traded him under ANY cir stances.
Some African booty scratcher GM fleeced you guys too. No Siakim, no OG, not even Powell. Instead, MAGA Pop demanded Poetl. And now I hear DD might be on the trading block.
But yeah, watching Kiwi rang in another team's jersey must really make MAGA Pop feel real good about treating him how a privileged White man in power always treated Blacks. This time he didn't get away with that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
Why are you calling him MAGA Pop? Dude has been more critical of Trump than any other player or coach in any sport.You always have a choice: KEEP your ing star.
Kobe ed and complained about playing on Pluto rather than continue playing with the likes of Smush, Kwame, etc. Dr. Buss said he didn't give a John Clawd Van Damn what Kobe says - he ain't trading him. It did, however, wake up our FO. Then they got Kobe some help by the name of MVPau.
Spurs PATFO should have stood firm with their young frustrated star. You guys also publicly and arrogantly disrespected Kiwi though. If I were Pop, I would have swallowed my MAGA mentality pride and publicly apologized to him. I would not have traded him under ANY cir stances.
Some African booty scratcher GM fleeced you guys too. No Siakim, no OG, not even Powell. Instead, MAGA Pop demanded Poetl. And now I hear DD might be on the trading block.
But yeah, watching Kiwi rang in another team's jersey must really make MAGA Pop feel real good about treating him how a privileged White man in power always treated Blacks. This time he didn't get away with that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
Speaking of Horry, he bailed out Duncan in 05, so....
You're assuming that Kawhi would have just "come around" eventually and changed his mind. His mind was already made up, and no one could change it. Kawhi has a very different mind from Kobe or anyone else, so the analogy doesn't work.You always have a choice: KEEP your ing star.
Kobe ed and complained about playing on Pluto rather than continue playing with the likes of Smush, Kwame, etc. Dr. Buss said he didn't give a John Clawd Van Damn what Kobe says - he ain't trading him. It did, however, wake up our FO. Then they got Kobe some help by the name of MVPau.
Spurs PATFO should have stood firm with their young frustrated star. You guys also publicly and arrogantly disrespected Kiwi though. If I were Pop, I would have swallowed my MAGA mentality pride and publicly apologized to him. I would not have traded him under ANY cir stances.
Some African booty scratcher GM fleeced you guys too. No Siakim, no OG, not even Powell. Instead, MAGA Pop demanded Poetl. And now I hear DD might be on the trading block.
But yeah, watching Kiwi rang in another team's jersey must really make MAGA Pop feel real good about treating him how a privileged White man in power always treated Blacks. This time he didn't get away with that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
Look at it this way...the Spurs set him free. They allowed him to go win a ring somewhere else. You're right, it was a choice...and they chose to do the right thing.
Is he old? Is he white? Is he rich? Yes, yes, and yes. Guarantee you he conservative and well entrenched with the GOP.
Most GOPs don't like Trump, but they are benefitting from his bull - especially his new Tax scam - so they don't 86 his ass.
MAGA Pop ain't no different tbh. He treated Kiwi like property more so than like a man he respected. Most negros hate that . He's had soft brothas on his roster that wouldn't dare step to him. He misjudged Kiwi and it cost the Spurs at least 2-3 more rangs. Kiwi is that good.
Pop was dismissive of his best player telling him he's hurt. Pop chose the word of company men (team docs who are on their payroll) over a player that knows his body. He should have backed Kiwi up privately and publicly. That broke the trust Kiwi had with the Spurs. You right about his mind being made up. Who could blame him when Pop even had his brothers in arm (Manure and TP) publicly disparaging him.
He already rang. His ultimate revenge would be to join the Kang in LA to win multiple les - just to spite MAGA Pop - and make me happy
Except Kobe didn't leave for a year and not even attend the playoffs. Talking trade because of performance is one thing, AWOL is another.You always have a choice: KEEP your ing star.
Kobe ed and complained about playing on Pluto rather than continue playing with the likes of Smush, Kwame, etc. Dr. Buss said he didn't give a John Clawd Van Damn what Kobe says - he ain't trading him. It did, however, wake up our FO. Then they got Kobe some help by the name of MVPau.
Spurs PATFO should have stood firm with their young frustrated star. You guys also publicly and arrogantly disrespected Kiwi though. If I were Pop, I would have swallowed my MAGA mentality pride and publicly apologized to him. I would not have traded him under ANY cir stances.
Some African booty scratcher GM fleeced you guys too. No Siakim, no OG, not even Powell. Instead, MAGA Pop demanded Poetl. And now I hear DD might be on the trading block.
But yeah, watching Kiwi rang in another team's jersey must really make MAGA Pop feel real good about treating him how a privileged White man in power always treated Blacks. This time he didn't get away with that shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
Kobe was relatively faithful to LA, but not to Vanessa. Kobe and Amy would make a great couple.
This is why you're a legend around these parts!
With Parker sexting the out of her.This is why you're a legend around these parts!
Spurs werent winning les with Kawhi, not with that roster. The construction of it is stuck in the early 10s. You guys forget how impactful Kyle Lowry is. He's a perennial top 10 player in the league via RPM. Spurs have Patty Mills and some d-leaguers as their PG rotation.
hur durr fisher has 5 chips. thats disingenuous dude. kawhi has 2 championships and was finals mvp both times
Based on your logic Shaq would have a better TS% if 3 point shooting was encouraged in the 90s/2000s
1) Kawhi is the ONLY player in postseason HISTORY to shoot 50% from the field & 40% from 3 for his career. He isn't a chucker like Harden who shoots 10/30 every other game....
2) Jordan played in an era where players weren't guarded at the 3 point line, they actually shortened it in the mid 90s
3) Shooting 3s in harder than shooting long 2s thus if Kawhi shot more 2s then his FG% would actually be higher thus you can't have your cake & eat it too when it comes to TS%.
Remind me what Jason Terry did in Gm 6 of the '11 Finals to CARRY virgin Dork to his first chip (He was actually being guarded by LeBron instead of TOBS Cousins/Looney).Remind me what Kyle Lowry did in game 6 of the NBA Finals to win Toronto their first championship.
Kawhi absolutely murked LeBron after the series was tied 1-1 going to Miami. You know when kawhi "fades".......
kawhi was finals MVP and was dueling the best player in the world at his peak. was the spurs leading scorer in the game 3, 4, and 5 wins to seal the series. he wasn't just some utility player like horry. thats a ty comparison and you know better tbh
Shaq might have a higher TS if shooting 3s were encouraged. Again, since you've only been watching basketball since '14, you forget how players like Brook Lopez and such barely considered the 3 pointer, but turned themselves into big man 3 point threats as the game turned into Twitterball. Fun fact: Lopez averaged exactly 0.0 3PA from his rookie year up until 2014. He raised his 3PA to a 0.1 markBased on your logic Shaq would have a better TS% if 3 point shooting was encouraged in the 90s/2000s
1) Kawhi is the ONLY player in postseason HISTORY to shoot 50% from the field & 40% from 3 for his career. He isn't a chucker like Harden who shoots 10/30 every other game....
2) Jordan played in an era where players weren't guarded at the 3 point line, they actually shortened it in the mid 90s
3) Shooting 3s in harder than shooting long 2s thus if Kawhi shot more 2s then his FG% would actually be higher thus you can't have your cake & eat it too when it comes to TS%.
Post stats showing me players weren't guarded at the 3 point line. If Brook Lopez can turn himself into a 35 percent 3 shooter, I don't think Jordan has much problem turning himself into a high percentage 3 point threat.
Your last point confirms what I'm saying. If Jordan took 3 or 4 more 3s per game in lieu of long twos, his TS would be much higher, especially in this era where you can't breathe on perimeter players. In any event, your argument is still with the arbitrary, "Kawhi is 3rd on points scored on X TS percentage," because Kawhi plays in an era with the highest league wide TS in history. As I've shown, Kawhi's points plus efficiency stat over a le run ranks 3rd just in the past 3 years, behind Curry and Durant, further confirming how "not" all-time great this run was. In addition, his on/off ranks now ranks behind Dirk's '11 run, placing it 8th since 2011.
Not. An. All. Time. Great. Run. I await another Kobefan deflection that refers to supporting casts, defensive tactics, opponent strength, etc.
Last edited by midnightpulp; 06-14-2019 at 08:53 PM.
Yeah, Philo, and didn't I credit him for that in the OP? But still, Lkrfan was trying to use the cut-and-dry rings argument. Kawhi did not have a lead dog level run over the entire playoffs. Against the Thunder: 11.8 on .412. Against the Mavs: 11.9 on .492. Those series were tougher than the Miami series. And his performances in those games were basically role player level numbers. Duncan was still the team's primary engine. What don't you get?
rings aren't created equal... and imo the argument applies if you were a critical component of those teams (not somebody who is a role player that happened to hit a big shot here and there). kawhi led the spurs in most advanced stats (ORPM, DRPM, BPM, VORP etc) in both the regular season and postseason.
duncan was certainly the rock of the team, but kawhi took them to a different level when it mattered most (aka at the time you predict he would choke)
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