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  1. #151
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    Proves my point even more. Dude gives the ball to everybody else EXCEPT his best athlete. Him running that red set doesn’t change that fact. Patty push the pace
    Lonnie is surprisingly very bad in transition and he ran it often, his frequency on those possesions are higher than anyone on the team.

    https://www.nba.com/stats/players/tr...RCENTILE&dir=1

  2. #152
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting Dejounte. Here is a more expansive video if anyone interested.



    Ex-Spur Ray Mcallum Jr. in the video too.

    Gives you an idea of how big a guard Jrue is.
    thanks for posting. Jrue is on another level than these guys. Lonnie showing he has hops for days and a very good jump shot. Still needs work on handles, change of pace, and functional strength. Still shying away from contact.

  3. #153
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Thats why I made the video, you see what Red(the guy who pretty much invented the fast bread) looked like and said about his offense and then you see how POOP ed it up. Its as if pop is the one guy who never saw that Auerbach Coaching movie and if he did it got scrambled in his head.
    Phil is not unscathed either, he had spent that better part of the last 10 years and all his time in NY as GM blabbing about Tex's Triangle as it failed miserably. Tex Triangle looks mint when you have Pippen and Jordan running it along with those two as Top 99.99 percentile GOAT wing defenders. Jackson though it was Tex's Scheme.
    Ohhhh my bad. Only watched like a minute of it

    Phil looks bad now but when you've been to the Finals 13 times out of 19 years, idgaf how good your talent was, that's some amazing . Did he have the best player in Michael Jordan? Absolutely. But I don't think Jordan goes 6 for 6 without Phil. Same for Kobe. He couldn't win without Phil. He was uncoachable from like 01-07. That's always glossed over in the Kobe vs Duncan debates. And I feel like Duncan would've 3peated had he had Phil as a coach... Though he might be stuck at 4 rings instead of that amazing 14 season which is like the GOAT coaching season ever.

  4. #154
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    Combine Measurements
    For all Tense and Purposes Jrue and Lonnie are the same height and length, True has his mans strength and body after 10+ years in the NBA.(both 19 when drafted)




    2009-10
    Jrue Holiday PG-SG 6.30% - - 6' 3.25'' 6' 4.25'' 8' 4.5'' 199.0 6' 7''
    2018-19
    Lonnie Walker SG 5.65% 9.00 9.50 6' 3.75'' 6' 4.5'' 8' 3.5'' 196.2 6' 10.25''
    Jrue is a great player for Lonnie to look to model as he grows into his game.

  5. #155
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I think Lonnie needs confidence. His childhood was abusive and Pop’s treatment seems to have either backfired or perhaps slowed his growth. I’m not saying Pop is abusive but he needs a much different approach with Lonnie it seems.

  6. #156
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    Players like Walker don't just get plays run for them, they have to build up to it. Also, with the lack of 3-point shooting on this team, they need him in more of an off ball role.

    He seems more suited to a secondary ball handling/play making role anyway, where he can leverage the threat of his 3/athleticism/speed, drive close outs and attack a rotating defense.

  7. #157
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Players like Walker don't just get plays run for them, they have to build up to it. Also, with the lack of 3-point shooting on this team, they need him in more of an off ball role.

    He seems more suited to a secondary ball handling/play making role anyway, where he can leverage the threat of his 3/athleticism/speed, drive close outs and attack a rotating defense.
    I'm interested - why would "players like Walker" not get plays run for them? I sure see a lot of very athletic, ball-handling guards around the league getting plenty plays run for them. It also should be noted that needing more 3pt shooting doesn't necessarily correlate with having Walker play off-ball, when they can teach and encourage him to take off-the-dribble or ISO 3's like Tatum does. That's more debatable and depending on Walker's game though, but it's coaching at the end of the day (for better or worse, considering it's Pop calling the shots right now).

    I also don't see why Lonnie can't perform as a primary ball-handler or initiator. Is he ready right now? No, and he probably won't be through this season. But his first step, athleticism, and game are such that he shouldn't have to rely on a badly set defense to penetrate. I'd rather the Spurs focus on making him a primary initiator, especially with the league trending away from do-it-all PG's calling the entire offense, and more into do-it-all wings and guards that can run everything by themselves. It's an uphill battle, but that's certainly Lonnie's ceiling. I guess we'll have concrete answers to this after this season, though, especially considering White is already injured.

  8. #158
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Lonnie needs to have plays run for him to get the shot or make the move. He also needs to be a willing but likely secondary ball handler. He has the ability. Now is the time to step up and do it.

  9. #159
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Lonnie needs to have plays run for him to get the shot or make the move. He also needs to be a willing but likely secondary ball handler. He has the ability. Now is the time to step up and do it.
    I'm expecting Pop to make him a focal point for the team given the multiple injured players to start the season.



    ...ok, I'm not expecting it, but I'd like it.

  10. #160
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    I'm interested - why would "players like Walker" not get plays run for them? I sure see a lot of very athletic, ball-handling guards around the league getting plenty plays run for them. It also should be noted that needing more 3pt shooting doesn't necessarily correlate with having Walker play off-ball, when they can teach and encourage him to take off-the-dribble or ISO 3's like Tatum does. That's more debatable and depending on Walker's game though, but it's coaching at the end of the day (for better or worse, considering it's Pop calling the shots right now).

    I also don't see why Lonnie can't perform as a primary ball-handler or initiator. Is he ready right now? No, and he probably won't be through this season. But his first step, athleticism, and game are such that he shouldn't have to rely on a badly set defense to penetrate. I'd rather the Spurs focus on making him a primary initiator, especially with the league trending away from do-it-all PG's calling the entire offense, and more into do-it-all wings and guards that can run everything by themselves. It's an uphill battle, but that's certainly Lonnie's ceiling. I guess we'll have concrete answers to this after this season, though, especially considering White is already injured.
    His ball skills are relatively rudimentary. He's more wing than combo guard. He might develop a pull up 3 in time, but right now he's mostly a spot up shooter.

    His bubble performance gave me more clarity on what I perceive his role to be in the league. I see solid starter as more so the ceiling than puncher's chance at a star.

  11. #161
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    His ball skills are relatively rudimentary. He's more wing than combo guard. He might develop a pull up 3 in time, but right now he's mostly a spot up shooter.

    His bubble performance gave me more clarity on what I perceive his role to be in the league. I see solid starter as more so the ceiling than puncher's chance at a star.
    I see, fair assessment. To be honest, I think ball skills as a 21yo guard are certainly something he can work on, and I thought he was much more careful with the ball in the bubble that he was in the G-League or his first games with the Spurs. I see progress there - will it be enough to get him to make the jump from bench piece/fringe starter to fringe star? Maybe, maybe not... But I don't see it as a lost cause, the way that I see someone like Samanic for example, who will probably never have the fluidity to be a primary penetrator at the NBA level.

    The pull-up 3 game, I see more as a confidence thing. We know he can hit it - but I don't think he knows to attempt it. To be fair, I wouldn't be taking many pull-up 3's playing under Pop, and it's a large part on why I think this next season won't be "the year" for Lonnie, if it ever comes for him. He needs a modern coach, who understands and embraces the way the league is trending. Lonnie's bulked up to the point where he could succeed as a wing, I agree with you there, but he'll never succeed as anything without a proper coaching behind him, IMO.

  12. #162
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    I see, fair assessment. To be honest, I think ball skills as a 21yo guard are certainly something he can work on, and I thought he was much more careful with the ball in the bubble that he was in the G-League or his first games with the Spurs. I see progress there - will it be enough to get him to make the jump from bench piece/fringe starter to fringe star? Maybe, maybe not... But I don't see it as a lost cause, the way that I see someone like Samanic for example, who will probably never have the fluidity to be a primary penetrator at the NBA level.

    The pull-up 3 game, I see more as a confidence thing. We know he can hit it - but I don't think he knows to attempt it. To be fair, I wouldn't be taking many pull-up 3's playing under Pop, and it's a large part on why I think this next season won't be "the year" for Lonnie, if it ever comes for him. He needs a modern coach, who understands and embraces the way the league is trending. Lonnie's bulked up to the point where he could succeed as a wing, I agree with you there, but he'll never succeed as anything without a proper coaching behind him, IMO.
    I am okay for him not to do too much, just concentrate on shooting spot up 3, finishing at the rim and continue to develop his passing which shows potential in the bubble. He could then concentrate on the pull up the next season. I think it is better for him then follow Murray to try and do too much in one go which resulting only minor improvement in all area. I rather he follow Kawhi's of major improvement in one area every season.

  13. #163
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Pop has to develop Lonnie into a 6th man. He has to be groomed to be a scorer. Let him score on opposing bench players and give him the green light. Once he can do that we might have something

  14. #164
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    Pop has to develop Lonnie into a 6th man. He has to be groomed to be a scorer. Let him score on opposing bench players and give him the green light. Once he can do that we might have something
    Bingo. It's what I've been saying all along.

    It's also a strategic way to pay him less if all the young guys pan out, since we won't be able to afford them all if they're all good.

  15. #165
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Bingo. It's what I've been saying all along.

    It's also a strategic way to pay him less if all the young guys pan out, since we won't be able to afford them all if they're all good.
    Perhaps. But with White and Keldon injured to start the season, I tend to think LW will get the start at least in the beginning, unless Vassell really impresses Pop.

  16. #166
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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  17. #167
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    You know Walker IV has a killer instinct. Remember that shot 3 point shot he made out of nowhere at the end of game. He was looking to take that shot from anywhere and he took and made it.

    Murray doesn't have that kind of instinct. The only one that might be comparable is White.

    DeRozan, Aldridge and Gay are known chokers.

  18. #168
    Spurs fan in Las Vegas Drom John's Avatar
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    NBA.com, clutch +/-

    +2.4 Poeltl
    +2.1 Belinelli
    -0.2 Mills
    -0.3 DeRozan, White
    -0.4 Gay, Forbes
    -0.6 Murray
    -0.7 Walker
    -0.9 Johnson, Aldridge
    -1.0 Eubanks, Weatherspoon
    -2.3 Lyles
    -3.0 Metu, Samanic
    -5.0 Carroll

  19. #169
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    I just don’t see what pop saw in Carroll

  20. #170
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    I am okay for him not to do too much, just concentrate on shooting spot up 3, finishing at the rim and continue to develop his passing which shows potential in the bubble. He could then concentrate on the pull up the next season. I think it is better for him then follow Murray to try and do too much in one go which resulting only minor improvement in all area. I rather he follow Kawhi's of major improvement in one area every season.
    All resources directly focused on one or two aspects of the game. That's the winning recipe and I totally agree with you on that.

    This isn't basketball but in the same regard I have always been told, by those who have been tattooing longer than I have, that focusing all your energy on one style is what helps you succeed in this business and creates a name for yourself.

  21. #171
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    If he does not learn to impact the game off ball he won't be on the roster long. Some posters is blaming pop for Lonnie passivity camping on the three point line, but I think it's more on Lonnie's inability to read the game on where to go or where opportunities are when the play develops. Same thing with his off ball defense. Keldon looks more involved not because he has more responsibilities than Lonnie, but because Keldon reads the game at a higher level. The game is still too fast for him to process. Pop and Lonnie have stated this several times.

    Advance stats also prove this comparing Lonnie and Marco who have the same role last season.

    Lonnie: OBPM -2.5 , Offensive Rating 100
    Marco: OBPM -0.7 , Offensive Rating 110

    -2.5 OBPM is usually only seen on offensive liabilities like Dunn, Melton, Frank, Smart.

  22. #172
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I just don’t see what pop saw in Carroll
    Not sure he was consulted. It was just a deep bench spot. Judging by his virtual non playing, Pop saw nothing in him.

  23. #173
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Not sure he was consulted. It was just a deep bench spot. Judging by his virtual non playing, Pop saw nothing in him.
    Interesting
    My impression that pop has say so on all roster decisions I guess I was wrong.

  24. #174
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    My impression he didn't buy into system

  25. #175
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    I just don’t see what pop saw in Carroll
    Pop thought he was Jae Crowder.

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