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  1. #251
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Humor me, ex. How much of that do you put on Pop?
    Some. This team isn't very well constructed, defensively. We also don't have many shooters, and most of the players that can shoot the 3 are poor defenders, so it's kind of a devil's bargain: spacing on offense or defensive chops. The best thing would be to get a shooter who is also a plus defender, and Pop sees that in Lonnie. It would do absolutely no good to bench Forbes or Patty. You need their shooting, and they'll never be any better on defense than they are now. Benching Lonnie was his only option to improve the team before New Years.

    Homegrown is best.

  2. #252
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Some. This team isn't very well constructed, defensively. We also don't have many shooters, and most of the players that can shoot the 3 are poor defenders, so it's kind of a devil's bargain: spacing on offense or defensive chops. The best thing would be to get a shooter who is also a plus defender, and Pop sees that in Lonnie. It would do absolutely no good to bench Forbes or Patty. You need their shooting, and they'll never be any better on defense than they are now. Benching Lonnie was his only option to improve the team before New Years.

    Homegrown is best.
    So why not try the defensive lineups and see if they can survive the lack of shooting? Results couldn’t have been worse win/loss wise.

  3. #253
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    Masterful job by Pop, tbh.

    After hiding from Kawhi, Pop didn't let him play. He let Walker build up his anger. Walker knew the next time, he needed to take advantage of the opportunity and not back down on either side of the court.

    Then tonight happens, when Walker is the best player on both ends. If Pop let's Walker off the hook and hide on defense like he did against Kawhi, we don't get games like tonight.

    Thanks, Pop. And, more importantly, great job Lonnie
    Pop always knows what he is doing. He is always a step ahead of us all and thinks in the long term. Even when we see Mills/Forbes/etc out there together in crunch time - there's a reason for that! It might not win that particular game but showing that he trusts them (whether or not they are to be trusted), it's a huge mentality thing. And if not for anything else, it's always for experimentation. After all, it is the regular season.

  4. #254
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Pop always knows what he is doing. He is always a step ahead of us all and thinks in the long term. Even when we see Mills/Forbes/etc out there together in crunch time - there's a reason for that! It might not win that particular game but showing that he trusts them (whether or not they are to be trusted), it's a huge mentality thing. And if not for anything else, it's always for experimentation. After all, it is the regular season.
    It might not win any games!

  5. #255
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    Some. This team isn't very well constructed, defensively. We also don't have many shooters, and most of the players that can shoot the 3 are poor defenders, so it's kind of a devil's bargain: spacing on offense or defensive chops. The best thing would be to get a shooter who is also a plus defender, and Pop sees that in Lonnie. It would do absolutely no good to bench Forbes or Patty. You need their shooting, and they'll never be any better on defense than they are now. Benching Lonnie was his only option to improve the team before New Years.

    Homegrown is best.
    DPG already said but it needs reiterating. We've seen every iteration of "shooters" lineups this season but about what... 5 mins total of Dejounte & White? If they were a game or two above .500 with these lineups, then you live with it. But they've been one of the worst teams in the league with a historically bad defense.

    I can't recall a single lineup this season where I go "yeah that makes sense defensively." Even the LMA/Jak lineups are stunted because it usually includes at least two of Beli/Patty/Bryn/Derozan.

    It's not rocket science. If you're a terrible defensive team, maybe you should try playing your best defensive players at the same time especially when your "offense lineup" options are getting obliterated game in/game out.

    Definitely more than "some" of the blame tbh.

  6. #256
    Lol Crews jjktkk's Avatar
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    You think Lonnies talent and abilities went from “can’t handle NBA minutes” to “best player on the floor” in 14 games? That’s some damn good development!
    I'm sure Lonnie could of handled NBA minutes right away, but Pop has never just thrown a young, inexperienced, player out there, just for the sake of getting minutes, to learn from their mistakes on the court, etc... It's just not his MO. You can disagree with it, but the results are there regarding players Pop has developed over the years. His way has worked often than not.

  7. #257
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I'm sure Lonnie could of handled NBA minutes right away, but Pop has never just thrown a young, inexperienced, player out there, just for the sake of getting minutes, to learn from their mistakes on the court, etc... It's just not his MO. You can disagree with it, but the results are there regarding players Pop has developed over the years. His way has worked often than not.
    Except with Tony, Manu, Kawhi and a bunch of others..yeah.

  8. #258
    Lol Crews jjktkk's Avatar
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    But how come with all other players Pop believed in they received constant opportunities? And that was on sure fire playoff teams too.

    TP, Manu, Kawhi etc all got hounded but didn’t they all get consistent opportunities?
    Different cir stances regarding LW. You're talking about 3 franchise players in Manu, Leonard and Parker, who proved they could handle minutes right away. Still, regarding Parker, Pop was constantly in Tony's grill yelling and screaming at him. TP proved he could handle it.

  9. #259
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    Except with Tony, Manu, Kawhi and a bunch of others..yeah.
    remember ghills rookie year? he fkn took a on everyone, only to see him in the playoffs not getting any minutes, i believe it was against the lakers where the spurs loss...pop was a pos here

  10. #260
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    yes. I would say it’s the opposite. Whatever success the young guys have is in spite of pop not because of pop. Who knows how well they’d play if they didn’t have to handle all of the unnecessary obstacles that pop creates. pop is awful. If these losses keep coming he might just quit to save his legacy that he cares about.
    Very insightful. Tell us about your coaching success.

  11. #261
    Gif-ted LakerHater's Avatar
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  12. #262
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Very insightful. Tell us about your coaching success.
    Lmao like ive laughed at these fools in other threads...we have a lot of wannabe coaches here.

  13. #263
    Believe. all blacks's Avatar
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    Drew reactions Is priceless!!!

  14. #264
    Lol Crews jjktkk's Avatar
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    So why not try the defensive lineups and see if they can survive the lack of shooting? Results couldn’t have been worse win/loss wise.
    DPG already said but it needs reiterating. We've seen every iteration of "shooters" lineups this season but about what... 5 mins total of Dejounte & White? If they were a game or two above .500 with these lineups, then you live with it. But they've been one of the worst teams in the league with a historically bad defense.

    I can't recall a single lineup this season where I go "yeah that makes sense defensively." Even the LMA/Jak lineups are stunted because it usually includes at least two of Beli/Patty/Bryn/Derozan.

    It's not rocket science. If you're a terrible defensive team, maybe you should try playing your best defensive players at the same time especially when your "offense lineup" options are getting obliterated game in/game out.

    Definitely more than "some" of the blame tbh.
    And how easy would it be for opposing teams to defend this defensive lineup of yours? Pack the paint and make the Spurs shoot from outside. Today's NBA is about scoring. Unfortunately our starters are flawed. Too many one dimensional shooters who can't create. Our bigs don't bang. Murray looks lost, White has regressed from last year, to which I think it's him dealing with plantar fasciitis. Lonnie could be that two way player this team needs.

  15. #265
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    And how easy would it be for opposing teams to defend this defensive lineup of yours? Pack the paint and make the Spurs shoot from outside. Today's NBA is about scoring. Unfortunately our starters are flawed. Too many one dimensional shooters who can't create. Our bigs don't bang. Murray looks lost, White has regressed from last year, to which I think it's him dealing with plantar fasciitis. Lonnie could be that two way player this team needs.
    Probably not as easy as it is to score on Forbes and Patty at will.

    You're missing the point. Yes, the starters are flawed. Yes, the roster is poorly constructed. But just try a White/Murray lineup for more than 5 mins in the entirety of the season. That's all people are asking for.

    You're fine with Pop trotting out a Forbes/Beli/Patty lineup (all offense, zero defense) that has yielded a lottery team but somehow a lineup of your best defenders who have shown flashes of offensive competence is unplayable because of a 5 minute sample size and your Pop knows best doctrine.

  16. #266
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
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    Very insightful. Tell us about your coaching success.
    Hi. You must be one of those pop is still in his prime and his skills will never degrade or diminish guys. You probably wish Bobby Bowden and Joe Pa were still coaching and think they were just as good when they were forced out as they were when they won les.

    i could say that I played at the collegiate level and coached. Or I could say that I coached in the NBA. Or I could say that I was Pop himself. But it’s irrelevant cuz you’ll never know.

    Pop himself would tell you that he’s failing to get it done and that his performance is unsat. But I’m sure you’d tell him to his face that he’s wrong.

  17. #267
    Lol Crews jjktkk's Avatar
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    Probably not as easy as it is to score on Forbes and Patty at will.

    You're missing the point. Yes, the starters are flawed. Yes, the roster is poorly constructed. But just try a White/Murray lineup for more than 5 mins in the entirety of the season. That's all people are asking for.

    You're fine with Pop trotting out a Forbes/Beli/Patty lineup (all offense, zero defense) that has yielded a lottery team but somehow a lineup of your best defenders who have shown flashes of offensive competence is unplayable because of a 5 minute sample size and your Pop knows best doctrine.
    I just wrote a paragraph explaining in detail the flawed rosters Pop has putting out there, and you think I'm fine with it? But how is a defensive lineup going to score? This defensive lineup you conjured up is afraid to shoot. And if Pop did trot out this defensive lineup of yours, you'd be the 1st in line on here, spouting off that "Pop is senile, an old man schtick once this lineup struggled to score points. And yeah, it's a no brainer, Pop does know best. When you constantly overexaggerate and make Pop come off like some dip on here, you really don't have a whole lot of credibility on here tbh.

  18. #268
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Different cir stances regarding LW. You're talking about 3 franchise players in Manu, Leonard and Parker, who proved they could handle minutes right away. Still, regarding Parker, Pop was constantly in Tony's grill yelling and screaming at him. TP proved he could handle it.
    They didnt know that with Kawhi or TP or Manu at the time. Lonnie proved he can handle yelling, the point was all those guys got minutes while getting yelled at and no, no one knew they were franchise players.

  19. #269
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I just wrote a paragraph explaining in detail the flawed rosters Pop has putting out there, and you think I'm fine with it? But how is a defensive lineup going to score? This defensive lineup you conjured up is afraid to shoot. And if Pop did trot out this defensive lineup of yours, you'd be the 1st in line on here, spouting off that "Pop is senile, an old man schtick once this lineup struggled to score points. And yeah, it's a no brainer, Pop does know best. When you constantly overexaggerate and make Pop come off like some dip on here, you really don't have a whole lot of credibility on here tbh.
    What do you trust more? Murray/White to get stops, push the ball and find points or Forbes/Mills to shoot consistently and get stops?

  20. #270
    Believe. Monkeyboy14's Avatar
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    I never post here, just read. Didn’t want to start a thread for this question but does anyone know why the Spurs have 6 days off after the next game?? And we don’t even have a back to back for a looong time.. does anyone know why? Is the nba stretching out the season?

  21. #271
    Lol Crews jjktkk's Avatar
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    What do you trust more? Murray/White to get stops, push the ball and find points or Forbes/Mills to shoot consistently and get stops?
    There has to be some sort of balance, to which LW is key. LW, we hope, has already relegated Beli to the bench. If Murray and White can come out of their offensive funk, then this team could really show some life. But now what do you do with DDR? Like I mentioned to you before, Trade DDR, and/or LA and go for a quick rebuild. Or keep LA and hope the trio of Murray, Walker, and White start coming on.

  22. #272
    Lol Crews jjktkk's Avatar
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    They didnt know that with Kawhi or TP or Manu at the time. Lonnie proved he can handle yelling, the point was all those guys got minutes while getting yelled at and no, no one knew they were franchise players.
    JMI, but Leonard, TP, and Manu showed from day one that they could handle whatever Pop threw at them. I don't think that was the case with LW.

  23. #273
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    You have lost perspective. You seem to think Pop is Lonnie's personal trainer. That is not the case.

    Pop is the head coach of a major professional sports franchise. The losses the team suffers go in the permanent records of all Spurs personnel. They also go in the permanent history of the franchise.

    Pop knows that. Do you? Do you understand what that means?

    You think Pop said, "sorry Tim, sorry Becky, and sorry to all you guys on the team, but I'm going to have to put 3 or 4 more losses on your permanent records, and on your professional resumes, to teach this kid - who isn't even a starter - a good lesson. You guys won't mind, I'm sure."

    Are you nuts? Or do you truly think Pop has gone insane?

    The reason why Pop was playing Beli instead of Lonnie is simply that Pop thought Beli was the better player. That is the truth of it. The sane truth. There was never any grand motivational scheme going on. It was merely questionable judgment by a coach who may be getting a little old for the job.
    People have really gone that far. It used to be funny all the CIA Pop stuff but now it’s gone too far.

    I really do think Pop couldn’t figure out what to do with Lonnie without sacrificing his pets’ minutes. He was already playing Murray and White only 20-22 minutes and not together to add to that the Lonnie factor. What minutes would all his pets get? He couldn’t figure out his best lineups.

    If it was just a call out he would have returned to the rotation a lot sooner.

  24. #274
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    I've lost perspective? ...
    Yes, you have.

    ... I'm saying Walker's improvement is more important in the big picture than the here and now. ...
    So your idea of the big picture is that the Spurs should lose games every year, that they might have won, in order to motivate and develop better young players every year. Gotcha. The Spurs should always be worse, in order to be better, is what you're saying. You think that makes sense.

    ... A win or loss here or there is not important compared to the improvement of Lonnie Walker IV. You apparently disagree and you think I've lost perspective?
    I think you've lost something in the area of rationality.

    You're trying to argue that it's okay for the Spurs to let a few games get away, that they might have won, for the sake of motivating Walker. Who is not even a starter, and who has a history of knee trouble. Sure, let's roll with that.

    Riddle me this. Premise: during that eight game losing streak, Pop intentionally let three close games get away, that the team might have won, by playing Beli instead of Walker, in order to motivate Walker, who Pop knows is of such importance to the team's future that wins and losses now don't matter. Then, in practice tomorrow, Walker, who has a history of knee trouble, tears up a knee so badly that he never plays effectively again, and never becomes a starter. And again, the head coach lost three games, that the team might have won, and he achieved that result.

    Discuss.

    If you really think Pop is that stupid, you're saying he should be fired immediately.

    In your oddball theory, injuries don't happen. Is that reality? Do you think that Pop thinks that's reality, that serious injuries don't happen, so that he would completely ignore the possibility - as he intentionally lets the team lose?

    Say that Pop had intentionally let games slip away, some years ago, in connection with trying to motivate James Anderson. How would that look now?

    The truth is, Pop never had any grand design to motivate Walker. Pop played Beli instead, because Pop thought Beli was the better player. That is what really happened.

    Huh? Part of Pop's job description is to make Walker better.
    No, that is not part of Pop's job description. He is not Walker's personal trainer. Far from it.

    The head coach's responsibility is to be sure that good instruction and good facilities are available to all the players, so the players can make use of those resources to make themselves better.

    To make themselves better. The only one who can make a player better is the player, himself. I am sure Pop knows that, because everybody knows that.

    Pop: "We have to get through to Lonnie that he has to be a two-way player in order to earn minutes. He has that ability but we're not getting it out of him yet. He seems like a strong kid who can take criticism. Let's coach him hard and push him to be the best he can be."

    Duncan: "But what about my permanent record?"

    Becky: "Yeah, my professional resume hangs in the balance, Pop."

    Do you believe that Coach Pop views the professional achievements of his staff as trivial matters that exist solely for his personal amusement?

    Walker played his first 8 or 9 minutes, or longer, in that Rockets game without any great distinction. His results at that point were maybe no better than Beli might have done. Pop left Walker in the game because Pop thought it was a sure loss, so the rest of the game was basically garbage time. He thought he was only giving the kid some more run in garbage time.

    Pop couldn't be blamed for thinking that. Every single person still watching that game at the end of the third quarter thought it was a sure loss for the Spurs.

    But the world we inhabit is full of surprises.

  25. #275
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Which part of my message says that?
    The part about being a good defender. Bad defense is no reason not to play Walker, instead of Beli, when Beli is such a bad defender.

    What you mentioned is no reason to not play Walker, on this team.

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