Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 70
  1. #1
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Post Count
    4,903
    This is an overview of what happened with Morris and the Knicks. I've rounded numbers - the exact amounts aren't important. I've made some conclusions, but the facts make it pretty hard to conclude otherwise. It may not be perfect, but it's close enough, I think.


    The History:

    The Knicks had a load of cap space this year, but failed to land any top-tier FA's (like Durant). After signing a number of lesser FA's the Knicks agreed to a 2/$21M contract with Reggie Bullock, which left them with their $4.67M room exception. But then the Knicks saw Marcus Morris agree to sign for "just" the full MLE with the Spurs, and figured out an angle where they could get him and Bullock both. The first step was finding a way to "re-work" Bullock's contract. To do that, they claimed that something had come up in his physical. The story is that Bullock missed 8 of the last 10 games of the season due to plantar fasciitis, and so he "might not be able to play a full season" next year. And if he can't play a full season, the reasoning goes, they shouldn't have to pay him a full salary. (Remember that the Knicks knew about him missing those late games, but offered him a contract anyway.)


    The Facts:

    Bullock finished last season with the Lakers. In the last month of the season, he missed 4, then played 2, then missed 4 more. The reason given for missing the first 4 games was plantar fasciitis, but the reason given at the time for missing the second four games was "neck soreness". Missing 4 games in March with plantar fasciitis isn't a reason to say that the player likely "can't play a full season" the next year. And if you remember, the Lakers went into full tank mode at the end, because they were out of the playoff picture - they weren't even trying to field their best players in those last few games. Bullock sitting those last 4 games likely had less to do with any medical issue, and more to do with the Lakers mailing it in, and evaluating younger players, since they didn't plan to sign Bullock the next season anyway. (I've got a link below from April 7, which was the second to last game of the Lakers' season. The reason given for him missing games at that time was still "neck soreness" - not plantar fasciitis, like the media is helpfully claiming.)


    The Goal:


    If the Knicks could void their deal with Bullock, they would have about $14.6M to offer Morris - which they figured would be more than enough to get him to renege on the Spurs. But remember they weren't really trying to void the deal with Bullock. This is all about finding a way to get Bullock and Morris both, with the cap room they have and their Room Exception.


    The Problem:


    To make it all work, the Knicks needed Bullock to go along, and they had to give him a deal that would be enough for that, but still leave them their full remaining cap to give Morris. They knew that Bullock and his agent would challenge the idea that he is unfit to play, if they went that route. So they cooked up this story that he "won't be able to play a full season", as a way to explain them "reworking" his contract.

    Now... there's no way Bullock is going to agree to play for the Room Exception. That's roughly $6M/season less than the deal they offered him. (Give or take.) So they are busily trying to come up with a scheme that he will accept, and still leave them the room to sign Morris.


    Where It's Probably Going:


    Logically, there's no way the Knicks can pull this off with the money they have available. The Room Exception is way too much less than he was offered. And he knows that he's not unfit to play - there's no reason for him to take that much less. (Everyone knows that he's not unfit to play - the whole thing is a farce.) They can't combine the room exception with cap space to give Bullock more, and even if they could, they can't short Morris or he won't sign.

    The only way for the Knicks to get there, IMO, is going to be to promise him some kind of back door money, or shorten his deal to 1 year, with the promise of a much bigger payday next year. Both of which are illegal. But as "creative" as they have been so far, I don't see any reason why they would stop short now. Bullock and his agent are now in on the deal - which is why the agent is praising the Knick's FO, rather than blasting them for trying to void the deal. Morris and his people have to know, but all they care about is getting $15M instead of $10 - but the understand the reason for the delay, and that's why we don't have anything official yet. If the Knicks' deal falls through, Morris falls back on the Spurs' offer like nothing ever happened, and exercises his player option next season. The media (especially the NY media) are playing their part, talking about Bullock missing the end of the season due to plantar fasciitis. The League has to know that it's a farce, but they are going to accept the Knicks' cover story, if they work out the details well enough.


    https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/ba...mains-shelved/
    Bullock (neck) has been ruled out for Sunday's game against Utah.
    Bullock will remain on the bench for the third straight contest while dealing with neck soreness. He figures to be a game-time call for the Lakers' final regular-season game Tuesday against Portland.


    Edit: The first link was from April 7. This one is April 4. Note that he had just played 2 games. So he missed 4 with PF, then missed the last 4 with neck soreness - not plantar fasciitis.
    https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/ba...call-thursday/

    Bullock is questionable for Thursday's game against Golden State due to a stiff neck, Mike Trudell of the Lakers' official site reports.
    Bullock was a late addition to the injury report, and his status likely won't be cleared up until right before tipoff. He's come off the bench for the Lakers in each of the previous two contests.

    Last edited by ZeusWillJudge; 07-10-2019 at 10:54 AM.

  2. #2
    Veteran weebo's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    5,500
    Seems plausible. Good work.

  3. #3
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Post Count
    4,769
    If Colin Cowturd corroborates this, I'll believe it.

  4. #4
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Post Count
    5,413
    Good stuff

  5. #5
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    2,913
    Doesn't seem plausible as the expectation is that Reggie Bullock will be willing to take a paycut and is acceptable to being labelled someone who failed a medical to enable a backdoor pay-in. Seems very unlikely. He may be a bullock but he ain't accepting this bull .

  6. #6
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    9,624
    can't imagine that the spurs FO is sitting idly by, while the knicks, the league and some shady agents try to conspire to find a way to bend the rules to their advantage.

  7. #7
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Post Count
    5,413
    I think this all gets resolved today

  8. #8
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Post Count
    4,903
    Seems plausible. Good work.

    I just added a second injury report and link. It shows clearly - Bullock missed 4 games with PF. Then he came back and played 2 games (with no problems, looking at the game logs). Then they shelved him for the last 4 games, and blamed neck soreness.

    Is that enough reason to re-work a guy's contract?

  9. #9
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    2,913
    The more likely reason is that Bullock did actually fail his physical and that got the Knicks in a soup. They tried to make something of this by contacting Morris who is now undecided whether this really helps him in the medium term. In the short term, its a clear salary increase compared to the Spurs.

  10. #10
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Post Count
    4,903
    The more likely reason is that Bullock did actually fail his physical and that got the Knicks in a soup. They tried to make something of this by contacting Morris who is now undecided whether this really helps him in the medium term. In the short term, its a clear salary increase compared to the Spurs.

    Except for the fact that they are explicitly not trying to get out of signing Bullock. They want him - they just want him for less money. They aren't even attempting to hide that. So he didn't "fail" his physical.

    That, and the fact that they keep crowing about how "re-working" Bullock's contract lets them sign Morris.

    I've linked to injury reports from the time that show he only missed 4 games with plantar fasciitis, then came back and played well. Those last 4 games listed "neck soreness".

    Believe what you want - but we all saw the Lakers shelf some of their better players in those last games. There is nothing to show that Bullock had an injury problem that cost him the end of the season - but that's exactly the story the NY media is giving. Why make that up?

  11. #11
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Post Count
    1,021,967

  12. #12
    Veteran K...'s Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    8,147
    It would be much more ethical if the Knicks jettisoned Bullock and then committed to Morris at a 11mill or more offer and offer Bullock the scraps. Cap space is rare, but a team shouldn't play agents like this. They're playing two agents against each other for a small pool of money.

  13. #13
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Post Count
    1,021,967
    NBA reporter types will make plantar fascilitis out to be akin to AIDS if it will help the Knicks.

  14. #14
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    2,913
    Except for the fact that they are explicitly not trying to get out of signing Bullock. They want him - they just want him for less money. They aren't even attempting to hide that. So he didn't "fail" his physical.

    That, and the fact that they keep crowing about how "re-working" Bullock's contract lets them sign Morris.

    I've linked to injury reports from the time that show he only missed 4 games with plantar fasciitis, then came back and played well. Those last 4 games listed "neck soreness".

    Believe what you want - but we all saw the Lakers shelf some of their better players in those last games. There is nothing to show that Bullock had an injury problem that cost him the end of the season - but that's exactly the story the NY media is giving. Why make that up?
    The Knicks' problem is that they aren't getting any free agents to come to them. And they dont have anything on their roster beyond projects. Bullock could be useful later in the season, which is why they want to rework his contract considering his physical state. Again I am speculating, but I dont see your roundabout take on a possible skulduggery logically consistent.

  15. #15
    Veteran monty4329's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    1,255
    Doesn't seem plausible as the expectation is that Reggie Bullock will be willing to take a paycut and is acceptable to being labelled someone who failed a medical to enable a backdoor pay-in. Seems very unlikely. He may be a bullock but he ain't accepting this bull .
    I totally agree with this.

    He legitimately partially failed his physical, Morris agent called the Knicks -probably not telling the whole extent of the agreement with the Spurs (or maybe yes, we don't know if Spurs told him if you can get more, go get it).

    In my view, there is no way a player of average caliber smears himself like that, this things come out sooner than later...

  16. #16
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    40,717
    The Knicks' problem is that they aren't getting any free agents to come to them. And they dont have anything on their roster beyond projects. Bullock could be useful later in the season, which is why they want to rework his contract considering his physical state. Again I am speculating, but I dont see your roundabout take on a possible skulduggery logically consistent.
    You're naive.

  17. #17
    Veteran K...'s Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    8,147
    I can just see it. The Knicks lose at free agency, then they get a little cap space when everyone else had filled their roster , and suddenly it's "dance for me my pawns, I control the money"

  18. #18
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    2,913
    Think what you will. I think the Knicks aren't that naive that they can get away with such skulduggery involving a team like the Spurs. It is clearly more a case of Morris being upset with the lack of a market for him despite a decent season and a below-his-expectations salary and wanting another chance at the free agency thing earlier next year in a more limited market. By earning $5 million (and somewhat less because of the tax thing), he is trying to maximise both his short and long term earning possibilities. He is still thinking because the only team offering him $5 million is the wretched Knicks.

  19. #19
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Post Count
    25,595
    It would be much more ethical if the Knicks jettisoned Bullock and then committed to Morris at a 11mill or more offer and offer Bullock the scraps. Cap space is rare, but a team shouldn't play agents like this. They're playing two agents against each other for a small pool of money.
    Going after a committed player ain't kosher.

  20. #20
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    1,810

    The only way for the Knicks to get there, IMO, is going to be to promise him some kind of back door money, or shorten his deal to 1 year, with the promise of a much bigger payday next year. Both of which are illegal. But as "creative" as they have been so far, I don't see any reason why they would stop short now. Bullock and his agent are now in on the deal - which is why the agent is praising the Knick's FO, rather than blasting them for trying to void the deal. Morris and his people have to know, but all they care about is getting $15M instead of $10 - but the understand the reason for the delay, and that's why we don't have anything official yet. If the Knicks' deal falls through, Morris falls back on the Spurs' offer like nothing ever happened, and exercises his player option next season. The media (especially the NY media) are playing their part, talking about Bullock missing the end of the season due to plantar fasciitis. The League has to know that it's a farce, but they are going to accept the Knicks' cover story, if they work out the details well enough.
    This is the part we should pay attention too. Good job op

  21. #21
    Veteran monty4329's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    1,255
    This is an overview of what happened with Morris and the Knicks. I've rounded numbers - the exact amounts aren't important. I've made some conclusions, but the facts make it pretty hard to conclude otherwise. It may not be perfect, but it's close enough, I think.


    The History:

    The Knicks had a load of cap space this year, but failed to land any top-tier FA's (like Durant). After signing a number of lesser FA's the Knicks agreed to a 2/$21M contract with Reggie Bullock, which left them with their $4.67M room exception. But then the Knicks saw Marcus Morris agree to sign for "just" the full MLE with the Spurs, and figured out an angle where they could get him and Bullock both. The first step was finding a way to "re-work" Bullock's contract. To do that, they claimed that something had come up in his physical. The story is that Bullock missed 8 of the last 10 games of the season due to plantar fasciitis, and so he "might not be able to play a full season" next year. And if he can't play a full season, the reasoning goes, they shouldn't have to pay him a full salary. (Remember that the Knicks knew about him missing those late games, but offered him a contract anyway.)


    The Facts:

    Bullock finished last season with the Lakers. In the last month of the season, he missed 4, then played 2, then missed 4 more. The reason given for missing the first 4 games was plantar fasciitis, but the reason given at the time for missing the second four games was "neck soreness". Missing 4 games in March with plantar fasciitis isn't a reason to say that the player likely "can't play a full season" the next year. And if you remember, the Lakers went into full tank mode at the end, because they were out of the playoff picture - they weren't even trying to field their best players in those last few games. Bullock sitting those last 4 games likely had less to do with any medical issue, and more to do with the Lakers mailing it in, and evaluating younger players, since they didn't plan to sign Bullock the next season anyway. (I've got a link below from April 7, which was the second to last game of the Lakers' season. The reason given for him missing games at that time was still "neck soreness" - not plantar fasciitis, like the media is helpfully claiming.)


    The Goal:


    If the Knicks could void their deal with Bullock, they would have about $14.6M to offer Morris - which they figured would be more than enough to get him to renege on the Spurs. But remember they weren't really trying to void the deal with Bullock. This is all about finding a way to get Bullock and Morris both, with the cap room they have and their Room Exception.


    The Problem:


    To make it all work, the Knicks needed Bullock to go along, and they had to give him a deal that would be enough for that, but still leave them their full remaining cap to give Morris. They knew that Bullock and his agent would challenge the idea that he is unfit to play, if they went that route. So they cooked up this story that he "won't be able to play a full season", as a way to explain them "reworking" his contract.

    Now... there's no way Bullock is going to agree to play for the Room Exception. That's roughly $6M/season less than the deal they offered him. (Give or take.) So they are busily trying to come up with a scheme that he will accept, and still leave them the room to sign Morris.


    Where It's Probably Going:


    Logically, there's no way the Knicks can pull this off with the money they have available. The Room Exception is way too much less than he was offered. And he knows that he's not unfit to play - there's no reason for him to take that much less. (Everyone knows that he's not unfit to play - the whole thing is a farce.) They can't combine the room exception with cap space to give Bullock more, and even if they could, they can't short Morris or he won't sign.

    The only way for the Knicks to get there, IMO, is going to be to promise him some kind of back door money, or shorten his deal to 1 year, with the promise of a much bigger payday next year. Both of which are illegal. But as "creative" as they have been so far, I don't see any reason why they would stop short now. Bullock and his agent are now in on the deal - which is why the agent is praising the Knick's FO, rather than blasting them for trying to void the deal. Morris and his people have to know, but all they care about is getting $15M instead of $10 - but the understand the reason for the delay, and that's why we don't have anything official yet. If the Knicks' deal falls through, Morris falls back on the Spurs' offer like nothing ever happened, and exercises his player option next season. The media (especially the NY media) are playing their part, talking about Bullock missing the end of the season due to plantar fasciitis. The League has to know that it's a farce, but they are going to accept the Knicks' cover story, if they work out the details well enough.


    https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/ba...mains-shelved/
    Bullock (neck) has been ruled out for Sunday's game against Utah.
    Bullock will remain on the bench for the third straight contest while dealing with neck soreness. He figures to be a game-time call for the Lakers' final regular-season game Tuesday against Portland.


    Edit: The first link was from April 7. This one is April 4. Note that he had just played 2 games. So he missed 4 with PF, then missed the last 4 with neck soreness - not plantar fasciitis.
    https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/ba...call-thursday/

    Bullock is questionable for Thursday's game against Golden State due to a stiff neck, Mike Trudell of the Lakers' official site reports.
    Bullock was a late addition to the injury report, and his status likely won't be cleared up until right before tipoff. He's come off the bench for the Lakers in each of the previous two contests.

    That might be true, but I can't see how an average player -not a superstar, they have other rules- can jettison his future contracts this way. Accepting to fake a partially failed physical?
    Seems career suicide to me. And for the agent.

    Also Mills doesn't have a bad reputation (this might mean nothing, I know).

    Other than that, yours is a plausible scenario. I just believe it being less plausible than others.

  22. #22
    Veteran K...'s Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    8,147
    Going after a committed player ain't kosher.
    I agree, but the facts wouldn't be as damming as trapping a player (Bullock) into bidding with himself. I'm normal times Bullock would just give all teams the chance to sign him with the medical red flag. But Bullock is trapped because rosters are mostly full. Screwing a compe or team, bad, but also renegging and negotiating in bad faith on your own players contract is worse

  23. #23
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Post Count
    4,903
    He legitimately partially failed his physical, Morris agent called the Knicks -probably not telling the whole extent of the agreement with the Spurs (or maybe yes, we don't know if Spurs told him if you can get more, go get it).

    Can you give me another example of a guy "partially" failing his physical, and the team says, "Hey, we still want you - we just want to pay you partial money, since you're only partially healthy"? I can't think of when I've seen it happen.

    And you think Morris' agent called the Knicks, because he got wind of the fact that Bullock might be getting partial payment, which would allow them to sign his client for more? That somehow seems more plausible to you? LOL... okay.

    Here - this is from NBC Sports:

    "But Bullock appeared healthy entering free agency. Though he missed several games late in the season with neck stiffness, the Lakers were out of the playoff chase. They were sitting several veterans.
    Maybe Bullock’s physical uncovered something. This is a strange development.
    The Knicks were counting on Bullock’s outside shooting. They’ll probably be bad next season either way, but their spacing would be better with Bullock.
    If his contract with New York falls through, Bullock would look like damaged goods as he re-enters the market. Cap space has also evaporated around the league since he agreed to terms. There’s pressure on him to salvage a deal with the Knicks."

  24. #24
    Veteran weebo's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    5,500
    The NBA is a shady business. Why wouldn’t it be plausible?

  25. #25
    Veteran weebo's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Post Count
    5,500
    The NBA is a shady business. Why wouldn’t it be plausible?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •