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  1. #1
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    Federer has choked against Novak many times. Itís crazy how much Novak is in both Federer and nadalís head

    Federer was incredible but when all is said and done Novak is the GOAT. Unbelievable.

  2. #2
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Meh, give me Prime Federer over Prime Djokovic any day of the week.
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  3. #3
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Prime fed is the GOAT prime.
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  4. #4
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    3 best of all time. Federer would probably have 25 majors if it was 'acceptable' to underarm serve to Nadal to stop him receiving 7-8 metres behind the baseline.

  5. #5
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Federer has choked against Novak many times. Itís crazy how much Novak is in both Federer and nadalís head

    Federer was incredible but when all is said and done Novak is the GOAT. Unbelievable.
    Nope. Because it is about more than just majors won. Fed still has 20, but beyond that look at the record books. He owns every single record worth talking about in the game of tennis. Fed has the most GS, but also Finals, SF, QF appearances all time. Most Grand Slam Matches at 353. Most weeks at Number 1 at 310. Fed also is going to pass Connors for all time matches won. 1274-1222. He likely passes Jimmy sometime next year.. Sadly men's Tennis is not in good shape. Fed, Nadal, and Novak all old, and nobody is coming up. No young players are doing much of anything. So maybe Novak wins some more on the very back end with no challenges. But Fed is the GOAT. He did everything.

  6. #6
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    Nope. Because it is about more than just majors won. Fed still has 20, but beyond that look at the record books. He owns every single record worth talking about in the game of tennis. Fed has the most GS, but also Finals, SF, QF appearances all time. Most Grand Slam Matches at 353. Most weeks at Number 1 at 310. Fed also is going to pass Connors for all time matches won. 1274-1222. He likely passes Jimmy sometime next year.. Sadly men's Tennis is not in good shape. Fed, Nadal, and Novak all old, and nobody is coming up. No young players are doing much of anything. So maybe Novak wins some more on the very back end with no challenges. But Fed is the GOAT. He did everything.
    Nah, Fed has choked a whopping 22 match points in his career far far more than. Coma or nadal

    He also has a mediocre head to head against both nadal and Djokovic

    Federer played during some insanely weak completion in 2004-2097 and choked like crazy in the pressure moments

    He had an amazing run, probably number 2 all time but Djokovic is the GOAT. His peak in 2015 was the highest level tennis has ever been played at. Absolutely unplayable

    He’ll definitely overtake Fed in GS total and crush him head to head

  7. #7
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Nah, Fed has choked a whopping 22 match points in his career far far more than. Coma or nadal

    He also has a mediocre head to head against both nadal and Djokovic

    Federer played during some insanely weak completion in 2004-2097 and choked like crazy in the pressure moments

    He had an amazing run, probably number 2 all time but Djokovic is the GOAT. His peak in 2015 was the highest level tennis has ever been played at. Absolutely unplayable

    Heíll definitely overtake Fed in GS total and crush him head to head
    Explain to me how Roger is not the greatest of all time given everything I just laid out? I already explained it to you. He has every record in the book. Every single ing one of them. Tennis is different than other sports because we are talking individual. So everything you do you did it individually. There was no team bullshit. Roger owns every single ing record. Winning 21 grand slams is not enough to prove you were the best of all time. Not when the other guy owns everything else. And explain to me whoever in tennis history at age 38 has double match point against a legend in his prime? Nobody was even playing tennis at 38. I mean Roger is so far and away the greatest.

  8. #8
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Novak By the way he was injured as little as two years ago and nobody had him in the greatest of all time discussion. It’s only in the last year people have thrown him back in. How quickly people forget.

  9. #9
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    Novak By the way he was injured as little as two years ago and nobody had him in the greatest of all time discussion. Itís only in the last year people have thrown him back in. How quickly people forget.
    Not true at all:


    https://www.si.com/tennis/2016/06/05...ay-career-slam

    https://metro.co.uk/2017/12/07/rafae...derer-7139597/

    https://www.theroar.com.au/2016/06/0...-now-the-goat/

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-us-open-title

    Those are all from several years ago

    Novak has had FIFTEEN grand slams this decade to Federer's 5. Federer has a huge mental block against both his biggest rivals in Novak and Nadal.

    Federer also crumbles under pressure. Djokovic will break Federer's record of most weeks at #1 as well as Grand Slams. He's also held all 4 grand slams at once something Federer has never done.

    I mean Federer's H2H is shocking for someone who is considered the GOAT. He had his time, and has crumbled many more times to his rivals than they have against him.

    Federer has been doing a great job for his age, but Djokovic's C game (like the recent wimbledon final) beats Federer's B+ game.

    Djokovic is steam rolling with no opposition in sight. Nadal will also overtake his GS total even though I'd still have Federer as #2 since most of Nadal's have been so much on clay.


    When we look at advanced stats with ELO rating Djokovic absolutely CRUSHES it:

    https://tennisabstract.com/reports/atp_elo_ratings.html


    When we even re-look at them so their ages align, Djokovic wins out again:




    Fed early on beat an aging agassi and samprass

    The first great player Federer faced to win a grand slam was a #7 seed 35-year-old Agassi to win his sixth major. He was mostly playing against other guys his own age (Hewitt/Roddick/Safin) in his early dominance, without any greats standing in his way.

    There was a decade-long gap between Sampras (born 1971) and Federer (born 1981) without a single all-time great, which made it very easy for him to breakthrough. Conversely, there is now seemingly no great player born after Djokovic for at least a decade, which is making his late career easier I agree with that.

    But at the end of the day, Djokovic is inevitable. When people look back at the Fed/Dokovic rivalry and Djokovic/Nadal rivalry Djokovic towers above the rest.

    Djokovic will be holding a lot of records himself when all is said and done. His injury nearly derailed him but he bounced back beautifully. He's only 32 and I think he'll finish with 22 slams.
    Last edited by Amuseddaysleeper; 07-28-2019 at 03:00 AM.

  10. #10
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    Meh, give me Prime Federer over Prime Djokovic any day of the week.
    Prime fed is the GOAT prime.
    Honestly, 2011 and 2015 Djokovic is better than any year of peak Federer.

  11. #11
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Honestly, 2011 and 2015 Djokovic is better than any year of peak Federer.
    lol no. Prime Federer Made Djokovic his Match after Match. Prime Djokovic always had a hard time beating Roger.

  12. #12
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    lol no. Prime Federer Made Djokovic his Match after Match. Prime Djokovic always had a hard time beating Roger.
    Haha what?! Djokovic pre 2008 was a kid, Djokovic has OWNED Federer since 2008 is 4-1 vs him in GS finals

    How can you possibly be serious?!

    Federer has been Djokovic’s for a majority of his career. Federer was still amazing and only 28 in 2011 and was getting cucked by Djokovic time and time again.

  13. #13
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Haha what?! Djokovic pre 2008 was a kid, Djokovic has OWNED Federer since 2008 is 4-1 vs him in GS finals

    How can you possibly be serious?!

    Federer has been Djokovicís for a majority of his career. Federer was still amazing and only 28 in 2011 and was getting cucked by Djokovic time and time again.
    Uh Roger is almost 40 and how did Wimbledon just go? Did he get smoked in 3 sets or something? He had 2 match points on his serve. Roger blew that match more than Novak won it. He is about 6 years older. The all time Head to Head is 26-22 for Novak, and you talk like Fed is losing 40-8... Through 20 matches in 2011 Roger was up 13-7. By 2015 it was 20-20. Novak has won 5 in a row from 2015 on now facing an old Fed. But Fed is doing at 37 and 38 what nobody has done, or ever will again. Novak got a long way to go. He needs 5 to pass Fed. That is a lot of Majors and injuries are never to be discounted. Plus Young guys come out of nowhere. Stefano Tsitsipas for example is someone to keep an eye on..

  14. #14
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Haha what?! Djokovic pre 2008 was a kid, Djokovic has OWNED Federer since 2008 is 4-1 vs him in GS finals

    How can you possibly be serious?!

    Federer has been Djokovic’s for a majority of his career. Federer was still amazing and only 28 in 2011 and was getting cucked by Djokovic time and time again.
    Prime Federer used to smoke a non-prime Djokovic in 3 easy sets. Prime Djokovic always had to pull escape tricks to survive non-prime Federer. Prime Federer is just a much more dominating player than prime Djokovic ever was.

  15. #15
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    Prime Federer used to smoke a non-prime Djokovic in 3 easy sets. Prime Djokovic always had to pull escape tricks to survive non-prime Federer. Prime Federer is just a much more dominating player than prime Djokovic ever was.
    And I bet you had 2011 or 2015 Djokovic played a pre-prime Federer he'd beat him in straight sets as well. By any metric 2011 and 2015 Djokovic was the GOAT, his 2015 might be the greatest season in tennis history when you factor in competition as well.


    Uh Roger is almost 40 and how did Wimbledon just go? Did he get smoked in 3 sets or something? He had 2 match points on his serve. Roger blew that match more than Novak won it. He is about 6 years older. The all time Head to Head is 26-22 for Novak, and you talk like Fed is losing 40-8... Through 20 matches in 2011 Roger was up 13-7. By 2015 it was 20-20. Novak has won 5 in a row from 2015 on now facing an old Fed. But Fed is doing at 37 and 38 what nobody has done, or ever will again. Novak got a long way to go. He needs 5 to pass Fed. That is a lot of Majors and injuries are never to be discounted. Plus Young guys come out of nowhere. Stefano Tsitsipas for example is someone to keep an eye on..
    Even if you remove the grand slams from 2015 onward, you still have a VERY good Federer betwen 2010-2014 (part of which was still his prime) and Djokovic has doubled his Grand slam tally for this decade which case prior to 2015 he was up 10-5 in grand slams.

    Federer had it pretty easy for the most part from 2004-2007, and then when it got harder he flustered a bit. Djokovic had it very tough from 2008 onward when he started winning slams and only very lately has the competition softened up as Federer aged and Nadal has been hit by some injuries in the past. I know anything can happen, and Djokovic's horrible drought during his injury period had many doubting if he'd ever find his form again, but he's still head and shoulders above the competition, with a huge advantage on hard courts. He's the greatest hard court player ever and I think when he retires he'll be the greatest grass court player ever as well.

    5 more isn't an easy feat but I think when all is said and done he'll have the GS record as well as most weeks at #1 all time record.


    For Feder, his two biggest rivals he has a losing record against. I agree it's not a crazy W-L deficit but it's there from BOTH his biggest rivals. And it's been much worse this decade.

    I think Djokovic played a painfully mediocre wimbledon final, I'd struggle to give him above a C. A lot of stupid unforced errors and poor serving that is uncharacteristic of him.

    Federer played a B+ overall and still lost. That' the scary thing. Djokovic doesn't have to play at nearly a high level to beat Federer whereas Federer has to have a near perfect game to beat Novak.

    Even in 2011 and 2012 US Open matches where Federer choked, he had such a massive mental block against Novak this decade it's unreal. Novak has an extra gear that Federer doesn't have. Novak can sleepwalk through sets and then flip a switch and be unplayable. His ceiling is the highest in tennis history for me.

    Whatever happens it'll be fun to see who retires with what. Yet, for some reason I can't have Nadal ever being my GOAT personally, but maybe that's just me

  16. #16
    TRU 'cross mah stomach LaMarcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Federer the GOAT until otherwise proven.

    Was disappointing to see him choke championship point to Joker, however
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  17. #17
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    And I bet you had 2011 or 2015 Djokovic played a pre-prime Federer he'd beat him in straight sets as well. By any metric 2011 and 2015 Djokovic was the GOAT, his 2015 might be the greatest season in tennis history when you factor in competition as well.




    Even if you remove the grand slams from 2015 onward, you still have a VERY good Federer betwen 2010-2014 (part of which was still his prime) and Djokovic has doubled his Grand slam tally for this decade which case prior to 2015 he was up 10-5 in grand slams.

    Federer had it pretty easy for the most part from 2004-2007, and then when it got harder he flustered a bit. Djokovic had it very tough from 2008 onward when he started winning slams and only very lately has the competition softened up as Federer aged and Nadal has been hit by some injuries in the past. I know anything can happen, and Djokovic's horrible drought during his injury period had many doubting if he'd ever find his form again, but he's still head and shoulders above the competition, with a huge advantage on hard courts. He's the greatest hard court player ever and I think when he retires he'll be the greatest grass court player ever as well.

    5 more isn't an easy feat but I think when all is said and done he'll have the GS record as well as most weeks at #1 all time record.


    For Feder, his two biggest rivals he has a losing record against. I agree it's not a crazy W-L deficit but it's there from BOTH his biggest rivals. And it's been much worse this decade.

    I think Djokovic played a painfully mediocre wimbledon final, I'd struggle to give him above a C. A lot of stupid unforced errors and poor serving that is uncharacteristic of him.

    Federer played a B+ overall and still lost. That' the scary thing. Djokovic doesn't have to play at nearly a high level to beat Federer whereas Federer has to have a near perfect game to beat Novak.

    Even in 2011 and 2012 US Open matches where Federer choked, he had such a massive mental block against Novak this decade it's unreal. Novak has an extra gear that Federer doesn't have. Novak can sleepwalk through sets and then flip a switch and be unplayable. His ceiling is the highest in tennis history for me.

    Whatever happens it'll be fun to see who retires with what. Yet, for some reason I can't have Nadal ever being my GOAT personally, but maybe that's just me
    Oh, yeah? And here I was thinking that by the objective metric of winning % Federer's 2006 season was better than any Djokovic season. Silly me, I thought the higher the number, the better.
    Last edited by DAF86; 07-29-2019 at 03:26 PM.

  18. #18
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    At the end of the day, it's easy. If Djokovic (or Nadal) want to claim the GOAT tittle, all they have to do is get that number one spot in terms of Slams won. Untill then, it's Federer.

  19. #19
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    At the end of the day, it's easy. If Djokovic (or Nadal) want to claim the GOAT tittle, all they have to do is get that number one spot in terms of Slams won. Untill then, it's Federer.
    I actually disagree. I think it needs to be more than that. Fed owns everything. 21 slams to his 20 is not enough to take the GOAT tag from him IMO. The man owns every major record in the books not just slams won. Novak has a tough time ahead, mostly because he is immensely unpopular with fans, and the media. The crowds when he plays a player like Fed or Rafa root against him to the point of anger and jealousy on his part. If he is up against a youngster in the US Open Finals this year, he will be rooted against again. Maybe he uses that as further fuel. But I don't see fans and media ever really giving it up to him as the GOAT.. He Is not someone they admire.

  20. #20
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    I actually disagree. I think it needs to be more than that. Fed owns everything. 21 slams to his 20 is not enough to take the GOAT tag from him IMO. The man owns every major record in the books not just slams won. Novak has a tough time ahead, mostly because he is immensely unpopular with fans, and the media. The crowds when he plays a player like Fed or Rafa root against him to the point of anger and jealousy on his part. If he is up against a youngster in the US Open Finals this year, he will be rooted against again. Maybe he uses that as further fuel. But I don't see fans and media ever really giving it up to him as the GOAT.. He Is not someone they admire.
    Roger doesn't own every major record, tbh. He doesn't own the master series rťcord and he has losing h2h against both Nadal and Djokovic.

    My favourite will always be Roger, and in terms of prime, he was clearly the best, imho. But if either Nadal or Djokovic pass him on GS's they have a good case to be considered the GOAT over him.

  21. #21
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Roger doesn't own every major record, tbh. He doesn't own the master series rťcord and he has losing h2h against both Nadal and Djokovic.

    My favourite will always be Roger, and in terms of prime, he was clearly the best, imho. But if either Nadal or Djokovic pass him on GS's they have a good case to be considered the GOAT over him.
    Most weeks at number 1
    Most GS titles
    Most Finals, SF, QF,
    Most Grand Slams played
    He will pass Conors for most matches won next year..


    That is a mouthful.. Novak has won about 400 less total matches.. Fed has 102 titles. Novak has 75..

  22. #22
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Most weeks at number 1
    Most GS titles
    Most Finals, SF, QF,
    Most Grand Slams played
    He will pass Conors for most matches won next year..


    That is a mouthful.. Novak has won about 400 less total matches.. Fed has 102 titles. Novak has 75..
    Most GS played and most QF, SF and finals are meaningless records. If Djokovic ends up as the all-time leading winner in GS's, Master Series and ends with a winning % vs both Roger and Rafa, it would be really hard to argue against him being the GOAT. As much as it would pain me to say it.

  23. #23
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Most GS played and most QF, SF and finals are meaningless records. If Djokovic ends up as the all-time leading winner in GS's, Master Series and ends with a winning % vs both Roger and Rafa, it would be really hard to argue against him being the GOAT. As much as it would pain me to say it.
    Meaningless record according to who? Every single time he advances in a grand slam those statistics are brought up. It is an amazing testament to longevity. People talk about Pete Sampras as being top three or top five all time. The man literally won 500 less tennis matches than Roger. That shit matters. It counts. By your logic these players should only show up four times a year. That all of these other tournaments they playing mean jack shit, so donít bother even competing. Thatís not how it works. Every time you step on the court it matters. If certain people simply want to count grand slam titles OK fine. I wonít. I will look at the entirety of a manís career.
    Last edited by dbreiden83080; 07-30-2019 at 01:21 AM.

  24. #24
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Meaningless record according to who? Every single time he advances in a grand slam those statistics are brought up. It is an amazing testament to longevity. People talk about Pete Sampras as being top three or top five all time. The man literally won 500 less tennis matches than Roger. That shit matters. It counts. By your logic these players should only show up four times a year. That all of these other tournaments they playing mean jack shit, so donít bother even competing. Thatís not how it works. Every time you step on the court it matters. If certain people simply want to count grand slam titles OK fine. I wonít. I will look at the entirety of a manís career.
    Wayne Ferreira once held the record for most Grand Slams played consecutively. Nobody is calling him the GOAT of anything, tbh.

    And what you mean by "my logic" players should only show up 4 times a year? Didn't I brought up "most Master Series won" to the discussion?

    If Djokovic ends up with a head to head advantage over Federer, plus most Master Series won, plus most Grand Slams won, Federer can play a million Grand Slams that it will be hard to objectively rank him over Novak.

    And I'm a huge Federer fan, but I call it how it is, tbh.

  25. #25
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    Wayne Ferreira once held the record for most Grand Slams played consecutively. Nobody is calling him the GOAT of anything, tbh.

    And what you mean by "my logic" players should only show up 4 times a year? Didn't I brought up "most Master Series won" to the discussion?

    If Djokovic ends up with a head to head advantage over Federer, plus most Master Series won, plus most Grand Slams won, Federer can play a million Grand Slams that it will be hard to objectively rank him over Novak.

    And I'm a huge Federer fan, but I call it how it is, tbh.
    Amen, and I think the only records that matter for GOAT will be total GS won and most weeks at #1, something I expect Djokovic to finish with


    Check out this article about Djokovic 2015 vs Federer 2006. Towards the bottom of the article they go into depth about the two seasons in comparison with each other. I think it's spot on personally, but obviously Federer's 2006 is up there:

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...tennis-history

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