Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 120
  1. #1
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    14,006
    https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/07/nba...tent=home-hero

    In this article I've linked above, a freelance sport writer for USA Today, Charles Curtis (based in New York, of course), seems to think the best solution for tampering in the NBA is to get rid of the tampering rules altogether. He applauds Sam Presti for saying small market teams have to find new and creative ways to be compe ive, and then points to two examples of this in action...Indiana and Salt Lake City...two teams that, oddly enough, haven't done sh!t when it comes to actually hoisting the O'Brien trophy. He doesn't even acknowledge the ultimate small market franchise, the San Antonio Spurs, and how the model of small market franchises has been completely compromised by collusion and the lack of enforceable and equitable rules now for the second consecutive off season. This article absolutely pissed me off because you realize immediately he gives a royal " you" to basically 20+ franchises when suggesting his "solution" to the issue. weed. The fact that his stuff gets into print by USA Today, and makes the front page of MSN.com is mind boggling to be quite honest. It's the ultimate in "let them eat cake" article when referring to the plight of mid- and small market teams and their fan bases, and how the disparity between these markets and major markets should be handled.

    The fact that no significant free agent move this off season involved ANY small or mid-market team landing a major free agent signing should be a clear sign of a problem, and this issue is likely going to be the new norm, unless something changes in a major way. If players and agents can collude and form super teams, that trend won't stop, and their choice of venue will ALWAYS be a major destination. Would two superstars choose to team up in Oklahoma City, Charlotte, or Memphis versus a playing together in a major market city? Los Angeles and New York (New Jersey) should win almost every top signing sweepstakes when we're talking about young superstar millionaires teaming up to win les who have the world at their fingertips. LA and New York are the dream destination for these guys...the equivalent of the super hot model that everyone wants to date. Cities like Houston, Dallas, Boston, and Miami? Those would also qualify as attractive cities, just somewhat less so, and for different reasons...these equate to the 30-40 year old MILF, not deep on substance, but with a ton of cash and a hot bod. San Francisco you ask? Yeah, it can continue to be attractive...as long as the winning holds up. But once the body of winning gets saggy...well, it's over. We'll check in on you in another 40 years, Golden State. And as for our beloved San Antonio? Even if we have cap space I'm fairly certain we won't be able to do much with it beyond a hope to create some loyalty with our own development, and, best case, retain our own players. The Spurs weren't a major free agent draw when we were winning 60 games a year, and I don't expect that to change. In this dating/appeal scenario, we've been that badass female who knew herself, exuded supreme confidence, maybe not possessing the external features that draw in the superficial, but was a winner that anyone of character would be naturally attracted to, and we were smart enough to keep those close to us happy and satisfied for the most part. As for the rest of the NBA?? ed...and not literally. They're the single old lady virgin with a house full of cats, wearing hair covered sweaters and smelling like urine.

    The solution to all of this mess won't come from ignoring the problem, or simply removing the rule because, well, no one pays attention to it anyway. Again, off Charles Curtis. The solution is creating a scenario that is enforceable. Restructure the damn CBA if you have to, and put hard rules in place. Then, get a commissioner that cares more for the league and all of its member cities than he cares about a limited number of markets, and the glee of building social media buzz in the off season. Adam Silver in the hot girl scenario plays the cuckold, an idiot standing idly by with a stupid smile on his face while his wife is breaking every rule imaginable simply because she wants to. "I guess if she's happy" he'll utter to himself, shortly before putting a shotgun in his mouth and pulling the trigger with his toe.





    Anyway...I digress. A lot of us remember baseball in the late '90s and early 2000s, when the MLB was enamored by the plethora of home run production from its players, and the attention their league was getting from guys rewriting a century's worth of record-books. Attendance soared, and baseball had a social "buzz" it hadn't experienced in years. Unfortunately, all of that excitement came crashing down to earth when the focus later shifted to the steroid scandal, and the fact that that league blatantly ignored its own rules. The long term effect was that the league lost a lot of it's long-time, purist fan base, and most of the fly-by-night bandwagon fans who jumped on during the long-ball era moved on to their next distraction as soon a baseballs weren't jumping out of the yard. Since that time attendance for the sport has been on a steady decline in the majority of its markets, and appears to be on course to suffer a slow painful death without a major restructuring. With 162 game seasons, and over 150 years of existence, the league could wallow in its own filth for another 25 years before its death becomes imminent, but I believe it's coming.

    For the NBA, ignoring the needs of the majority of its markets to be compe ive creates a very real long-term risk of alienating entire portions of the country and creating a similar result to what happened with MLB. I've lived in Phoenix for several years, and in that time I have attended three times as many NBA games in other cities than I do there, and really, I only attend a home game if the opponent is worth buying a ticket for...not to watch the home team. While Phoenix's issues are due more to poor ownership and management than anything else, this same lethargic fanbase result will play itself out in 20+ or so other NBA arenas if all fans in these outer markets get every year is an average to poor product to be asked to support. Casual fans (non-NBA diehards like myself) will turn away from the sport in droves and the league will ultimately suffer. Fans are smarter than they were during the large market dominant era of the 1970s and '80s. Fans now have more entertainment choices and often a budget that doesn't include hundreds to thousands of dollars to attend basketball games to watch losing clubs. Even teams like the Spurs, as hard as they work to stay attractive, will ultimately lose their luster if they continually get punched in the mouth losing out on even mid-tier free agents without any recourse or opportunity to capitalize on their winning formula.

    So Adam Silver, if you have a brain, and a soul, and a back bone, ignore guys like Charles Curtis, and run this league like a man with integrity...not a spineless little yes man.
    Last edited by Ed Helicopter Jones; 07-25-2019 at 07:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Post Count
    1,319
    One big issue with the NBA is that so much of their revenue come from TV and merchandising--and those revolve around individual players and high-profile teams. I think, over time, we'll end up seeing a de facto 2-tier league where the small market teams that draft well/develop players effectively act as feeders to the high-profile teams. I don't think the league really wants to change too much since these developments help their national/global tv ratings and merchandising. The local fanbase (i.e., those who actually attend games) is no longer the most important demographic/revenue generators when the games are broadcast and market on such national/global scale.
    Last edited by toki9; 07-25-2019 at 09:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Post Count
    3,748
    So many words.

  4. #4
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Post Count
    24,579
    The WWENBA can go itself.

    Roger Goodell is a relative angel.

  5. #5
    Veteran John B's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Post Count
    10,727
    As long as Spurs continue to draft smart, develop G League players and combination of savvy veterans, we should be okay. The rest of the small market teams are ed. Kiwi was an exception. He was a neurotic idiot who had a greedy even more idiotic uncle.

  6. #6
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    2,769
    I fear the established paradigm has changed and the small market teams are now farm teams for the handful of big market teams. I've read on the Lakers board where they will target the Greek Freak in 2021. The players, the league, the networks and shoe companies are all partners in this.

  7. #7
    5. timvp's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Post Count
    59,748
    One of the better rants I've read in awhile, Ed Helicopter Jones

    This offseason took collusion to a new level. We've never seen big signings become all but official days before the free agency period was supposed to even start. I mean, for example, Kemba was somehow a lock for the Celtics long before they were legally allowed to talk to him. How does something like that happen without Silver even pretending to do anything about it?

    And you're right, big picture-wise, the current policy helps at most a quarter of the teams. The rest of the league is fighting an embarrassingly unfair fight. And it's trending the wrong way.

    Does Silver care? Doesn't look like it.

    Hopefully the Holt kids will stand up and fight for small market teams like their dad did, tbh.

  8. #8
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Post Count
    4,769
    Nice post, OP. But I can't pass up this opportunity to say ...


  9. #9
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    2,319
    Agree. Believe Silver is the wrong man to be in charge of the NBA. He's been complicit with everything.

    Media likes to show that its possible to win without being a big market, some give examples of SA and Milwaukee. But Spurs lucked out with 2 generational players in a different era within the CBA (And came close to losing both) in addition to drafting 2 european players of like mind. Milwaukee got lucky with Giannis and clock is ticking on him as well. Who is to say that he doesn't bolt once MKE is a free agent or doesn't demand a trade? These are exemptions to the rule, but the media likes to play them up.

    Small to mid market teams have to get lucky in the lottery and hope to win quickly. I wouldn't be surprised in stars start just taking the qualifying offer when they hit RFA instead of signing a max extension going forward.

    I've stopped watching games. I've stopped paying for games since Kwahi pulled his crap.

    My involvement is spurstalk and occ NBA radio, but I get fed up listening to it now.

  10. #10
    tv screen baseline bum sananspursfan21's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Post Count
    4,244
    This offseason was considered one of if not the craziest and most entertaining ever. More so than summer of 2010. But, this offseason has been crowned by the most casual, WWE style fans. And that’s exactly who Silver wants sadly. Man, and I thought Stern was bad. I’d kill for Stern right now. And that’s saying something...

  11. #11
    Kill4Fun SpurSpike's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Post Count
    831
    How about a rule that says if you play in the NBA you cannot get endorsement deals. They are paid well enough already right?

    Or if any are allowed then all endorsements for any players have to be through the NBA commissioner and not through the players and that money is then redistributed into the players as a whole as a sort of advertising bonus. Essentially meaning the players are simply employees of the NBA and it's their duty to promote the Sport. They already get a larger cap as the sport grows so its not like they aren't already incentivised to advertise.

    Only problem with that though is that the all star players would have to do most of the advertising but to give them a little power you can give them the option to decline on advertising if it requires long distance travel or they have already done their fair share of advertising.

    I'm kinda joking here but this really would eliminate any disadvantage small teams have when it comes to keeping players around because the real problem stems from the cap being ineffective. Instead of the richest team hording all the players its the largest advertising markets who can get players more money.

  12. #12
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Post Count
    4,903
    It's a good article, and a pretty accurate rant. Your recollection of the home run madness in MLB, and the subsequent steroid crash was especially on-target.

    The thing is, they're making a lot more short-run money this way and that's all Silver sees or cares about. I understand that there are enough small-market owners who don't care - as long as their share of the revenues make them profitable, and the team valuations keep going up. They get to be celebrities now and still make money, and the team valuation is their exit plan. Holt and a few others will raise , but I don't think they can generate the weight/votes to force any kind of meaningful change. I have no doubt that Silver will pay lip service, though, and parade a plan that they can claim addresses the problem, but doesn't change what's important. They'll just have to be a little more subtle about doing what they do.

    If they prove me wrong, I'll be the first one to celebrate.

  13. #13
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Post Count
    656
    Agree. Believe Silver is the wrong man to be in charge of the NBA. He's been complicit with everything.

    Media likes to show that its possible to win without being a big market, some give examples of SA and Milwaukee. But Spurs lucked out with 2 generational players in a different era within the CBA (And came close to losing both) in addition to drafting 2 european players of like mind. Milwaukee got lucky with Giannis and clock is ticking on him as well. Who is to say that he doesn't bolt once MKE is a free agent or doesn't demand a trade? These are exemptions to the rule, but the media likes to play them up.

    Small to mid market teams have to get lucky in the lottery and hope to win quickly. I wouldn't be surprised in stars start just taking the qualifying offer when they hit RFA instead of signing a max extension going forward.

    I've stopped watching games. I've stopped paying for games since Kwahi pulled his crap.

    My involvement is spurstalk and occ NBA radio, but I get fed up listening to it now.
    can't win quickly any more with the one and done.

  14. #14
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Post Count
    656
    Some rule changes would stop a lot of it. If a team finish the season as a playoff seed than team should not be allowed to aquire more than one all star either by trade or free agency in the off season. If you are a non play off team than you can aquire 2 allstars.

  15. #15
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trail Blazers
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Post Count
    28,727
    Fortunately the Blazers have the best team this year and we have a loyal leader. We also have a secret weapon. Wait till you get a look at him!

  16. #16
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Post Count
    4,903
    Fortunately the Blazers have the best team this year and we have a loyal leader. We also have a secret weapon. Wait till you get a look at him!

    We already had him on the team, and paid him to go away.

  17. #17
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    14,364
    https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/07/nba...tent=home-hero

    In this article I've linked above, a freelance sport writer for USA Today, Charles Curtis (based in New York, of course), seems to think the best solution for tampering in the NBA is to get rid of the tampering rules altogether. He applauds Sam Presti for saying small market teams have to find new and creative ways to be compe ive, and then points to two examples of this in action...Indiana and Salt Lake City...two teams that, oddly enough, haven't done sh!t when it comes to actually hoisting the O'Brien trophy. He doesn't even acknowledge the ultimate small market franchise, the San Antonio Spurs, and how the model of small market franchises has been completely compromised by collusion and the lack of enforceable and equitable rules now for the second consecutive off season. This article absolutely pissed me off because you realize immediately he gives a royal " you" to basically 20+ franchises when suggesting his "solution" to the issue. weed. The fact that his stuff gets into print by USA Today, and makes the front page of MSN.com is mind boggling to be quite honest. It's the ultimate in "let them eat cake" article when referring to the plight of mid- and small market teams and their fan bases, and how the disparity between these markets and major markets should be handled.

    The fact that no significant free agent move this off season involved ANY small or mid-market team landing a major free agent signing should be a clear sign of a problem, and this issue is likely going to be the new norm, unless something changes in a major way. If players and agents can collude and form super teams, that trend won't stop, and their choice of venue will ALWAYS be a major destination. Would two superstars choose to team up in Oklahoma City, Charlotte, or Memphis versus a playing together in a major market city? Los Angeles and New York (New Jersey) should win almost every top signing sweepstakes when we're talking about young superstar millionaires teaming up to win les who have the world at their fingertips. LA and New York are the dream destination for these guys...the equivalent of the super hot model that everyone wants to date. Cities like Houston, Dallas, Boston, and Miami? Those would also qualify as attractive cities, just somewhat less so, and for different reasons...these equate to the 30-40 year old MILF, not deep on substance, but with a ton of cash and a hot bod. San Francisco you ask? Yeah, it can continue to be attractive...as long as the winning holds up. But once the body of winning gets saggy...well, it's over. We'll check in on you in another 40 years, Golden State. And as for our beloved San Antonio? Even if we have cap space I'm fairly certain we won't be able to do much with it beyond a hope to create some loyalty with our own development, and, best case, retain our own players. The Spurs weren't a major free agent draw when we were winning 60 games a year, and I don't expect that to change. In this dating/appeal scenario, we've been that badass female who knew herself, exuded supreme confidence, maybe not possessing the external features that draw in the superficial, but was a winner that anyone of character would be naturally attracted to, and we were smart enough to keep those close to us happy and satisfied for the most part. As for the rest of the NBA?? ed...and not literally. They're the single old lady virgin with a house full of cats, wearing hair covered sweaters and smelling like urine.

    The solution to all of this mess won't come from ignoring the problem, or simply removing the rule because, well, no one pays attention to it anyway. Again, off Charles Curtis. The solution is creating a scenario that is enforceable. Restructure the damn CBA if you have to, and put hard rules in place. Then, get a commissioner that cares more for the league and all of its member cities than he cares about a limited number of markets, and the glee of building social media buzz in the off season. Adam Silver in the hot girl scenario plays the cuckold, an idiot standing idly by with a stupid smile on his face while his wife is breaking every rule imaginable simply because she wants to. "I guess if she's happy" he'll utter to himself, shortly before putting a shotgun in his mouth and pulling the trigger with his toe.





    Anyway...I digress. A lot of us remember baseball in the late '90s and early 2000s, when the MLB was enamored by the plethora of home run production from its players, and the attention their league was getting from guys rewriting a century's worth of record-books. Attendance soared, and baseball had a social "buzz" it hadn't experienced in years. Unfortunately, all of that excitement came crashing down to earth when the focus later shifted to the steroid scandal, and the fact that that league blatantly ignored its own rules. The long term effect was that the league lost a lot of it's long-time, purist fan base, and most of the fly-by-night bandwagon fans who jumped on during the long-ball era moved on to their next distraction as soon a baseballs weren't jumping out of the yard. Since that time attendance for the sport has been on a steady decline in the majority of its markets, and appears to be on course to suffer a slow painful death without a major restructuring. With 162 game seasons, and over 150 years of existence, the league could wallow in its own filth for another 25 years before its death becomes imminent, but I believe it's coming.

    For the NBA, ignoring the needs of the majority of its markets to be compe ive creates a very real long-term risk of alienating entire portions of the country and creating a similar result to what happened with MLB. I've lived in Phoenix for several years, and in that time I have attended three times as many NBA games in other cities than I do there, and really, I only attend a home game if the opponent is worth buying a ticket for...not to watch the home team. While Phoenix's issues are due more to poor ownership and management than anything else, this same lethargic fanbase result will play itself out in 20+ or so other NBA arenas if all fans in these outer markets get every year is an average to poor product to be asked to support. Casual fans (non-NBA diehards like myself) will turn away from the sport in droves and the league will ultimately suffer. Fans are smarter than they were during the large market dominant era of the 1970s and '80s. Fans now have more entertainment choices and often a budget that doesn't include hundreds to thousands of dollars to attend basketball games to watch losing clubs. Even teams like the Spurs, as hard as they work to stay attractive, will ultimately lose their luster if they continually get punched in the mouth losing out on even mid-tier free agents without any recourse or opportunity to capitalize on their winning formula.

    So Adam Silver, if you have a brain, and a soul, and a back bone, ignore guys like Charles Curtis, and run this league like a man with integrity...not a spineless little yes man.
    One critical issue with your argument is, a larger percentage of NBA shared revenue (shared by all teams) comes from TV/media/advertising contracts. Ticket sales is second to all that. It's common knowledge that several NBA teams are, in effect, subsidized by the larger markets. What entices the networks/brands to spend so much on these contracts? Marketable stars and fake rivalries amongst large cities/population centers (which generate the all important Buzz, entice casuals to watch, and make advertising more valuable). It's more important now than ever, since these large markets and marketable stars are recognizable worldwide. And multiple stars come from different countries, who have large followings in those countries.

    Minnesota or Milwaukee or whatever ain't got on that. Angry Joe Redneck's $25-with-a-Free-Beer tickets do nothing but fill seats, and allow the stadium to sell concessions these days. The money made by the stadium comes from season ticket sales and corp luxury box seats, which make much more money per square foot.
    Last edited by phxspurfan; 07-26-2019 at 01:17 AM.

  18. #18
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    83
    They need to raise the league minimums quite a bit. That would prevent these superteams.

  19. #19
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    4,666
    One of the better rants I've read in awhile, Ed Helicopter Jones

    This offseason took collusion to a new level. We've never seen big signings become all but official days before the free agency period was supposed to even start. I mean, for example, Kemba was somehow a lock for the Celtics long before they were legally allowed to talk to him. How does something like that happen without Silver even pretending to do anything about it?

    And you're right, big picture-wise, the current policy helps at most a quarter of the teams. The rest of the league is fighting an embarrassingly unfair fight. And it's trending the wrong way.

    Does Silver care? Doesn't look like it.

    Hopefully the Holt kids will stand up and fight for small market teams like their dad did, tbh.
    Apparently 1.39 billion worth of contracts were agreed upon before free agency began.

  20. #20
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Post Count
    24,488
    Enforce stricter tampering rules but as a conccesion

    Rooke contract should be limited to 3 years and no RFA.

    I support the idea of giving younger dudes the choice of where they want to play. Its their life.

  21. #21
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    40,489
    One thing that needs to be done is to make an extension EXACTLY the same as a new contract. Players are essentially being forced into FA to get the most cash, because extending their contract leaves them well short. When they turn down the extension, the team can be unsure how to read that. Do they just want the money? Or, are they plotting an exit strategy? Equalizing the extensions and new contracts removes that uncertainty for teams. If a player turns down his extension, YOU need to be planning HIS exit strategy.

  22. #22
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    2,319
    I'd probably play with contract lengths. No more 1+1 unless its a min type deal. At least 3 years if above MLE. Get rid of supermax, go back to longer contract terms. Or maybe say that each team is allowed 1 supermax slot at anyone time. Extend rookie deal by making QO a 2 year instead of 1 year contract.

    Just some thoughts

  23. #23
    TRU 'cross mah stomach LaMarcus Bryant's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Post Count
    5,724
    Restructure the damn CBA if you have to, and put hard rules in place. Then, get a commissioner that cares more for the league and all of its member cities than he cares about a limited number of markets, and the glee of building social media buzz in the off season.
    The next CBA is going to be a blood bath. No way billionaire whities let these guys continue to call the shots. No ing way.

    Also, has the NBA ever had a commissioner that did not fit your description? They all jerk it to LA and NY

    Overall I couldn't agree more with you.

  24. #24
    Believe. 3&D_TBH's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Post Count
    255
    We’ve seen small market owners fight back against this before in prior CBAs. They know it’s a rigged game as it stands. Sadly, nothing substantial to address this can be done until another CBA negotiation takes place. But small market owners will be out for blood when that negation comes. As they should. And money talks. The league needs these teams to be relevant. Take solace in the irony that even though the free agency blatantly works in favor of large market teams, they still can’t win a ing thing.

    I would still rather be a Spurs fan. I’m a High School Teacher. I like the teaching and team-building culture of the Spurs. They have an intelligent approach to their organization as a whole. If players show up and want to learn how to improve their skills, we have systems in place with good teachers to help them grow. Lakers and Knicks don’t have that. They can land a star here or there, but the foundation upon which they’ve branded themselves is hallow and fragile. They are boom and bust. On a long enough timeline, we will be more consistently good. If you already know that you are at a systemic disadvantage when it comes to free agency, then your best bet to be successful is exactly the approach we are taking. And when the CBA arrives, fight.

  25. #25
    Enemy of the FCC and AMA Dr. John R. Brinkley's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Post Count
    551
    Great post.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •