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  1. #176
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Dems are majority white as well.



    In 2012 About 73% of officers in the US were white. That's a lower percentage than the white republicans.
    Not saying dems are majority women/blacks etc, dems represent minority. Big difference.
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  2. #177
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    Not saying dems are majority women/blacks etc, dems represent minority. Big difference.
    You said cops are majority white as if that's why they vote republican, but Dems are majority white as well. They don't vote republican.

  3. #178
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Are Dems still majority white? I honestly don’t know but figure it’s got to be pretty close at this point.
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  4. #179
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    Are Dems still majority white? I honestly donít know but figure itís got to be pretty close at this point.
    About 77% of the country is white. 40% of white voters voted democrat in 2016. There were 138 million votes.



    Since the ratio didn't really change, I'd say whites still make up at least 60% of the democratic vote.

  5. #180
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    The left isn't known for caring that much about the BoR. Not just the 2A but even the 1A gets applied in self-serving ways. So I don't accept the BoR as being the reason the far left supports Muslims.
    It really doesn't matter what either side care about with regards to constitutional rights considering neither side has enough clout to change the Constitution, nor are in charge of enforcing those rights.

    Plus, it's irrelevant to the discussion as to whether hate speech (in the form of religion or otherwise) should be curbed.

  6. #181
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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  7. #182
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    What are the base tenets of Liberalism? I said I would accept the Wiki description. So list the ones you think are fundamental to being liberal.
    Can you link the Wiki description you subscribe to? I found ~5 Wiki entries for Liberalism. Obviously, what we knew as the 19th century 'classical' liberals are no longer what the 'modern' liberals of today look like. That's why I don't want to assume what your position is.

    I would say off the top of my head, modern liberal fundamental tenets encompasses: secular democracy, defense of workers' rights above corporatism (with the state having a prominent role on regulation, etc), a voice/platform for minorities (lots of stuff fit under this core tenet), strong personal social rights and freedoms (civil rights fall into this, among other things).

    I don't know I'll go much further than that as far as 'core' tenets, and it's also very debatable if some of those topics have become more of lip service than concrete items. But I think that's a fairly safe description, or one I can likely defend.

    There's a difference in calling someone "liberal" based on their liberal views and "liberal" based on what party they'd fall into. Same with conservative. In fact, the god view I have would be a Christian one, but I don't believe a god exists. Since I was raised in a Christian household, and attended church regularly as a child, I still have the Christian version of God as the image I argue against when I debate against theism. That doesn't make me a Christian.

    From Wiki: Liberalism aims to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. They can further be divided based on their adherence to social liberalism or classical liberalism, although all liberal parties and individuals share basic similarities, including the support for civil rights and democratic institutions.

    These groups on the left aren't looking to disperse power, they are looking to attain some for themselves. They aren't looking to foster diversity. They are looking to have their own differences accepted. The creativity part seems a bit nebulous.

    For one, Americans aren't all on the same level of playing field, so different groups will have different goals. Some groups are more concerned with the welfare of their group than with the welfare of people in general. This can be seen in groups like we've discussed, who feel they have been disenfranchised. Instead of reaching out to say "no one should be disenfranchised" they say "we shouldn't be disenfranchised". How different is that than the conservatives saying "we shouldn't have to pay higher taxes" instead of saying "no one should have to pay higher taxes"?
    It's debatable. I do think that parties do reinvent themselves as they go along, sometimes overlooking (if not outright forgetting) some of their basic tenets, and sometimes even get co-opted based on the necessities of the time. ie: both Trump (the absolute social liberal, no question about it) AND Hillary (globalization corporatist) are great recent examples.

    I think what they mean by power dispersion is the constant battle between corporatism influence in power (all too common today in the form of lobbying) vs protecting the little guy. Again, when I say some of these topics have fallen by the wayside and can be lip service sometimes, I was specifically thinking about this one. However, we do see some forms of populism extolling this virtue in people like Bernie, and to a lesser degree, Warren. Even Trump ran on this, which is fairly opposite of the free market mantra, but it does resonate today with the electorate generally due to the many shapes globalization has taken hold.

    And, honestly, about diversity, I think having their differences accepted is a big part of fostering diversity. I mean, if we can't even agree that a married gay couple should have the same legal rights as those of a straight couple, we really can't proceed with any kind of fostering.

    My 2c anyways.

  8. #183
    Believe.
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    This is the case in most nations in History. Conservatives tend to highly prioritize order. And order is usually upheld by law (and/or religion)


    True.

    There is nothing wrong with order. It is better than anarchy. Like what a lot of leftists in some urban cities like.

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