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  1. #76
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Its not a little bit embarrassing for the red team that people don’t understand it?
    You seem like a well read person and actually do understand that socialism already is entrenched to a certain level.
    The blue team is beating you guys in pointing out these types of fallacies in THEMSELVES.
    Got to be a little bit disappointed.

    Thread is a fighter. He would be fine with ignorance on his team if it gives him a W. In fact ignorance is probably preferable.
    There is no shame because you got a W. The red team understands the S word will conjure this up.
    Just like the blue team and the occasional misuses of the R (racism) word. But the blue team will grapple with the real definition.
    But, their parents, D&R alike will tell them,,,just out of habit. The tone of their voice will tell the tale.

  2. #77
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Communism is a completely stateless society. Socialism, which is supposed to be an intermediate step toward Communism, still requires a centrally planned economy. Both are ideologies in any event, so the boogeyman is a bit justified. But the re ation comes from how Hannity et al are labeling the ideas of the Democrats, which is just a bog standard mixed economy model that Hannity himself grew up in and that republicans also promote (they just simply want the tax dollars going toward their beloved military) as "evil Socialism."
    Communism is both a political and economic model that you can't separate eachother. If you do, you no longer have communism. Socialism also has political and economic components, but, one is not reliant on the other. You can have certain social economic programs that co-exist just fine with, say, democracy as the political system (and as a matter of fact, that already happens, not just here in the US, but at varying degrees around the world). It's silly to call those types of arrangements a failure. It's also a contradiction. Our military and security apparatus is implicitly a socialist government program, largely funded by tax payers and the state (executed through military contractors, or whatever, but the source of funding is the state). The counter-argument is normally "but that's mandated by the Cons ution"... well, exactly! now, let's revisit the whole "this country was founded in capitalism" in light of that.

    An inquiring mind would ask, why aren't we using capitalism for these programs instead? Why does the government need to fund all these contractors, and instead, let the contractors take all the risk, and then see if there's a buyer? (capitalism 101). Well, because it's not economically viable. The mission is not monetary, it's altruistic. And as such, divorced from ROI, etc. There's no F-35, no U2 bomber, etc without the government money. Plus, there's obviously exclusivity. And it makes sense.

  3. #78
    Done with the NBA
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    Because they have nothing & want to share it.

  4. #79
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Meh. YOu ers will call us socialist no matter what we say or do.

    IDGAF at this point.

  5. #80
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Kyle Vs Fox News | Have Dems Moved Too Far Left?

  6. #81
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    Excellent video rmt

    She's right, poverty is a choice in this country but you won't hear any of the candidates saying that in the upcoming Democratic Communist debate.

  7. #82
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    There's no "truth" there. It's the same old tired "bootstrap" myth that if you just work hard enough, the riches will flow. Conservative lips get tighter than a drum when the clear "truth" is brought up that this country had much more balanced wealth distribution and a lower poverty level when the richest Americans were taxed at a 70 percent marginal rate. This is the "great" time period Trump appeals to and his base supposedly wants to return to.

    Back to debunking the bootstrap myth. Truth: Most people never rise above the economic bracket into which they were born. "The study's takeaway, according to Chetty and Hendren, is the environment one is raised in determines his or her economic mobility."

    https://www.newsweek.com/why-rich-st...ay-poor-363611

    Why does this happen? It's easy enough to infer kids born into wealthier families have much more stable rearing environments (which improves cognitive development, even at the pre-natal level) and money for things like tutors, private schools, and brand name colleges. Furthermore, wealthy families have connections that allow for their children to get a leg up on the compe ion through all manners of nepotism and cronyism. The event that should've exploded the ty bootstrap myth was that college admissions scandal.

    More "truth." To afford the national average monthly rent/mortgage cost, you need to make 22.00 an hour. The federally mandated minimum wage is 7.25 hr. Even the state with the highest minimum wage (where cost of living is higher) is only about 14 an hour. The conserva response to this is that minimum wage jobs are there for teenagers who want some pocket money or job experience and not intended to be a career. This is horse . We're a service economy now, so more and more people have no choice but to rely on minimum wage restaurant and cashier jobs as their means of income (in the "great America," the job market was dominated by relatively high paying factory work that you could get fresh out of high school). Combine this truth with truth number 1, and you can see how immensely difficult upward mobility is.

    The only people who trumpet the bootstrap myth are those that were fortunate enough to buck the odds, and I find it a highly arrogant position to say, "Well, if I could do it, so can you. Just work harder!" There's plenty of janitors and fast food workers working plenty hard, but they won't find the same opportunity path as the bootstrapper who speaks in Horatio Alger clichés. Every person's situation is different.
    Name one company in SA only paying minimum wage.

  8. #83
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    Meh. YOu ers will call us socialist no matter what we say or do.

    IDGAF at this point.
    Hey Commie, you're calling yourselves socialist these days.

  9. #84
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    My best friend is a mechanic. He literally works all day. From 8 AM to 5.30 PM he works in a Renault company. From there, he goes to his house, where he has his private workshop, and works untill 12 AM. Monday to Sunday. He barely makes it through the month.

    My second best friend has rich parents. Has a house, a beach house, a car, a pickup truck and three motorbikes. He never worked in his life.

    Meritocracy

  10. #85
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    My best friend is a mechanic. He literally works all day. From 8 AM to 5.30 PM he works in a Renault company. From there, he goes to his house, where he has his private workshop, and works untill 12 AM. Monday to Sunday. He barely makes it through the month.
    He spending too much then....choices.

  11. #86
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    No one wants to address the wealth distribution the way no one wants to address Americans overall not being fiscally responsible and luxury spending being at all time highs.

    Americans just refuse to accept personal responsibility to some degree. We're gluttonous, spend-happy consumers, period. And if we did have the epiphany and were fiscally responsible, the global economy would tank and we'd be blamed. Damned if we do, damned if we dont.

  12. #87
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    He spending too much then....choices.
    "Choices", he barely covers his basic needs.

    If you told that insensitive, provocative to my friend's face he would kick the out of you, tbh.

  13. #88
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    "Choices", he barely covers his basic needs.

    If you told that insensitive, provocative to my friend's face he would kick the out of you, tbh.
    This is the type of garbage they spew on Fox News. , no wonder their viewers are scared of socialism and worship capitalism.

    EVERYTHING is our fault. Nevermind the fact that the system is rigged. Nevermind that law and order does not apply to the rich. Nevermind that the elites want us working like slaves for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Nevermind that some people are forced to take jobs they hate cuz they have bills to pay. Nevermind that half the country is living paycheck to paycheck and should they dare to quit their job to find something better they would lose their home and car. Everything is our fault for existing. We're just not part of the lucky sperm club . This is corporate America we can't afford to give everyone healthcare, fix and improve our public education and fix our criminal justice system because we need money to give to Israel. We need every penny to maintain our evil empire so that we can keep dominating the world through brute force and coercion. If you dare to speak out you're unAmerican and an antisemite.
    Last edited by TheGreatYacht; 09-04-2019 at 05:50 PM.

  14. #89
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Capitalism & Wage Slavery - The Illusion of Freedom

  15. #90
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    My best friend is a mechanic. He literally works all day. From 8 AM to 5.30 PM he works in a Renault company. From there, he goes to his house, where he has his private workshop, and works untill 12 AM. Monday to Sunday. He barely makes it through the month.

    My second best friend has rich parents. Has a house, a beach house, a car, a pickup truck and three motorbikes. He never worked in his life.

    Meritocracy
    A good diagnostic mechanic in SA can make 100k+ in san antonio working 40 hour weeks. Not sure what's wrong with your friend unless hes just a parts changer that hasn't learned the computer end of the job.

  16. #91
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Master-Slave Dialectic in Capitalism and What to Do About It

  17. #92
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    A good diagnostic mechanic in SA can make 100k+ in san antonio working 40 hour weeks. Not sure what's wrong with your friend unless hes just a parts changer that hasn't learned the computer end of the job.
    My friend is an orphan that used to live in the street when he was a boy. He had to quit school at age 13 so that he could feed himself. Later on, he was lucky enough to fell in love with a girl that had a great family, and his father in law took him under his arm and taught him how to be a mechanic. He made the most out of the cards he was dealt with. Not everybody has the chance of learning the "computer end of the job", tbh. You lack human sensitivity, empathy and variety of life experiences to understand things like these.

  18. #93
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    "Choices", he barely covers his basic needs.

    If you told that insensitive, provocative to my friend's face he would kick the out of you, tbh.
    Well that speaks to his ability to make good choices

  19. #94
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    My friend who is easily triggered and prone to violence is having a tough time getting ahead. System is rigged.

  20. #95
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Well that speaks to his ability to make good choices
    He went from being a homeless orphan to a house owner and proud provider for his wife and two sons. I'd say his choice making abilities are pretty good.

  21. #96
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    FDR's Second Bill of Rights

    "It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

    This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

    As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

    We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men."[3] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

    In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

    Among these are:

    The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
    The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
    The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
    The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair compe ion and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
    The right of every family to a decent home;
    The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
    The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
    The right to a good education.
    All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

    America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."

    - Franklin D. Roosevelt
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights



    We need FDR 2.0 (Bernie Sanders) to fulfill these economic bill of rights

  22. #97
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    My friend is an orphan that used to live in the street when he was a boy. He had to quit school at age 13 so that he could feed himself. Later on, he was lucky enough to fell in love with a girl that had a great family, and his father in law took him under his arm and taught him how to be a mechanic. He made the most out of the cards he was dealt with. Not everybody has the chance of learning the "computer end of the job", tbh. You lack human sensitivity, empathy and variety of life experiences to understand things like these.
    you. I simply stated what a qualified diagnostic mechanic makes in SA.

  23. #98
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Hey Commie, you're calling yourselves socialist these days.
    Democratic Socialism is not what you think it is.

    You would be hard pressed to even define it, wallowing in right-wing propaganda.

    When your understanding of something is based on distorted strawmen, i.e. lies, you fail to understand reality, which does not care about your own delusions, and what you want to be true.

    I find that funny.

  24. #99
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    My friend is an orphan that used to live in the street when he was a boy. He had to quit school at age 13 so that he could feed himself. Later on, he was lucky enough to fell in love with a girl that had a great family, and his father in law took him under his arm and taught him how to be a mechanic. He made the most out of the cards he was dealt with. Not everybody has the chance of learning the "computer end of the job", tbh. You lack human sensitivity, empathy and variety of life experiences to understand things like these.
    In my experience people who self-identify as conservatives tend to lack empathy, and tend to blame victims.

    "people are poor because of bad choices" is a commonly held belief.

    The reality is that the US has pretty "sticky" poverty, and isn't some magic land of opportunity lionized by right wing media.

    Further, what we know about human psychology is that the causal connection between bad decisions and poverty is actually the OPPOSITE of that. People make bad choices because they are poor.

    https://www.princeton.edu/news/2013/...her-areas-life

    https://review.chicagobooth.edu/beha...-your-mind-set

    CosmicCowboy is fairly reasonable as far as things go, but would probably dismiss this new information as it conflicts with his thinking, another facet of "conservatism" that limits it's usefulness when it comes to forming evidence-based policies. Conservatives struggle with confirmation bias.

  25. #100
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    My friend who is easily triggered and prone to violence is having a tough time getting ahead. System is rigged.
    Gonna bookmark this for when Trump loses the 2020 election.

    The claims of "it was rigged" will become a vast chorus of Trump supporters claiming some sort of white victimhood, and I would put the odds that chorus causing some stochastic right-wing violence to be pretty high, given the violent tendencies of right-wing politics.

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