View Poll Results: Who is the better system QB?

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  • Joe Montana

    3 60.00%
  • Tom Brady

    2 40.00%
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  1. #26
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Neither "shoulder" nor "arm" are injuries, they're body parts. Both the shoulder and arm can get injured but neither one cons utes an injury itself. Make sense?

    You seem really convinced that he was injured (despite what i just posted), surely you can actually tell me what the injury was.

  2. #27
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Yeah I wouldn't agree with it but I'd at least understand the system QB argument if he put up mediocre stats like other "system QBs" such as Montana (or Manning when he threw 3 touchdowns and 7 interceptions during his first "superbowl run" ), but he's top 4 all time in career passing yards, passing touchdowns, passer rating, and he's done it only throwing interceptions on 1.8% of his pass attempts. Of all the other QBs who are near the top in purely quan ative stats like career passing TDs, the next best in terms of interception % is Drew Brees at 2.4%. There's no reasonable argument that Brady's career statistic, both quan ative and qualitative, aren't among the best.

    The "system" works because of how patient Brady is in taking what's given to him and executing it. You couldn't run the 8 minute, 15 play drive that they opened up with against the Chiefs with Aaron Rodgers, Favre or Peyton Manning. Rodgers or Favre would have fallen behind on downs at some point by chucking an unnecessary 40 yard heroball pass instead of taking the 5-7 yard checkdown that was wide open, and Manning would have ed it up by audibling out of the running plays that were gashing KC and going one dimensional. If the goal is winning games then comparing which QBs are best at playing heroball is a stupid way to look at it.
    This is exactly what I mean when I say that Brady helps his team winning games. However, sometimes a pair of throws into tight windows won't go amiss.

  3. #28
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Neither "shoulder" nor "arm" are injuries, they're body parts. Both the shoulder and arm can get injured but neither one cons utes an injury itself. Make sense?

    You seem really convinced that he was injured (despite what i just posted), surely you can actually tell me what the injury was.
    I put IIRC because I wasn't sure. Lo and behold, it wasn't the shoulder or arm. It was the foot:

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/16/de...ng-foot-injury

  4. #29
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    I put IIRC because I wasn't sure. Lo and behold, it wasn't the shoulder or arm. It was the foot:

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/16/de...ng-foot-injury
    a torn plantar fascia? Athletes in all major sports regularly play through that, Tim Duncan played most of the 05-06 season with one. He was listed as probable before the game FFS because it’s always something people play through.

    Soinds like a classic example of someone having a minor ailment that doesn’t matter, playing like , and then pulling the injury card afterwards.

  5. #30
    6X ST MVP
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    a torn plantar fascia? Athletes in all major sports regularly play through that, Tim Duncan played most of the 05-06 season with one. He was listed as probable before the game FFS because it’s always something people play through.

    Soinds like a classic example of someone having a minor ailment that doesn’t matter, playing like , and then pulling the injury card afterwards.
    Would probably be more significant at an advanced age and for a guy who needs consistent torque, tbh.

  6. #31
    Executive Mitch's Avatar
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    Brady owes as much to coach b as coach b owes to Brady, tbh. Can't say the same for Walsh and Montana.

  7. #32
    Montana won his first SB with a crappy team, the second SB with a decent team and 3rd and 4th with a stacked team.

  8. #33
    6X ST MVP
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    Brady owes as much to coach b as coach b owes to Brady, tbh. Can't say the same for Walsh and Montana.
    Still a system/machine. Rice, Taylor, Craig, etc.

  9. #34
    I was very confident that I'd never ever see another QB surplant Joe Montana as the GOAT at QB. And it took a long time for Tom Brady to FINALLY prove to me there is a QB superior to one of my heros Joe Montana.

    I don't have to break it all down and go off into anything other than simply having watched these guys play and I have seen both since their college days. Yep, Tom Brady is the better QB and being a Niner fan it hurts to say that. BUT....we will NEVER see a better WR than Jerry Rice so there for my Niners. OBVIOUSLY....the greatest QB/WR duo, Montana to Rice.

  10. #35
    Montana won his first SB with a crappy team, the second SB with a decent team and 3rd and 4th with a stacked team.
    13-3 with a defense that was second in the NFL in points given up.

    Crappy?

  11. #36
    6X ST MVP
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    I was very confident that I'd never ever see another QB surplant Joe Montana as the GOAT at QB. And it took a long time for Tom Brady to FINALLY prove to me there is a QB superior to one of my heros Joe Montana.

    I don't have to break it all down and go off into anything other than simply having watched these guys play and I have seen both since their college days. Yep, Tom Brady is the better QB and being a Niner fan it hurts to say that. BUT....we will NEVER see a better WR than Jerry Rice so there for my Niners. OBVIOUSLY....the greatest QB/WR duo, Montana to Rice.
    Damn, not even going all the way with your concession. Trying desperately to hold on in your fake contrarian mode. Brady-Moss s on Montana-Rice, son.

  12. #37
    Damn, not even going all the way with your concession. Trying desperately to hold on in your fake contrarian mode. Brady-Moss s on Montana-Rice, son.
    Randy Moss is no Jerry Rice, and when Brady had Moss he wasn't the GOAT.

    Yep, el wrongo.

    Nobody has ever.......is Randy Moss the GOAT WR? While GOAT has been used for Montana and Rice.

  13. #38
    6X ST MVP
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    Randy Moss is no Jerry Rice, and when Brady had Moss he wasn't the GOAT.

    Yep, el wrongo.

    Nobody has ever.......is Randy Moss the GOAT WR? While GOAT has been used for Montana and Rice.
    Even if true, the metric is best combo. Brady/Moss hooked up on 20 TDs on their way to 16-0 in their first year together.

  14. #39
    Even if true, the metric is best combo. Brady/Moss hooked up on 20 TDs on their way to 16-0 in their first year together.
    Look at what Brady/Moss accomplished vs what Montana/Rice accomplished, there isn't even a real debate here.

  15. #40
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Montana Rice definitely has Brady Moss beat on longevity and career accomplishments, but 2007 Brady Moss had more single season dominance than Montana Rice ever did, and it was mostly because of Moss and not Brady. If you watch highlights from that season Moss would regularly shred double coverage and then have to come back and make a catch over double coverage because Brady underthrew him.

    No one considers Moss the GOAT receiver career wise but plenty of people would say peak Moss was more dominant than peak Jerry Rice. When Moss actually played hard and had just a half decent QB throwing him the ball he was one of the most dominant athletes I’ve ever seen.

  16. #41
    Montana Rice definitely has Brady Moss beat on longevity and career accomplishments, but 2007 Brady Moss had more single season dominance than Montana Rice ever did, and it was mostly because of Moss and not Brady. If you watch highlights from that season Moss would regularly shred double coverage and then have to come back and make a catch over double coverage because Brady underthrew him.

    No one considers Moss the GOAT receiver career wise but plenty of people would say peak Moss was more dominant than peak Jerry Rice. When Moss actually played hard and had just a half decent QB throwing him the ball he was one of the most dominant athletes I’ve ever seen.
    No way I can run down/disrespect Randy Moss, it would take Jerry Rice (Hutson in the 30's?) to be in any debate vs him. Yep, he was great, totally amazing.

    My thing was we have heard both Montana and Rice called the GOAT, that can't be said about any other QB/WR duo, unless we go with Unitas/Berry way back when. Moss was never considered to be the GOAT because of Rice, and it's just been in the last few seasons where Brady has surpassed Montana.

    The best QB of all time was Joe Montana throwing to the best WR of all time Jerry Rice.

  17. #42
    13-3 with a defense that was second in the NFL in points given up.

    Crappy?
    The team wasn't that great outside a few players that would go on to be great players. They definitely over achieved that year.

  18. #43
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Montana Rice definitely has Brady Moss beat on longevity and career accomplishments, but 2007 Brady Moss had more single season dominance than Montana Rice ever did, and it was mostly because of Moss and not Brady. If you watch highlights from that season Moss would regularly shred double coverage and then have to come back and make a catch over double coverage because Brady underthrew him.

    No one considers Moss the GOAT receiver career wise but plenty of people would say peak Moss was more dominant than peak Jerry Rice. When Moss actually played hard and had just a half decent QB throwing him the ball he was one of the most dominant athletes I’ve ever seen.
    he had like 22 touchdowns that year in the regular season, but he couldn't moss a mediocre corner in the super bowl when all they needed was to get into field goal range.

  19. #44
    Allenhu Joshbar DeadlyDynasty's Avatar
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    he had like 22 touchdowns that year in the regular season, but he couldn't moss a mediocre corner in the super bowl when all they needed was to get into field goal range.
    They had something like 30 secs left when they got the ball back. How are you this dumb?

  20. #45
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    They had something like 30 secs left when they got the ball back. How are you this dumb?
    Same time or more than what redshirt-rookie Mahomes had on the highest stage, and Mahomes got them in FG range plus a couple cracks at the endzone.

  21. #46
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    he had like 22 touchdowns that year in the regular season, but he couldn't moss a mediocre corner in the super bowl when all they needed was to get into field goal range.
    He had a step on Webster in the 2nd to last play of the game, Brady just under threw him (largely because of how far the pass needed to travel). The Patriots also had no other weapons for that situation so it was easy to focus on Moss. They didn't have any play makers who could pick up 20-30 yard chunk plays like the Chiefs did.

    I don't see how that last drive is Moss's fault. If I had to blame one unit I'd blame the offensive line for being unable to protect Brady even when the Giants were dropping 8 into coverage and only rushing 3.

  22. #47
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    He had a step on Webster in the 2nd to last play of the game, Brady just under threw him (largely because of how far the pass needed to travel). The Patriots also had no other weapons for that situation so it was easy to focus on Moss. They didn't have any play makers who could pick up 20-30 yard chunk plays like the Chiefs did.

    I don't see how that last drive is Moss's fault. If I had to blame one unit I'd blame the offensive line for being unable to protect Brady even when the Giants were dropping 8 into coverage and only rushing 3.
    Right. I remember watching the game almost certainly there was either going to be a big play or a DPI and that game was headed to OT (if the Pats didn't score outright), because Manning/Burress scored too early.

    That second to last play, yep, that was it. Bad underthrow, and if it had been a few yards deeper the Pats would have been in range for a FG plus a few shots at the endzone.

  23. #48
    The team wasn't that great outside a few players that would go on to be great players. They definitely over achieved that year.
    Wrong.

    The team had a great defense, a great coach and QB, they did get better but they were good that year. 13-3 tells us that.

  24. #49
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Alex Smith

  25. #50
    Case Keenum

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