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Pop seems to be going through the motions. Maybe it is time for him to move on too, but if he does he most likely will drink himself to death.
Let's wait for the season to start before assuming anything. We don't know, I don't anyway what happens in practice. Playoffs should be hard fought again and every game will matter.
Why show all your cards in preseason that is made for experimentation? If you can grab a few games out of suprise... Don't also forget Murray is coming back from a severe injury.
Now I could be wrong ofc but I wouldn't be surprised if Spurs start the season with a Murray-white Back court.
Pop seems to be going through the motions. Maybe it is time for him to move on too, but if he does he most likely will drink himself to death.
This is what I am assuming...
You start Murray...White...and Derozan...who is left to run your second unit?
Patty? no
Marco? no
Forbes ? Interesting...his main problem was that he used to get overwhelmed by bigger guards if you put the ball in his hands to much...but he has gotten a lot stronger since then...but he is easily the best catch and shoot guy you have so putting the ball in his hands is a waste of his primary talent...
Lonnie ? Again interesting...but right now Pop doesn't trust him enough...and honestly Mills and Marco are going to have to the bed quite a bit for Lonnie to get any real ballhandling duties...
So I expect White to come off the bench for no other reason that Pop trust the other guards to run the offense...
I also always expected Dejounte to start because right now all his value is wrapped up in guarding the other guys best perimeter players...who tend to be on the floor when the game starts...
We all need to prepare ourselves for the next patty mills contract?
If the spurs actually traded mills I would legit expect an announcement by Pop a day or two later saying he is retiring...
The problem is, unless someone else shows up with a 3P shot, you can't keep Forbes out of the SL, and you know the starters are going to get the lion's share of the minutes. Murray and White can't "destroy" other teams if they're playing against their benches. There's no way DDR is going to play a Ginobili role off the bench.
I was hopeful that DJ and White would both come back with a dependable 3P shot. Or at least one of them would. If that doesn't happen, there's just not a of a lot of flexibility in this team's SL. Forbes, DDR, and Aldridge all three have to be there.So what is Pop gonna do? DJ/Forbes/White/DDR/LMA?
If anybody (Murray, White, or DDR) had developed a dependable 3P shot, I think they would have come out chunking them in the preseason. Murray has made a few, but it hasn't exactly been a featured part of his game. So that means Pop is going to have to count on Carrol/Gay/Belli for some spacing.
So do the math. Murray/White probably isn't in the cards. Pop might have a look in the preseason, jut for laughs. But it can't feature in the regular season unless at least one of those other three starts throwing up and hitting 3's.
That CIA stuff wears pretty thin. What this group is desperately short on is 3P shooting. You don't hide that if you've got it. You want opposing defenses to have to honor the deep ball. That's what spacing is all about.
This is an excellent point, TimVp. Any chance you could just drop a copy of this article on Pop's desk? Maybe on the assistant's desks, as well, in the hopes that one of them might show him the light.
Pop watched too much Patty during FIBA, and is convinced that he's actually a good NBA player.
i was hoping the article would address the one obvious concern about having both white and murray out on the floor at the same time, and that would be the concern that until one of them can develop a consistent outside three-point shot, spacing will be a problem.
The fact that there is absolutely no overlap between their minutes is concerning. I hope it’s just Pop trying to teach these guys self reliance at the point. I really want to see the “Shutdown Brothers” in action dang it!
One thing I find interesting is that a lot of the pundits are lauding the Spurs for their versatile roster, particularly the bench, yet assuming this is how Pop feels, he doesn’t trust many with handling the ball there
I also replied to timvp about the fact that maybe he’s teaching both points to not rely on one another? I dunno, speculation but unlike so many here, I still try to trust Pop, even when it’s difficult.
I can understand them not starting together and then having Derrick run the show for the second unit, but for them not to play a single SECOND together in 3 games is just ridiculous. Also what’s probably bothering me more is Marco playing more than Lonnie. It’s sickening it really is, this is the only team in the NBA that would play Marco over Lonnie.
He can't trade Patty. Everybody on the team loves Mills and it would hit the team morale a lot if you trade him. From Rudy, LA, DeMar, Bryn, etc. everybody loves Patty cause he's a great team mate. And he's the leader in the locker room. Trading him during midseason would just not work out well. The thing is, Forbes is basically a better and cheaper version of Patty, so he should be the odd man out from a basketball standpoint, but you know that's not the #1 priority of this organization
I just posted about this in another thread. Sucks seeing Spoelstra let Tyler Herro shine and other rookies and second year guys getting way more opportunities than Walker (even on better teams than us).
How did I forget thatThey stopped being ashamed the minute they published that "Patty is the new Big 3 member..." article some years ago.
LMA, Kawhi and 50
Does White have the mentality of a shooter enough to play SG opposite Murray? His shooting and Murray's have both improved, but we know Murray is probably permanent as PG. Perhaps a pairing of Murray and (eventually) Walker is the right combo. Walker looks like he has the right mentality for a SG, but needs work on his outside shot.
Then you put in White and Forbes off the bench. Both playing their natural positions.
White and Murray play together when you absolutely need to get a stop on defense or to protect a lead. They are proven and I have a hunch Walker could be on the floor with them in that situation. Pretty damn tough defense on the perimeter to close out a game
Whether it comes this year or next, that looks like the right guard rotation for the future.
The future's so bright I gotta wear shades.
CIA Pop
Pop often takes the long view, and it is hard to exactly say what his motivation is. It could be that he is waiting for White to play better to get in the starting lineup, or something simple, albeit weird, like that.
On a sidenote, young players who play the summer in international compe ion usually do better the next year, and so far for White that is not happening.
Tbh Spoon would be the answer as the backup PG. He has the poise, skills to run the offense and play quality defense. But of course that’s not going to happen this season.
It'll probably materialize right before they get eliminated in the 1st round again tbh
I was really optimistic going into the off season but now? I have legit concerns. White and Murray need to take leaps in order for SA to make the playoffs and Lonnie probably has to force his way into the rotation with solid play.
The floor is scary low right now.
I feel the exact same way. In a perfect world the answer to that question would be Spoon because he is a modern nba point guard...good size...moves his feet...not afraid to shoot or attack the basket...
However Spoon is on a two way contract...you think Pop is going to play a guy any meaningful minutes on a two way contract...even if he could
I don't fault pop either...I don't trust Mills and Marco to even play basketball anymore let alone run the offense...I think Lonnie could do it eventually but he has to take his lumps like Murray and White did...it won't be pretty for him while he learns like it wasn't pretty for them at times...One thing I find interesting is that a lot of the pundits are lauding the Spurs for their versatile roster, particularly the bench, yet assuming this is how Pop feels, he doesn’t trust many with handling the ball there
I also replied to timvp about the fact that maybe he’s teaching both points to not rely on one another? I dunno, speculation but unlike so many here, I still try to trust Pop, even when it’s difficult.
On this team we have exactly 3 guys who can "run the offense"...and what I mean by that is they can get everybody into the position they are supposed to be...they can run the offensive set completely...they can quickly spot when the defense is out of position and break the set for an easy bucket...and they can in some way shape or form create a shot for themselves...that is murray, white, and derozan...so if you start all 3...who is left to do it when you start subbing them...
I would say there is a fundamental problem with your team and your veterans assuming leadership roles if a backup point guard who is on most nights a negative is that much of a leader in your locker room...
It's getting pretty crazy the stuff that Pop gets away with because he was Pop... i feel like if any other team kept a backup point guard on the roster because he was a leader people would talk about the lack of leadership on the team...
So we're going to base their viability as a tandem off of spot minutes from their infancy in the league? They can work, just not alongside DeRozan, as I explained.
No chance Mills is traded.
Why is the genius always given a free pass? He's as complicit in this 3 phobia that has engulfed this organization as anyone. Plenty of coaches have gotten plenty of established players to modernize their games, yet he can't even do it with young, unestablished types?
It won't because of the structure, not the relative newness. You can't play lineups with one 3-point shooter and expect to be successful.
There's no difference between DeRozan nominally playing "SG" or "SF". He's a wing. Murray and White will guard the best opposing perimeter player, so his job description doesn't change.
Gay has about as much chance of playing "SF" as Aldridge has of playing "PF". Even an organization as archaic as this realized he was strictly a "PF" the moment they signed him. At 6'8'' 240 with a 7'3'' wingspan, he plenty big enough. Similarly sized - smaller big wings like M. Williams, T. Young, J. Green, etc. were converted years ago. Sure, he'll have the odd matchup where he struggles, but for the most part he's thrived playing up a position (so has Aldridge).
The way this team is constructed, even if he could still play "SF", they can't afford for him to with 7 players who will see regular - spot minutes from 1-3 already and only 4 others who will from 4-5.
Why? There's no difference between the starting/closing units in terms of the need for floor spacing. If anything, it's a bigger concern down the stretch, which is why teams, including this one, have often closed small for years.
Last edited by TD 21; 10-15-2019 at 04:33 PM.
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