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  1. #151
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    if raps lose kawhi then they'll be more active than PATFO.

    i appreciate how do or die "contenders" were by making moves. raps, bucks, 6ers.

  2. #152
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Bojan Bogdanovic makes a ton of sense for the Spurs. He's a great shooter and offball player who can get hot and drop 35 in a game. His stats last season are slightly worse but close to DeRozan's numbers, but with way better 3-point shooting. I can see Pop running him through multiple picks to free him up for the open 3 as well as running some hammer action. Spurs could use a lot of plays they used to run for Danny on Bogdanovic. Besides that he can also run the pick & roll and get to the rim and is a good passer. His defense is a little underrated, he's not a traffic cone like Belinelli, but he's also not a great defender. I would say he's average, but when engaged can be solid on D. The Pacers had him guard LeBron in the 2018 playoffs and he did a decent job on him.

    The other thing is that he THINKS the Spurs will ship out DeRozan to free up cap space for Bogdanovic, but there are other options. They might as well want to make the team more compe ive for a deeper run in the playoffs and add him to the Aldridge/DeRozan pairing. After Oladipo went down Bojan became the Pacers first option which wass a role that is to big for him, but as a 3rd option he'd be great.

    The one problem I see with adding Bogdanovic is that he's not a combo forward. He's not a 4 and since he's not that good of a defender you would like to have a defensive player at PF. Bertans and Gay are far from that. A Thad Young or Marcus Morris would be perfect next to Bojan. Salary cap wise that gets tricky. If you want that SF/PF combo you'll need like 28-30 million in cap space, so you have to move DeMar. If you want to add Bogdanovic to the Aldridge/DeRozan pairing you can not sign a defensive 4 unless you make further trades to free up salary. To see the Spurs make 2-4 trades in the offseason would be considered an anomaly tbh. Besides that they'd most likely have to renounce Rudy which means he would leave.

    I've been saying that Bogdanovic + one of Thad Young or Marcus Morris would make the team way better than having DeRozan. Potential teams interested in DeRozan could be Hornets, Nets, Lakers, Suns, Knicks, Heat, Pacers depending on who they sign/miss out on in free agency.


    Scenario 1:

    Spurs trade DeMar DeRozan for a draft pick to get after one of Hunter/Reddish/Little/Hachimura.

    Spurs sign Bojan Bogdanovic (15-18 million)

    Depending on which pick DeRozan nets them Spurs have about 10-15 million in cap space left if they renounce Rudy's cap hold. They could then go after Thad Young or Marcus Morris or they keep Gay's cap hold and just resign him.

    That would leave them with the Room Mid-Level Exception to add some more free agents/bring over Euro players (Milutinov)


    Scenario 2:

    Spurs do a sign and trade with the Pacers. DeRozan for Bogdanovic and Thad Young. The Pacers are a deep team, they are looking for a go to guy and after Oladipo's injury they'd probably be interested in DeRozan. Spurs get a good forward pairing that knows how to play together.

    The thing is: Why would the Spurs trade DeRozan to get a bunch of free agents when they could just salary dump him and get an extra pick in the draft? Both Bogdanovic and Young are free agents and can be signed with the created cap space like in the option above. The Pacers only have the 18th pick, so even if they add that to the package Spurs could at least get a pick in the lower lottery for DeRozan. The thing that would benefit them in this scenario is that they'd still have bird rights on Gay and could resign him by going over the cap while also having the MLE available to add to the roster.


    Scenario 3:

    Spurs trade Davis Bertans and 19th pick to move up a few spots in the draft to draft one of Little/Hachimura

    Spurs trade Marco Belinelli and 49th pick for a 2nd rounder in the early to mid 30s to draft one of the better 2nd round prospects like Okeke for example. Belinelli and 49th for one of the 76ers 33rd or 34th pick would make a lot of sense for both teams.

    Spurs renounce Rudy Gay. That would leave us with roughly 15-17 million in cap space. That's exactly what you would need to sign Bogdanovic.

    That leaves the team with the Room Mid-Level Exception of 4.7 million. I don't think Gay would resign for that, but who knows. I think there is a possibility to do a wink-wink type of deal with him, cause he's obviously looking to make a deep playoff run for the first time in his career, I just don't know if he will go as far as giving up 60% of his salary.


    Scenario 4:

    Spurs do the same they are doing in Scenario 3 above, but they package Bertans and Belinelli in a sign and trade with Indiana for Bogdanovic. That's the one scenario where they keep Aldridge/DeRozan/Gay and add Bogdanovic to the mix.


    Scenario 5:

    Spurs dump Patty Mills to clear cap space for Bojan Bogdanovic.

    Like I said, renounce Rudy and we got 5 million in cap space. Dump Mills 13 million and we got 18. I could see a scenario were you ship out Mills + 28th for an early 2nd round pick.

    What's left is again the Room Mid-Level Exception to sign further players.



    What the Spurs will do depends on the other moves they have planned. None of these scenarios seem ideal to me, but I like that they are supposedly looking to add some wings and wont just stand pat. The salary cap situation makes adding high quality players very difficult.

    I'd much rather somehow get rid of Mills, Bertans and Belinelli to then sign Bogdanovic + Morris and keep all 3 of Aldridge/DeRozan/Gay. Add Murray/White/Walker/Poeltl and 2 picks to the mix and that team could make a lot of noise in the west, but it's highly unrealistic RC pulls that off
    Last edited by RC_Drunkford; 06-08-2019 at 08:15 PM.

  3. #153
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    if raps lose kawhi then they'll be more active than PATFO.

    i appreciate how do or die "contenders" were by making moves. raps, bucks, 6ers.
    Or even Golden State with how they added KD to a 73 win team. Good franchises are always striving to get better and better. Meanwhile, PATFO stood pat after every le...and then they wonder why they never repeated.

  4. #154
    Veteran gambit1990's Avatar
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    from this:


    to champions. i wonder what changed...

  5. #155
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    from this:


    to champions. i wonder what changed...
    Masai flushed that turd on the left down the toilet.

  6. #156
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    Is Bojan a 15-18 million a year player? Isn’t he 30 or 31? I thought he was more in the MLE range, but shows how little I know about Pacer basketball.

  7. #157
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Is Bojan a 15-18 million a year player? Isn’t he 30 or 31? I thought he was more in the MLE range, but shows how little I know about Pacer basketball.
    He was, but not after averaging over 18 points per game. I expect him to be in that range, if Spurs can sign him for less that would be a steal

  8. #158
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    Is Bojan a 15-18 million a year player? Isn’t he 30 or 31? I thought he was more in the MLE range, but shows how little I know about Pacer basketball.
    Spurs are probably counting on their favorable reputation among European players to help sign him.

  9. #159
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    Still think Aminu makes sense defensively, being a true combo forward and financially, tbh.

  10. #160
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    He was, but not after averaging over 18 points per game. I expect him to be in that range, if Spurs can sign him for less that would be a steal

    Hes not taking less then 15 i guarantee you that

  11. #161
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    Hes not taking less then 15 i guarantee you that
    If he signs means one of Rudy or Bert is expendable, no?

  12. #162
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    I know it’s very unlikely but could the spurs give Bojan a 1 year deal worth the full mle and then the following season give him his 15-18 million dollar deal??

  13. #163
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    I know it’s very unlikely but could the spurs give Bojan a 1 year deal worth the full mle and then the following season give him his 15-18 million dollar deal??
    No, non-Bird FAs are limited to 120% of prior year’s salary. Early Bird allows you to pay them 175% but need to be somewhere two years (see KD after he opted out).

  14. #164
    Believe. Degoat's Avatar
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    No, non-Bird FAs are limited to 120% of prior year’s salary. Early Bird allows you to pay them 175% but need to be somewhere two years (see KD after he opted out).
    ahhh I see, probably a good thing I like bojan but that would be a hefty contract for him

  15. #165
    You have no idea UZER's Avatar
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    Pop running back to submissive Euros.

  16. #166
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
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    Pop running back to submissive Euros.
    Just wait until the draft.

  17. #167
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    Bojan Bogdanovic makes a ton of sense for the Spurs. He's a great shooter and offball player who can get hot and drop 35 in a game. His stats last season are slightly worse but close to DeRozan's numbers, but with way better 3-point shooting. I can see Pop running him through multiple picks to free him up for the open 3 as well as running some hammer action. Spurs could use a lot of plays they used to run for Danny on Bogdanovic. Besides that he can also run the pick & roll and get to the rim and is a good passer. His defense is a little underrated, he's not a traffic cone like Belinelli, but he's also not a great defender. I would say he's average, but when engaged can be solid on D. The Pacers had him guard LeBron in the 2018 playoffs and he did a decent job on him.

    The other thing is that he THINKS the Spurs will ship out DeRozan to free up cap space for Bogdanovic, but there are other options. They might as well want to make the team more compe ive for a deeper run in the playoffs and add him to the Aldridge/DeRozan pairing. After Oladipo went down Bojan became the Pacers first option which wass a role that is to big for him, but as a 3rd option he'd be great.

    The one problem I see with adding Bogdanovic is that he's not a combo forward. He's not a 4 and since he's not that good of a defender you would like to have a defensive player at PF. Bertans and Gay are far from that. A Thad Young or Marcus Morris would be perfect next to Bojan. Salary cap wise that gets tricky. If you want that SF/PF combo you'll need like 28-30 million in cap space, so you have to move DeMar. If you want to add Bogdanovic to the Aldridge/DeRozan pairing you can not sign a defensive 4 unless you make further trades to free up salary. To see the Spurs make 2-4 trades in the offseason would be considered an anomaly tbh. Besides that they'd most likely have to renounce Rudy which means he would leave.

    I've been saying that Bogdanovic + one of Thad Young or Marcus Morris would make the team way better than having DeRozan. Potential teams interested in DeRozan could be Hornets, Nets, Lakers, Suns, Knicks, Heat, Pacers depending on who they sign/miss out on in free agency.


    Scenario 1:

    Spurs trade DeMar DeRozan for a draft pick to get after one of Hunter/Reddish/Little/Hachimura.

    Spurs sign Bojan Bogdanovic (15-18 million)

    Depending on which pick DeRozan nets them Spurs have about 10-15 million in cap space left if they renounce Rudy's cap hold. They could then go after Thad Young or Marcus Morris or they keep Gay's cap hold and just resign him.

    That would leave them with the Room Mid-Level Exception to add some more free agents/bring over Euro players (Milutinov)


    Scenario 2:

    Spurs do a sign and trade with the Pacers. DeRozan for Bogdanovic and Thad Young. The Pacers are a deep team, they are looking for a go to guy and after Oladipo's injury they'd probably be interested in DeRozan. Spurs get a good forward pairing that knows how to play together.

    The thing is: Why would the Spurs trade DeRozan to get a bunch of free agents when they could just salary dump him and get an extra pick in the draft? Both Bogdanovic and Young are free agents and can be signed with the created cap space like in the option above. The Pacers only have the 18th pick, so even if they add that to the package Spurs could at least get a pick in the lower lottery for DeRozan. The thing that would benefit them in this scenario is that they'd still have bird rights on Gay and could resign him by going over the cap while also having the MLE available to add to the roster.


    Scenario 3:

    Spurs trade Davis Bertans and 19th pick to move up a few spots in the draft to draft one of Little/Hachimura

    Spurs trade Marco Belinelli and 49th pick for a 2nd rounder in the early to mid 30s to draft one of the better 2nd round prospects like Okeke for example. Belinelli and 49th for one of the 76ers 33rd or 34th pick would make a lot of sense for both teams.

    Spurs renounce Rudy Gay. That would leave us with roughly 15-17 million in cap space. That's exactly what you would need to sign Bogdanovic.

    That leaves the team with the Room Mid-Level Exception of 4.7 million. I don't think Gay would resign for that, but who knows. I think there is a possibility to do a wink-wink type of deal with him, cause he's obviously looking to make a deep playoff run for the first time in his career, I just don't know if he will go as far as giving up 60% of his salary.


    Scenario 4:

    Spurs do the same they are doing in Scenario 3 above, but they package Bertans and Belinelli in a sign and trade with Indiana for Bogdanovic. That's the one scenario where they keep Aldridge/DeRozan/Gay and add Bogdanovic to the mix.


    Scenario 5:

    Spurs dump Patty Mills to clear cap space for Bojan Bogdanovic.

    Like I said, renounce Rudy and we got 5 million in cap space. Dump Mills 13 million and we got 18. I could see a scenario were you ship out Mills + 28th for an early 2nd round pick.

    What's left is again the Room Mid-Level Exception to sign further players.



    What the Spurs will do depends on the other moves they have planned. None of these scenarios seem ideal to me, but I like that they are supposedly looking to add some wings and wont just stand pat. The salary cap situation makes adding high quality players very difficult.

    I'd much rather somehow get rid of Mills, Bertans and Belinelli to then sign Bogdanovic + Morris and keep all 3 of Aldridge/DeRozan/Gay. Add Murray/White/Walker/Poeltl and 2 picks to the mix and that team could make a lot of noise in the west, but it's highly unrealistic RC pulls that off
    A dream scenario would be to trade DDR for a pick that can get you Hunter / Cam / etc and then with the trade exception, get Indiana to sign and trade BB for whatever we give,.which would be better than nothing for Indy.

  18. #168
    Believe. DavidTheGoliath's Avatar
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    Pop running back to submissive Euros.
    "Submissive"

    https://youtu.be/Ibsd0UvBhTs

  19. #169
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Is Bojan a 15-18 million a year player? Isn’t he 30 or 31? I thought he was more in the MLE range, but shows how little I know about Pacer basketball.
    I knew he was good but that seems like a lot, it's going to be a years not dollars for his next contract.

    Teams probably aren't going to want to have him at 34, making 20 million. Maybe a 3 year deal in the range of $ 45-55 million

  20. #170
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    Scenario 1:

    Spurs trade DeMar DeRozan for a draft pick to get after one of Hunter/Reddish/Little/Hachimura.

    Spurs sign Bojan Bogdanovic (15-18 million)
    I just don't think the timing is right to trade DeRozan for a pick in this year's draft. Any team with cap space will want to first try to sign a max free agent. Much more likely to trade him for a future first, IMO.

    Maybe there's a coincidence that a team who strikes out in free agency happens to draft who the Spurs wanted but that'd take a lot of luck.

    Scenario 2:

    Spurs do a sign and trade with the Pacers. DeRozan for Bogdanovic and Thad Young. The Pacers are a deep team, they are looking for a go to guy and after Oladipo's injury they'd probably be interested in DeRozan. Spurs get a good forward pairing that knows how to play together.

    The thing is: Why would the Spurs trade DeRozan to get a bunch of free agents when they could just salary dump him and get an extra pick in the draft? Both Bogdanovic and Young are free agents and can be signed with the created cap space like in the option above. The Pacers only have the 18th pick, so even if they add that to the package Spurs could at least get a pick in the lower lottery for DeRozan. The thing that would benefit them in this scenario is that they'd still have bird rights on Gay and could resign him by going over the cap while also having the MLE available to add to the roster.
    Hypothetically possible but that's a lot of moving parts that would have to fit just right (outbidding all other comers for two free agents is probably the diciest part). And even if the salaries end up fitting, the Spurs could be forgoing an asset or two by taking the sign-and-trade shortcut, as you mentioned.


    Scenario 3:

    Spurs trade Davis Bertans and 19th pick to move up a few spots in the draft to draft one of Little/Hachimura

    Spurs trade Marco Belinelli and 49th pick for a 2nd rounder in the early to mid 30s to draft one of the better 2nd round prospects like Okeke for example. Belinelli and 49th for one of the 76ers 33rd or 34th pick would make a lot of sense for both teams.
    This is really unlikely, IMO. First of all, the Sixers won't have room to absorb Belinelli with the cap holds for Butler and Harris on the books.

    And I don't know of a team with cap room that will take on those contracts while thinking they are assets. Neither are necessarily bad contracts but other teams can use their cap space more wisely than simply taking on those okay-ish contracts. The Hawks getting a pair of first rounders for their cap space has placed the value of cap room rather high.

    If we're being realistic, Bertans maybe you can get a team to absorb -- but you aren't getting anything back. As far as Belinelli is concerned, you probably have to give up something (maybe a second round pick or two) to unload him, IMO. I don't think it's realistic that you can salary dump them AND get an asset in return. That would require them being much more valuable than their contracts and that's not really the case, if we're being honest.

    Plus, teams probably won't know until late into the summer whether they want to absorb such contracts. That doesn't fit on the timeline the Spurs would need to be on in order to sign a free agent with the created space.

    Scenario 4:

    Spurs do the same they are doing in Scenario 3 above, but they package Bertans and Belinelli in a sign and trade with Indiana for Bogdanovic.
    AFAIK, the Pacers want to retain Bogdanovic. To get them to open the door for the Spurs, San Antonio probably would have to give up something like a first rounder on top of this package. IMO.



    Scenario 5:

    Spurs dump Patty Mills to clear cap space for Bojan Bogdanovic.

    Like I said, renounce Rudy and we got 5 million in cap space. Dump Mills 13 million and we got 18. I could see a scenario were you ship out Mills + 28th for an early 2nd round pick.
    Dumping Mills is going to take more than sliding down a few picks.

    He's obviously better than Crabbe and he's more valuable in the right situation ... but his contract is arguably as bad as Crabbe's. At least with Crabbe's, you eat one season and you're done. With Mills, you have two seasons to account for -- and more money overall.

    It took two first rounders to get off of Crabbe. Probably takes something similar to get off of Mills. At the very, very least, it'd take one first rounder ... but that's assuming he's going to a team that actually puts value on his basketball playing ability.




    Overall, very good post and a lot of good food for thought, RC_Drunkford. Thanks

  21. #171
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Scenario 1:

    Spurs trade DeMar DeRozan for a draft pick to get after one of Hunter/Reddish/Little/Hachimura.

    Spurs sign Bojan Bogdanovic (15-18 million)

    Depending on which pick DeRozan nets them Spurs have about 10-15 million in cap space left if they renounce Rudy's cap hold. They could then go after Thad Young or Marcus Morris or they keep Gay's cap hold and just resign him.

    That would leave them with the Room Mid-Level Exception to add some more free agents/bring over Euro players (Milutinov)

    Scenario 2:

    Spurs do a sign and trade with the Pacers. DeRozan for Bogdanovic and Thad Young. The Pacers are a deep team, they are looking for a go to guy and after Oladipo's injury they'd probably be interested in DeRozan. Spurs get a good forward pairing that knows how to play together.

    The thing is: Why would the Spurs trade DeRozan to get a bunch of free agents when they could just salary dump him and get an extra pick in the draft? Both Bogdanovic and Young are free agents and can be signed with the created cap space like in the option above. The Pacers only have the 18th pick, so even if they add that to the package Spurs could at least get a pick in the lower lottery for DeRozan. The thing that would benefit them in this scenario is that they'd still have bird rights on Gay and could resign him by going over the cap while also having the MLE available to add to the roster.


    Scenario 3:

    Spurs trade Davis Bertans and 19th pick to move up a few spots in the draft to draft one of Little/Hachimura

    Spurs trade Marco Belinelli and 49th pick for a 2nd rounder in the early to mid 30s to draft one of the better 2nd round prospects like Okeke for example. Belinelli and 49th for one of the 76ers 33rd or 34th pick would make a lot of sense for both teams.

    Spurs renounce Rudy Gay. That would leave us with roughly 15-17 million in cap space. That's exactly what you would need to sign Bogdanovic.

    That leaves the team with the Room Mid-Level Exception of 4.7 million. I don't think Gay would resign for that, but who knows. I think there is a possibility to do a wink-wink type of deal with him, cause he's obviously looking to make a deep playoff run for the first time in his career, I just don't know if he will go as far as giving up 60% of his salary.


    Scenario 4:

    Spurs do the same they are doing in Scenario 3 above, but they package Bertans and Belinelli in a sign and trade with Indiana for Bogdanovic. That's the one scenario where they keep Aldridge/DeRozan/Gay and add Bogdanovic to the mix.


    Scenario 5:

    Spurs dump Patty Mills to clear cap space for Bojan Bogdanovic.

    Like I said, renounce Rudy and we got 5 million in cap space. Dump Mills 13 million and we got 18. I could see a scenario were you ship out Mills + 28th for an early 2nd round pick.

    What's left is again the Room Mid-Level Exception to sign further players.

    What the Spurs will do depends on the other moves they have planned. None of these scenarios seem ideal to me, but I like that they are supposedly looking to add some wings and wont just stand pat. The salary cap situation makes adding high quality players very difficult.

    I'd much rather somehow get rid of Mills, Bertans and Belinelli to then sign Bogdanovic + Morris and keep all 3 of Aldridge/DeRozan/Gay. Add Murray/White/Walker/Poeltl and 2 picks to the mix and that team could make a lot of noise in the west, but it's highly unrealistic RC pulls that off
    -Spurs can't use salary cap and then the MLE, its either or.

    -Signing and trading for Bojan is harder in scenario 2 when having to include both Bojan and Young. PATFO would have to agree to deals with both FAs and Indy would have to agree to take back DeRozan. DDR is an upgrade for them but if they are losing two key players then they may have other players in mind to fill that void.

    -Scenario 4 is a bit more likely, I think, depending if Indy wants Beli and Bertans in an S&T. Both are above average shooters and rotation players and are both on expiring deals. I think that would mean Bojan's deal could start at $16 million.

  22. #172
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    Nice writeup Rc

    best scenario is 1. Trading derozan for a lotto pick. You would have to take one or two contrat because nobody will take all DDR salary

    for exemple deng/hart or Wagner + Lakers pick ( they could trade back because the 4th is too high imo) for DDR


    Dumping Mills is going to take more than sliding down a few picks.

    He's obviously better than Crabbe and he's more valuable in the right situation ... but his contract is arguably as bad as Crabbe's. At least with Crabbe's, you eat one season and you're done. With Mills, you have two seasons to account for -- and more money overall.

    It took two first rounders to get off of Crabbe. Probably takes something similar to get off of Mills. At the very, very least, it'd take one first rounder ... but that's assuming he's going to a team that actually puts value on his basketball playing ability.




    Overall, very good post and a lot of good food for thought, RC_Drunkford. Thanks
    One thing you didn’t mentionned is that they also got prince who worth a 17th pick in this draft or the future first lotto protected.

    But it you’re right it will probably take our late first to dump mills.

  23. #173
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    just change the roster, period

  24. #174
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    Wasn’t Bertans get out in the doghouse for that? Stand up for your teammates and gets punished. I actually liked this team.

  25. #175
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    Still think Aminu makes sense defensively, being a true combo forward and financially, tbh.
    He does but may require the full MLE and unless Gay leaves or gets too expensive it doesn't make a lot of sense to add to the log jam next year.

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