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  1. #226
    Believe.
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    Itís not so complicated. If a deal improves the team, they will do it. Also, letting a guy walk for nothing makes no sense especially if he has value. The Gay deal has no relevance since I wouldnít put him in DDRs tier. Also, we will see a big jump from our 3 guards especially Murray. They will all need time on the court and DDRís game is just a bad fit. Thatís not to say heís a bad player but if heís not part of the future, you have to explore trade options.

  2. #227
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    The dynamics are different; it’s known now that DeRozan is not getting an extension. That was not the case with Harris hence they could wait because he was not expected to walk. DeRozan is. That drives the value down.
    Oh so NOW the dynamics of the trades a different...

  3. #228
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Lot of revisionism in here. 2017-2018 with Murray/Green/Anderson and a healthy Gasol was probably the best defensive Spurs team of the past ten years.
    A Spurs team with Murray, White, a 3 and D guy (like an Otto Porter for example) and Poeltl would probably be just as good defensively, and better offensively.

  4. #229
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    Sorry...Walker not Murray was intended like the big time bet...

  5. #230
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I never said the sole reason you trade him now was because of depreciating value; I said its part of the reason why I think it happens sooner than later if it does happen.

    SA knows they aren’t keeping him and if they get a good enough offer now they will trade him now. They aren’t going to hold onto him to win a few more games if they get a good offer which is what you seem to be arguing.

  6. #231
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Oh so NOW the dynamics of the trades a different...

    In my context yes I donít see how you keep bas izing this almost purposely at this point.

    The dynamics of market are irrelevant; the dynamics of value due to situation are. These arenít some mutually exclusive things.

  7. #232
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    I’ll also say we don’t need DDR to make the playoffs. We had no DDR or KL the year prior and we are going to be much better next year.

  8. #233
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I guess here are the questions Chinook:

    1) What is the ceiling of this team as currently constructed in your opinion?

    2) When should teams (taking into consideration ceiling/floor) take into consideration future vs now?

  9. #234
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    It's simple, do you think a lineup of, for example:

    Murray, White, Walker/Carroll/Forbes, Otto Porter, Aldridge couldn't be good enough to win around 48/50 games and make the playoffs? I think it could.

    On that case, trading DeRozan for Porter plus other assets becomes a no brainer. You mantain the same level of compe iveness, you gain further assets for the future and you acceleratte the development of players like White, Murray and Walker. It's a win/win/win situation.

  10. #235
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Spurs were better with Derozan off the court last year tbh

  11. #236
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    SA is NOT extending DeRozan and with that in mind on top of SA loving Dejounte/Lonnie/White, it makes sense to move DeRozan now while his value is the highest.

    I haven't read the whole thread - I just happened to jump in at this page. Is that something that has come out for certain, or are you just saying what you think?

    If they don't have any intention at all of extending him, then yeah you trade him. Partly to get some kind of value out of him. But also because that player option keeps you from making plans. I don't think anyone is going to pay him more money next year, but the option keeps the team in limbo while he goes out and shops. If you know he's exercising him option and staying, you plan on two years with him and then a transition.

    If you plan on him staying, and he leaves, you're screwed. If you think he'll opt out, but you don't know for sure, you can't make alternate plans. It's just a mess.

    Yeah, if they know for sure they won't extend him, they need to bite the bullet now. Get some value out of him, commit to a new direction, and get about their business.

  12. #237
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    Didn't we have a thread like this a few weeks ago ?

  13. #238
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    If you have a car for 20 years and then just buy a newer version of that car, it's fine. Cars get better, so older cars become less valuable faster than their mere age implies. If cars stayed the same, the basic math behind when you should buy a new one would look completely different.



    Nah. You took the analogy into a different place. The point of the argument is that the car having less trade-in value alone isn't a reason why you should sell then. Let's say you'd get $1000 bucks less in trade-in if you sold it two years later. You could totally get $1000 worth of value just by not having to make car payments during those years or avoid an insurance hike. In that same way, DeRozan's value is that he can win the Spurs games while Murray, White and Walker prove themselves. Once they do, then you can consider a DeRozan trade, and if you get less then, it was still worth it because you had him winning games for you during that time.



    Nah. Kawhi said he didn't want to be there anymore. That completely changes the calculus. If DeRozan also wanted out, of course they should move him.



    You're missing the point. Rather, you're making a point we weren't arguing. Are there possible DeRozan trades that would benefit the team? Yes. But should they look to trade him now simply because teams may offer less later? No. You jumped into this discussion when I was arguing over if DeRozan's depreciating value meant you should try to trade him ASAP. If you want to just say there are possibly good DeRozan trades that PATFO should consider, that's really not the point we were discussing when you came in.
    1. The spurs “car” has the express purpose of being the best/fastest/most valuable out of the 30 others. Arguing depreciation is making my point - you want to fight that by getting the best value when you can.

    2. There is functionally no difference between KL wanting out and DDR not being extended. In one case, the player wanted out, in the other, the team. The end result is the same. In both scenarios, it’s known that the player is not in the teams long term plans, causing a depreciation in value. Or even a fire sale.

    3. While retaining a player who doesn’t have a place in the long term can provide short term value - there’s nothing to suggest that short term value outweighs the benefits of a) selling while value is higher and b) bringing in a player now and beginning the long integration process. You just assume that because Derozan has value now and can provide value until February, then any trade must be a bad idea. There’s nothing to suggest that new player couldn’t also win games or give breathing room for the new guys to get acclimated. There’s an opportunity cost and it seems like you’re only focused on the opportunity and not balancing the cost.

  14. #239
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I haven't read the whole thread - I just happened to jump in at this page. Is that something that has come out for certain, or are you just saying what you think?

    If they don't have any intention at all of extending him, then yeah you trade him. Partly to get some kind of value out of him. But also because that player option keeps you from making plans. I don't think anyone is going to pay him more money next year, but the option keeps the team in limbo while he goes out and shops. If you know he's exercising him option and staying, you plan on two years with him and then a transition.

    If you plan on him staying, and he leaves, you're screwed. If you think he'll opt out, but you don't know for sure, you can't make alternate plans. It's just a mess.

    Yeah, if they know for sure they won't extend him, they need to bite the bullet now. Get some value out of him, commit to a new direction, and get about their business.
    I am telling people what I have heard.

  15. #240
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    DeRozan getting traded has a better chance of happening than signing some big free agent in '21. Spurs fans with the hope of getting a signifcant free agent that year are going to be really really disappointed.

  16. #241
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    Spurs were better with Derozan off the court last year tbh

  17. #242
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    The reality - with the blossoming of white, walker, murray this team would win more games as structured with a Marcus Morris type rather than Derozan. Let that sink in

  18. #243
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    DeRozan getting traded has a better chance of happening than signing some big free agent in '21. Spurs fans with the hope of getting a signifcant free agent that year are going to be really really disappointed.
    That's another thing. By trading DeRozan you might get access to players that you would never even sniff a chance in free agency. Players like Otto Porter, Gordon, Covington, etc. Players, that even though aren't all-star level players, are high-end role players that would fit our team perfectly.

  19. #244
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    I can actually see Chinooks argument a lot more if Lonnie/Dejounte/Derrick aren’t as great as expected - which is a definite possibility.

  20. #245
    Believe. Degoat's Avatar
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    I think things could be kinda telling if DeMar isn’t at team USA training camp when they have it

  21. #246
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    I can actually see Chinooks argument a lot more if Lonnie/Dejounte/Derrick aren’t as great as expected - which is a definite possibility.
    Dejounte was looking better than Derozan in the preseason games before he went down with the injury.
    Lonnie put up 16 points in like 6-9 minutes of playing time against Denver at the end of the season.
    I’d say it’s more likely the Young Big 3 boom instead of plateau out

  22. #247
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    For me it's a simple, if patfo can trade him for what they want then move him, if they cant keep him. I'm not in the 'absolute' category that says we must trade him....or it would be ridiculous to trade him. It's obvious that we are in a position of strength here (which is the only thing that matters) because we don't need to trade him and probably aren't really trying to trade him. We are simply open for business and if business is good we move forward if its undesirable we stand pat.

  23. #248
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    I can actually see Chinooks argument a lot more if Lonnie/Dejounte/Derrick arenít as great as expected - which is a definite possibility.
    Why is it possibility? Weíve seen all 3 guys play and PAFTO is extremely high on all of them. Itís clear as day that all 3 should have a big upcoming year. I think some people like to argue for argument sake. You donít let a guy walk for nothing. Heís not Gay or Anderson which is a pretty laughable comparison.

  24. #249
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    For me it's a simple, if patfo can trade him for what they want then move him, if they cant keep him. I'm not in the 'absolute' category that says we must trade him....or it would be ridiculous to trade him. It's obvious that we are in a position of strength here (which is the only thing that matters) because we don't need to trade him and probably aren't really trying to trade him. We are simply open for business and if business is good we move forward if its undesirable we stand pat.
    This is correct. There appears to be incentive to trade him since he can walk and SA has no interest in extending him but other than that, they aren’t just dumping him since he’s not toxic or anything and is a good player.

  25. #250
    tangina ka, though FireMicoHalili's Avatar
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    Spurs were better with Derozan off the court last year tbh
    Lmao facts https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/sta...48385119817728

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