Why do most American police officers support/vote Republican?

[DMC]

You mean after 2010?

Both you and Darrin are too lazy to answer.

What does "fairly recent" mean to you?

[ElNono]

I accept the Wiki description of Liberal.

Blacks are notoriously religious. Many in the democratic party are religious, and family oriented, and marriage oriented. This is why I don't consider these people to be liberals.

Not sure what that description is, there's plenty on wiki, but sure there's plenty of married, family oriented liberals (not just democrats). It's just that their religious views don't influence their politics.

They support abortion, pot smoking, same-sex marriage, etc. You wouldn't confuse those guys for conservatives for one minute.

How many non-gay black men do you know who support feminism? How about supporting the rights of LGBQTs?

People call blacks "liberal" for the sake of argument, to count their numbers, but culturally and socially they are mostly not liberal.

I don't think there's expectations that every liberal will subscribe to the ideology of everybody liberal out there. Some people will, some people won't. Some black people will equate the discrimination on gays to the racial discrimination they suffer, some won't.

It happens all the same with conservatives. How many conservatives support ultra-nationalists or racists? Some do, most don't, I think. Those that do not are not any less conservative.

Happens with religion too. Not every Christian believes and abides by every single teaching in the Bible. But that doesn't make them non-christian.

I would call them democrats, not conservatives, not independents. Would Bernie voters who refused to vote for Hillary be considered other than Democrats?

Well as per the LA Times article I referenced.

"The most liberal flank of the Democratic Party is far whiter than it used to be, and decidedly to the left of many of the party’s blacks and other racial minorities on a wide range of issues. Zach Goldberg (no relation), a PhD candidate at the University of Georgia, wrote a comprehensive survey of the phenomenon for Tablet magazine in June in a piece led “America’s White Saviors.” He notes that black and Asian liberals are more sympathetic to restrictive immigration policies than their white counterparts. And both black and Latino liberals tend to be more supportive of Israel and less supportive of the iden y politics agenda around sexuality and gender."

That's the 'degree of lefty', which has always existed in one way or another, and yet you wouldn't confuse them with conservatives. That quoted text doesn't make the distinction either.

Same thing happened with conservatives on how conservative they really are (I'm sure you remember the whole litmus test pre-Trump, pledges, RINO, etc).

When you get to the nitty gritty, and ask the typical wedge questions, you do get a typical answer. I think that largely applies to blacks and whites, depending where they are (generalizing here, but you get the point).


If your beef is with the more far left section of the democratic party, then that's ok.

[ElNono]

Only female constables in Dallas amirite? eh? Eh????

lol

The nature of your environment is how you gauge reality. It's why people who are raised differently see things differently quite often.

I was sitting at a regional airport yesterday, waiting on a flight to Chicago. The flight was delayed almost 3 hours, but about 5 minutes after the door would have been closed otherwise, this young college girl runs in and is having a hissy fit, she just jumps ahead of about 5 other people in line to the counter, and she's frantically going on about being late. She's wearing just thin shorts and sandals. Once she finds out the flight is delayed, she starts talking about having lost her phone, then how she's hanging, then asks to borrow someone's phone and calls a friend. She talks so loud everyone can hear her, and she's going on and on about being blacked out, not sure who she slept with, worst day of her life, how her Birkenstocks are now muddy, etc... talks about vodka and tequila and so on. Meanwhile all the women sitting around me are talking to each other about this girl, and everyone there, I think, except this obviously privileged little seems to think this girl is not connected with the same reality as the rest of us. It's like a Housewives show (so I've heard). The concept of being raised differently (older working women vs young, probably freshman college kid) means they see reality differently. So to them they are living in a different reality.

I didn't mean to suggest reality itself changes.

That makes more sense. Some people actually do think there's a parallel reality, which is part of a grander delusion, and I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing (You know, the flat earthers, conspira s, etc)

I'm not discounting that your experiences in life doesn't shape your worldview (which IMO, it's a much more clear definition that some notion of altered reality). I actually pretty much agree with that. This is anecdotal, so carries no weight, but I was born in a middle-class 3rd world country family, and I could live in a gated community in the 1st world now (I don't). But that doesn't insulate me from the struggle of people trying to walk up that ladder, the empathy of those that don't have the tools or have enough despite how hard they work, how flat out ignoramus have to lie of what's it like to travel that road to demonize. Some other people don't give a where they came from, or the struggles of anybody else. I find that shallow, but that's fine.

What I'm pointing out is that because I grew up in an insecure area, doesn't mean I'm automatically conservative. Poor people are actually much more largely drawn toward liberalism due to their catering to unions, etc. Again, it's purely a convenience/utilitarian issue.

If conservatives advocated for food stamps instead of tax cuts, I'm sure the poor would listen more closely. Same goes with immigration, etc. And I don't think conservatives largely hate the poor or immigrants (hard to tell these days, but let's generalize a bit), they just don't cater to them.

I am sure they don't stop and protest at a coffee shop because someone used the wrong pronoun.

It's not about living conditions. It's about how you view your role in the world you live in. Are you aggressive and do you respect authority? Do you think authority is necessary? Or are you passive and think authority suppresses freedoms? Both have some things right, but one side often overdoes the authority and the other ignores the fallacies of anarchy.

I think there's a bit of everything. There's aggressive that don't respect authority (criminals anyone?), there's passive that trusts authority (the vast majority of people, regardless of political leaning), there's people that prefer to be aggressive in some settings (ie: compe ive people) but are model citizens. There's people that hate undemocratic hierarchical authority (you can pen me on that one), but then obviously opt not to join the military, for example. Ultimately, nobody is forcing LEO to be LEO. It's a choice, which I'm sure varies depending on the person.

I don't know where you're going with the union thing.

I'm going to the utilitarian aspect. Going by conservative media, government unions are the bane of our existence, but ideology doesn't get in the way there for LEO.

[DMC]

Not sure what that description is, there's plenty on wiki, but sure there's plenty of married, family oriented liberals (not just democrats). It's just that their religious views don't influence their politics.

They support abortion, pot smoking, same-sex marriage, etc. You wouldn't confuse those guys for conservatives for one minute.

I support all three of those things. I consider myself conservative.

I was using the things you mentioned as defining traits for liberals... religion, family, marriage.

I don't think there's expectations that every liberal will subscribe to the ideology of everybody liberal out there. Some people will, some people won't. Some black people will equate the discrimination on gays to the racial discrimination they suffer, some won't.

I don't think there's that expectation at all. It's not that simple or easy to dismiss. If you don't think that way, give others credit for not being stupid.

You're not liberal if you don't hold liberal values. If a black person (or any person) doesn't respect liberal values, how can you say they are liberal? You say they feel one way and vote another, ok, would you say that blacks can vote dem and yet not hold liberal values ergo not be liberals? Doesn't the utilitarian aspect come into play here as well? I could vote republican and not have conservative values.

It happens all the same with conservatives. How many conservatives support ultra-nationalists or racists? Some do, most don't, I think. Those that do not are not any less conservative.

That's a loaded question that infers racists are somehow exclusive to the right. It's obvious not all people from either side think exactly the same, but if you're going to call someone liberal who doesn't hold liberal views, then aren't you just broadening the term to annex the more conservative dems for sake of argument?

Happens with religion too. Not every Christian believes and abides by every single teaching in the Bible. But that doesn't make them non-christian.

If they don't believe or practice the fundamental tenets of Christianity, they aren't Christians. If someone doesn't believe or practice the fundamental tenets of liberalism, they aren't liberals. Voting dem doesn't make them liberal just as being baptized doesn't make anyone a Christian. Not everyone in the church is a Christian but they can still all be part of the congregation. Liberals are part of the democratic spectrum that are more left of center than those who teeter more to the right. For some it's a bit nebulous, these are the undecided ones who don't necessarily vote along party lines (like me).

That's the 'degree of lefty', which has always existed in one way or another, and yet you wouldn't confuse them with conservatives. That quoted text doesn't make the distinction either.

I haven't tried to make a dem into a republican, but just because you vote republican doesn't make you a conservative.

Same thing happened with conservatives on how conservative they really are (I'm sure you remember the whole litmus test pre-Trump, pledges, RINO, etc).

No I don't really recall that. I've been told I am not a conservative, because of my stance on same sex marriage, on being atheist, on my stance on abortion. It doesn't matter, because I will vote for the candidate I prefer or I will simply not vote.

When you get to the nitty gritty, and ask the typical wedge questions, you do get a typical answer. I think that largely applies to blacks and whites, depending where they are (generalizing here, but you get the point).


If your beef is with the more far left section of the democratic party, then that's ok.

It is, that's why I said long ago, before he even announced, that Joe Biden would be able to beat Trump and that I would likely vote for him. I won't vote for Sanders or that crazy from California.

[FrostKing]

Whoa this thread blew up

Don't blame Christisniy. The left hates Republican politicians and Zionist s trying to shove down their religious beliefs down our throats. Otherwise people are free to believe what they want but none of this forced patriotism and Christianity BS.

Your understanding doesn't quite add up. Because the Left defends non-White religious followers especially foreigners

Republican ass kissing of zionist results in handicapped soldiers returning to America and the outbreak of refugees whom rarely end up in America anyway (this is more a concern of Europes) but Democrats ass kissing of zionist rotts the very culture and society of America

[ElNono]

I support all three of those things. I consider myself conservative.

The vast majority of conservatives do not. Maybe you're a centrist and leans conservative in some areas, but it's unequivocal that those positions are (socially) liberal positions in the current political map.

I was using the things you mentioned as defining traits for liberals... religion, family, marriage.

I mentioned those items in the context of people living in a ghetto. I don't think the vast majority there statistically subscribe to any of those three. It was an example given a context.

Truth be told, looking at divorce rates, conservatives only largely pay lip service to family and marriage (specifically on the latter as long as it only involves a women and a man, mostly due to religious reasons).

I don't think there's that expectation at all. It's not that simple or easy to dismiss. If you don't think that way, give others credit for not being stupid.

You're not liberal if you don't hold liberal values. If a black person (or any person) doesn't respect liberal values, how can you say they are liberal? You say they feel one way and vote another, ok, would you say that blacks can vote dem and yet not hold liberal values ergo not be liberals? Doesn't the utilitarian aspect come into play here as well? I could vote republican and not have conservative values.

But then you need to define what those liberal values are. Because if you're telling me that abortion, pot smoking, same-sex marriage are not liberal positions then it's you that has a disconnect.

If you're gonna pick and choose that only LBGTQ right and feminism are liberal positions, but not the other 3 above, then that's convenient, but simply not serious.

That's a loaded question that infers racists are somehow exclusive to the right. It's obvious not all people from either side think exactly the same, but if you're going to call someone liberal who doesn't hold liberal views, then aren't you just broadening the term to annex the more conservative dems for sake of argument?

I should've said white supremacists (which are statistically much closer to the conservative side), so let's make that more clear.

And no, I'm not broadening anything, because I didn't make any claims about who's liberal and who is not. What I noted, which is what started this conversation, is that people in the ghetto strike me to be more liberal than conservative. I didn't associate it with how they vote necessarily, but the fact that there's rampant single-motherhood, statistically adult black women marry at a rate 30% lower than adult white women, crime rate in those areas don't strike me as being part of the Christian core values (and 8 out of 10 black folk self-describe as Christian, higher than white people), etc. So it's difficult to think in that particular setting that, outside loving the 2nd amendment (pun intended, sorry Trill), there's a lot of conservative ideology going on... I didn't call them outright liberals also. But if you ask me to generalize and classify them, they strike me as much more liberal than conservative.

If they don't believe or practice the fundamental tenets of Christianity, they aren't Christians. If someone doesn't believe or practice the fundamental tenets of liberalism, they aren't liberals. Voting dem doesn't make them liberal just as being baptized doesn't make anyone a Christian. Not everyone in the church is a Christian but they can still all be part of the congregation. Liberals are part of the democratic spectrum that are more left of center than those who teeter more to the right. For some it's a bit nebulous, these are the undecided ones who don't necessarily vote along party lines (like me).

But this is not true, because some people believe or practice 80% of the tenets of Christianity, but there's a 20% they don't agree with (ie: same sex marriage, divorce, or even abortion), and yet they attend church and self describe as Christian. Heck, a divorce doesn't prevent them from going to church or practice Christianity, nor expels them from the Church. Statistically, we still count them as Christian. We can argue whether they're 'pure' or not, does it really matter? They're definitely not agnostic or Islamic or Buddhists, I don't think anybody would be confused as to whether they're Christian or not.

I haven't tried to make a dem into a republican, but just because you vote republican doesn't make you a conservative.

I didn't advance that theory either. I merely commented that what you shared with us also doesn't distinguish between liberal and non-liberal just because some people are more towards the left than others.

No I don't really recall that. I've been told I am not a conservative, because of my stance on same sex marriage, on being atheist, on my stance on abortion. It doesn't matter, because I will vote for the candidate I prefer or I will simply not vote.

It was during the Mitt Romney presidential candidate era. That he had to pledge not to raise taxes. That he lost because he wasn't conservative enough, etc.

I've been labeled different ways too, but I think we can agree that has as much to do with the topic as the listener.

It is, that's why I said long ago, before he even announced, that Joe Biden would be able to beat Trump and that I would likely vote for him. I won't vote for Sanders or that crazy from California.

You're likely not alone in that. That's the sort of sandwich I was talking about in the last election too, tbh... I couldn't consciously cast a vote for either, so I didn't. I don't buy the lesser of two evils argument, give me good candidates or forget about my vote (that said, I've lived in states where my vote largely doesn't matter).

[Trill Clinton]

Interesting to see old racist white guys pretend they know the mindset of African Americans and people living in the "ghetto"

[spurraider21]

Whoa this thread blew up


Your understanding doesn't quite add up. Because the Left defends non-White religious followers especially foreigners

Republican ass kissing of zionist results in handicapped soldiers returning to America and the outbreak of refugees whom rarely end up in America anyway (this is more a concern of Europes) but Democrats ass kissing of zionist rotts the very culture and society of America

The left defends those non Christian religion followers in the context of fighting discrimination, not in defense of the religion itself. And the “fight” against Christianity is better framed as a fight to keep the religion out of politics (ie gay marriage) per the first amendment. Is Muslims tried to pass laws here that restricted rights to people based on their religion, they’d be attacked just the same

[spurraider21]

And no, I'm not broadening anything, because I didn't I couldn't consciously cast a vote for either, so I didn't. I don't buy the lesser of two evils argument, give me good candidates or forget about my vote (that said, I've lived in states where my vote largely doesn't matter).

I find this entire section disturbing tbh

are you even allowed to vote?

[Blake]

You said cops need the 2A to have their guns while off duty.

Now try to squirm out of it you slimy bas

red herring

Cops don't need the 2A to carry a gun, even off duty, you low information .

Great they don't need the 2a. Go make yourself a victory trophy if you need it since I wasn't aware of the recently made act.

But the thread is asking why cops stereotypically vote Republican. Was the act pushed by Republicans?

DMC wrong about the red herring and me squirming but will never admit it.

DMC will not answer.

DMC will dance instead.

[Blake]

What does "fairly recent" mean to you?

I asked first.

Because it's actually Darrin's claim you're piggy backing on and not mine, I'll wait.

[DMC]

The vast majority of conservatives do not. Maybe you're a centrist and leans conservative in some areas, but it's unequivocal that those positions are (socially) liberal positions in the current political map.

Probably a bit of an enigma (what's up my e-nigma?)

I mentioned those items in the context of people living in a ghetto. I don't think the vast majority there statistically subscribe to any of those three. It was an example given a context.

Then they aren't liberal. Maybe they are more centrist in ideology but vote based on what many of the community leaders recommend? One thing about whites, afaik we don't have tight communities and don't really adhere to the community leader template. I find I agree more with the blacks than with most of the whites, many seem more pragmatic, perhaps because of the differences in "reality" I mentioned earlier. Perhaps it has to do with the economic situation we were raised in, for the most part.

Truth be told, looking at divorce rates, conservatives only largely pay lip service to family and marriage (specifically on the latter as long as it only involves a women and a man, mostly due to religious reasons).

The conservatives I know only care about marriage because they judge each other, parents judge offspring and offspring wants approval of parents in the form of inheritance. Old joke.. how do you stop a Christian from drinking all your beer when you take them fishing? You have to take two Christians. They won't touch the beer then.

But then you need to define what those liberal values are. Because if you're telling me that abortion, pot smoking, same-sex marriage are not liberal positions then it's you that has a disconnect.

Pot smoking seems to be loved across the spectrum for the younger generation and even some of the older ones. These are liberal positions, but they don't make the one holding them a liberal. Why can't someone believe in personal freedoms but be fiscally conservative? I can be against a welfare state and yet be for freedom of movement, freedom to marry whomever you want, a secularist, etc... Someone with my outlook would never win the presidency unless they lied, because the majority of the bases do indeed lean one way or the other.

If you're gonna pick and choose that only LBGTQ right and feminism are liberal positions, but not the other 3 above, then that's convenient, but simply not serious.

No, they all are but if you remove a couple of them, are you still liberal? Some are exclusively liberal, others are shared. I think the concept of "rights" for LBGFTQ is different than the concept of exclusive rights for them. I think many conservatives feel these groups take advantage of the human rights issue to push their own agendas and get special rights. The idea of a man using a woman's restroom because he has on a dress is an example. Demanding that others use specific gender pronouns when it goes against the natural order of how they are historically used is another. Equal rights doesn't mean I have to pretend to believe what you believe. Certainly liberals, especially the younger ones, get that when they refuse to say "sir" or "ma'am" even if the one they are talking to prefers it.

I should've said white supremacists (which are statistically much closer to the conservative side), so let's make that more clear.

These people are such a small, insignificant segment of the population that they don't even really merit discussion. It would be like me bringing up the Black Panthers or the Nation of Islam as being part of the left.

And no, I'm not broadening anything, because I didn't make any claims about who's liberal and who is not. What I noted, which is what started this conversation, is that people in the ghetto strike me to be more liberal than conservative. I didn't associate it with how they vote necessarily, but the fact that there's rampant single-motherhood, statistically adult black women marry at a rate 30% lower than adult white women, crime rate in those areas don't strike me as being part of the Christian core values (and 8 out of 10 black folk self-describe as Christian, higher than white people), etc. So it's difficult to think in that particular setting that, outside loving the 2nd amendment (pun intended, sorry Trill), there's a lot of conservative ideology going on... I didn't call them outright liberals also. But if you ask me to generalize and classify them, they strike me as much more liberal than conservative.

Their culture isn't based on political views. Moms don't often choose to be single. The men don't say "well, I don't believe in family or marriage so I am not going to support it by getting married". Blacks don't want to give their money to the poor any more than conservative whites do. They don't believe in socialism, but will take advantage of the system, just like whites will. This is the problem with trying to pigeonhole cultural groups into political parties - their actions are often based on culture, not political views. You can bet many blacks won't respect your gender pronoun of choice. So we're talking about completely different groups of people, the white liberals and the black democrats. There are likely some mixes of color on each, but the recent rise of the white liberal is the issue, it's not the historically democratic political lean of the blacks. The difference is that the former is looking to feel good about themselves, the latter is looking to survive. The former doesn't really like the latter, thus the gated communities and exclusive living arrangements. They might date across races to try to prove a point, but they won't live there.

But this is not true, because some people believe or practice 80% of the tenets of Christianity, but there's a 20% they don't agree with (ie: same sex marriage, divorce, or even abortion), and yet they attend church and self describe as Christian. Heck, a divorce doesn't prevent them from going to church or practice Christianity, nor expels them from the Church. Statistically, we still count them as Christian. We can argue whether they're 'pure' or not, does it really matter? They're definitely not agnostic or Islamic or Buddhists, I don't think anybody would be confused as to whether they're Christian or not.

The tenets of Christianity I refer to are that Jesus is the son of God and that Jesus died for your sins, and all you have to do is accept that to be a Christian.

Its main points include:

• Belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit.
• The death, descent into , resurrection and ascension of Christ.
• The holiness of the Church and the communion of saints.
• Christ's second coming, the Day of Judgement and salvation of the faithful.

If you don't believe these things you aren't Christian. Likewise if you don't believe the tenets of Liberalism then you aren't Liberal.

I didn't advance that theory either. I merely commented that what you shared with us also doesn't distinguish between liberal and non-liberal just because some people are more towards the left than others.

What distinguishes is whether or not you believe in the tenets of liberalism, regardless how you vote.

It was during the Mitt Romney presidential candidate era. That he had to pledge not to raise taxes. That he lost because he wasn't conservative enough, etc.

Being Mormon didn't help. Christians look unkindly upon the LDS.

I've been labeled different ways too, but I think we can agree that has as much to do with the topic as the listener.



You're likely not alone in that. That's the sort of sandwich I was talking about in the last election too, tbh... I couldn't consciously cast a vote for either, so I didn't. I don't buy the lesser of two evils argument, give me good candidates or forget about my vote (that said, I've lived in states where my vote largely doesn't matter).

My individual vote is insignificant, but the concept that my vote doesn't matter is huge.

This excerpt from an article I read sums it up pretty well:

"In national elections, economists and some political scientists who consider such issues say, your one vote makes effectively zero difference, so it’s irrational to vote for the purpose of shaping the election’s outcome. It to speak of a “wasted vote,” because your vote wouldn’t have mattered anyway. This doesn’t necessarily mean you shouldn’t vote at all, since there are powerful moral reasons to vote. But it does mean that if your goal is to influence the outcome of the election, then voting third party, voting major party, and not voting are equally rational in economic (in the sense of strictly self-interested) terms."

http://www.ahienquiry.org/writing-co...opular-fallacy

[DMC]

Interesting to see old racist white guys pretend they know the mindset of African Americans and people living in the "ghetto"

I knew more about Joshua Brown than you did. Entrepreneur my ass.

[DMC]

The left defends those non Christian religion followers in the context of fighting discrimination, not in defense of the religion itself. And the “fight” against Christianity is better framed as a fight to keep the religion out of politics (ie gay marriage) per the first amendment. Is Muslims tried to pass laws here that restricted rights to people based on their religion, they’d be attacked just the same

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?

[Blake]

I knew more about Joshua Brown than you did. Entrepreneur my ass.

DMC is so ghetto

[Blake]

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?

Oh you mean Christianity

[DMC]

DMC wrong about the red herring and me squirming but will never admit it.

DMC will not answer.

DMC will dance instead.

"recently made act".

Signed in 2004, 15 years ago

Damn Blake, did your time clock stop after the cucking? You post articles from 2010 to counter a comment about "recent" then you call 2004 recent.

But you did say you weren't aware. This I already knew. You're a child.

[Blake]

"recently made act".

Signed in 2004, 15 years ago

Damn Blake, did your time clock stop after the cucking? You post articles from 2010 to counter a comment about "recent" then you call 2004 recent.

Must. Cling. To. This.

[DMC]

Blake wants to interject pithy remarks but lacks the IQ to be effective, so he gets slapped down on the regular then wants to quickly move on. Just sit in your corner there and beat off, like you normally do.

[DMC]

DMC is so ghetto

Blake is so edgy

[TheGreatYacht]

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?

The teachings of the bible and Christianity encourages those things too tbh. Suppressing women and stoning sexuals has been done by Christians in the past.

Seems to me been like you're obsessed w labels and iden y politics. I personally don't give a about what people label me.

And I don't believe you would vote for Biden . I bet you anything that you have voted Republican your whole life. That's why I say these centrist Democrats like Biden and Hillary should just join the Republican party and let the progressives take over the Democrats.

[spurraider21]

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?

if they abide by our laws, that cuts out a lot of the detestable crap their religion brings, including the subjugation of women/gays.

ie, muslim man doesnt believe gays should get married. thats his deal. as long as he keeps it to himself, who gives a . gay people around him are still getting married. you can say the same about any religion tbh

[Trill Clinton]

I knew more about Joshua Brown than you did. Entrepreneur my ass.

old racist white guy proud his racist guess may have been true.

[DMC]

old racist white guy proud his racist guess may have been true.

You need a mulligan on this one?

[DMC]

if they abide by our laws, that cuts out a lot of the detestable crap their religion brings, including the subjugation of women/gays.

In public.

ie, muslim man doesnt believe gays should get married. thats his deal. as long as he keeps it to himself, who gives a . gay people around him are still getting married. you can say the same about any religion tbh

You're talking about a group who denies Jews the freedom of speech on campuses because they don't like the message. Pretty sure the Muslim support is just to with the right.