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if you want Forbes to come off the bench you first have to move Mills. Otherwise you're playing a back court with a net rating of -50
The answer should be obvious . . . but apparently not to this senile front office. If DeRozan is extended and it's not for the purposes of increasing his trade value (as I've already said, it's not their style and I don't buy that his value would increase in actuality), they're basically picking him over White.
Those two and Murray will more than likely never be tenable together offensively and Murray/White are too good and will eventually be too expensive to essentially split minutes long term.
White is Spurs material, but like Hill a generation ago, he explicably lacks confidence and the starting lineup needs a sizable 3 and D wing to balance the roster and move Forbes to his ideal off the bench role.
If they go that route, I could see White and Carroll for Covington next off season.
if you want Forbes to come off the bench you first have to move Mills. Otherwise you're playing a back court with a net rating of -50
I like Forbes in the SL, and I like the Dijon/Forbes combo. Since White is doing his own individual tank-job, I especially like the combo.
W
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Yeah, the increased weight and strength for both is evident. They should have little problem remaining a duo. Honestly, White is currently in the best position to show his true value. He gets a unit to himself. If he can't succeed there, it's not clear why PATFO shouldn't "choose" DeRozan over him. I certainly understand wanting "good" White over DMDR, but how often can we count on White being that guy? Maybe it's a simply an issue of not getting it yet, but some guys go their whole careers without ever having that mental change to play their best. You don't get rid of your stars in the hope that the young guys become as good as the players you get rid of.
Of all the problems with the rotation now (Mills getting PG minutes, Beli over Walker and Carroll, Lyles getting the first crack at the starting PF job), White not starting is so, so low on the list. If he were expiring, yeah, it could make sense. But with almost two years before you have to decide to give him a second contract, I don't see why it's something to worry about.
I say White but that question would be so much better to answer if this front office would turn DD into a player/asset in a position of need. It makes the team more complete while we are building the youth. I'd rather aquire a young athlete who is proven and signed to a 27 million dollar deal than offer that or more to DD at his age. And again when he is on the court the offense becomes dull seems to cut the flow of the young athletic guards that's why I would gladly take a front court young athletic player signed to a contract already. Let's face it nobody is realistically going to sign here that's a star or a superstar.
I'm not sure why it has to be 'either or' at this point. The West looks wide open to me. Put a package together built around patty, belli, lyles, and/or Carroll in some form or fashion plus a 1st and go get Gallo. If you can't get him get RoCo. Play for this post season and let's get our young guys some experience when the games matter competing for a le.
More importantly you would have to replace Forbes with an equally good/better 3-point shooter in the SL - which we don’t have.
I pretty much agree. I didn’t watch any pre-season games, so I don’t know what to think about Demarre, but with that admission/caveat I don’t dislike Lyles getting this early season opportunity. For a first year Spur starting the first two games, he has impressed me. Pop is apparently trying to give him an injection of confidence. While it is a bit early to tell, I hope it works, and Lyles builds on the very promising two game start to his Spurs career. Hopefully none of this reflects on our big off-season signing, Demarre, but I am mystified by his DNPs.
Mills’ PT is to be expected - Pop’s pet. Marco over Lonnie is more of Pop’s weirdness, but unlike most posters I am keeping my fingers crossed on Lonnie. The last time I saw him against NBA compe ion he looked lost.
I do regard White’s regression more seriously than you. As you note, time is on the Spurs side with regard to White individually. But if he was playing at the same level he did last season, Dumbmar would be easily expendable NOW. We could trade him for a good SF and shore up that position immediately. As long as White is in the doldrums, however, we really can’t afford to make that move. So we lose time as far as the team is concerned due to White’s regression.
I Think Pop is going to a lineup of LMA, Lyles, DDR. Murray and Forbes to keep Forbes Murray and DDr on the floor at the same time. DDR becomes the SF (although not the 3&D threat ) Lyles goes to a semi-stretch 4 and LMA plays center. It is not an optimum starting five according to their accepted skill sets, but you have to keep DDR on the floor with LMA and Forbes if you are going to have an acceptable range of shooting (perimeter, mid-range short.) The key will be if Lyles can prove out his skill set and develop a professional at ude on his game and career.
That way you still have useful slots for Walker and White at guard, Carroll and Gay at forwards and Poertl at center. That could be a very good unit together.
In close games to protect a lead or get a stop, you put in White and Murray together as they did last night. Pop is going to have to do a lot of tinkering with this squad because we have a log jam of guards all of whom can provide some valuable skills. Matchups and minutes are going to be key along with development of new players. Pop should really relish the idea of being the mastermind this season.
An ideal rotation for next season should look something like this:
-Murray
-White/Lonnie
-3D player
-Stretch 4
-Aldridge
-White/Lonnie
-Forbes
-Carroll
-Samanic
-Poeltl
I like this.
Filling out the blanks with what IMO would work with FA targets and potential trades.
Murray/White/Weatherspoon
Walker/Forbes/Mills
Covington/Carroll/Johnson
Gallinari/Gay/Samanic
Aldridge/Poeltl/Eubanks
if murray/forbes are as good as they've looked, then i have no issue with White being a "super sub" like manu or okc harden as the de facto PG who can also defend bigger players. given what he showed last year, he should be able to feast against second units. and you could still have him in the game alongside murray for defensive stops or certain stretches based on rotations.
but the burden is on him to remind us of what he's capable of. during the offseason he supposedly was dominating in the world cup practices, but we haven't seen anything resembling that in the preseason or in these first 2 games.
Yeah, I was forgetting about Gay. Count him in.
if we could actually acquire gallinari and covington, yeah this would be pretty incredible tbh
Feel like it's wishful thinking but that would put us into le contention.
Also White as a fairly young player who didn't really have an off season might just need a couple weeks or so off.
I am not as down on White as some seem to he, while he needs to be more aggressive offensively, I am probably most disappointed in his lack of consistency on defense. I think it's mainly a confidence issue and playing in a new role. At the end of the day he is still the 1st or 2nd best option we have to defend guards/wings and he is shooting 58% from the field while continuing to have low TO rate. If we are seeing his floor then there is little doubt we have a very good player on our hands. If this is who he is with the occasional outburst during the season, then he will still be a solid backup combo in this league for some time.
Derozan.
He was the best PG for San Antonio last year and most likely will be the best PG come playoff time
White's versatility makes his ceiling an elite role player. With more confidence in his shot, he could be something like what Brogdon was to the Bucks (worse shooting, better play making version).
DeRozan's ceiling has been seen for the past half dozen years. Zero versatility, pseudo star/2nd best player on deep teams that have no chance of contending with him playing the role of go-to option.
There's also the matter of a half decade age gap and the latter not having a style built to age well.
It's not so much starting (as I've long said, I think 6th man is White's ideal long term role on this team) as it is having a path to around 30 mpg and closing.
To use GusT15's example, if it's Covington and Gallinari, they can afford to move Forbes to the bench.
Realistically, Mills will remain in the rotation and Samanic won't be in it by next season, but they can mix and match accordingly to limit the amount and dictate the matchups Forbes and Mills play together in.
That's a quality, sensible team, but with no superstar and only one certified star (who doesn't look to have taken a step back, but at 34, easily could at any time), not a chance.
Murray has superstar potential and will fix a lot of the defensive holes we had last season, when we took a contending team right to the brink of elimination.
White's versatility makes his ceiling an elite role player. With more confidence in his shot, he could be something like what Brogdon was to the Bucks (worse shooting, better play making version).
DeRozan's ceiling has been seen for the past half dozen years. Zero versatility, pseudo star/2nd best player on deep teams that have no chance of contending with him playing the role of go-to option.
There's also the matter of a half decade age gap and the latter not having a style built to age well.
It's not so much starting (as I've long said, I think 6th man is White's ideal long term role on this team) as it is having a path to around 30 mpg and closing.
Realistically, Mills will remain in the rotation and Samanic won't be in it by next season, but they can mix and match accordingly to limit the amount and dictate the matchups Forbes and Mills play together in.
That's a quality, sensible team, but with no superstar and only one certified star (who doesn't look to have taken a step back, but at 34, easily could at any time), not a chance.
I don't even want derozen coming off the bench. He had a good 4th quarter against Washington, but tonight he was back to his normal playing style of choking away the game late
lol spursfans
Bogdanovic is another name to consider. There's no direct trade that makes sense, but they could pull in a 3rd team. Ship DeRozan for the Pistons, Magic, etc. for a lottery protected 1st and requisite salary ballast, then reroute that to the Kings for him. Or, ship White to the Timberwolves, etc. for the same return and do the same thing.
Star, maybe. Superstar is an extreme long shot. There's roughly 10 or less true ones at a given time. Even in the highly unlikely event he eventually reaches that level, by the time he probably would, the mid 3 will more than likely definitively be past their collective prime and/or gone.
The Nuggets weren't a contending team. They had pretender written all over them. One superstar/star, lack of experience, consensus 2 best players are defensive liabilities against the best compe ion, lack of size on the wings, unsustainable record in close games and the luckiest team in the league on wide open opponent 3s.
Last edited by TD 21; 10-30-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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