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  1. #176
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    Jesus Christ I seem passionate about this...

  2. #177
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Well if it's not more viable as a means of preventing illegal crossings and it's at least as expensive, it can't be more efficient.
    Well of course itís viable and more efficient. By definition it can catch cases a wall never will.

    The problem with the wall is that it has a low ceiling (pun intended). Itís basically a medieval solution to a much more complex problem against a well funded opponent. A wall is inherently expensive and inefficient, given the extent of the border, the maintenance cost and relatively high vulnerability.

  3. #178
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Just wait until they start using multiple drones to lift people over the wall. It's probably already happening.

  4. #179
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Right now there's no way to know how many illegals are in this country. Sure you can tell when they volunteer to be counted but otherwise you don't know.
    There are ways to do fairly good approximations. These people donít disappear into the underground. They use services. A good amount of them get a Tax ID and pay their taxes. Census count them (as a total of the population, but then you do know the legal/citizen count, so itís fairly simple math).

  5. #180
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    How is that a false dilemma? Efficiency is a rating, a rating has to have a standard.
    Just because something is structurally inefficient, it doesn't mean the only other solution is to make it structurally efficient. Believe it or not, there are other options.

  6. #181
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Sure I can think of a more sturdy fencing if fencing is the answer. If it's just that the fence isn't sturdy enough I think that's a different conversation. It's not hard to break through brick walls either. Even rebar reinforced concrete can be broken through with a simple sledgehammer over time.
    Sure hours. There should be patrols along any fencing as well. As it is now, they can take a sawzall and wait for the last patrol to leave and be through in less than half an hour. Get two people working in tandem and its faster.

    Reinforced pilings would take more that a sledgehammer if done right. You have to break away the concrete then cut out the rebar then do it again for every layer. More than enough time for a decent patrol time to come through.

    $10B or whatever the pricetag is to this point is a waste of resources.

  7. #182
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Well of course it’s viable and more efficient. By definition it can catch cases a wall never will.

    The problem with the wall is that it has a low ceiling (pun intended). It’s basically a medieval solution to a much more complex problem against a well funded opponent. A wall is inherently expensive and inefficient, given the extent of the border, the maintenance cost and relatively high vulnerability.
    This is very true but they do make sense in certain areas for example densely populated areas. Building it along the 1300 mile border and patrolling it 24/365 is an asinine idea.

  8. #183
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    There are ways to do fairly good approximations. These people don’t disappear into the underground. They use services. A good amount of them get a Tax ID and pay their taxes. Census count them (as a total of the population, but then you do know the legal/citizen count, so it’s fairly simple math).
    For numbers, sure, but not for individuals. For example, a known terrorist likely wouldn't come over on a visa. You'd not know if one crossed illegally at the border even if you could approximate the odds and about how many actual people may have crossed.

  9. #184
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    Jesus Christ I seem passionate about this...
    The Passion of the Jesus Christ

  10. #185
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    why a recip saw?

    An oxy torch would be quicker

    btw, Harbor Freight sells really good recip saws

    https://www.harborfreight.com/75-amp...saw-69067.html

    https://www.harborfreight.com/10-amp...saw-56250.html
    I love those things.
    There is something to be said for having the right tools. To saw almost anything. They are great for tight spaces.

  11. #186
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    Just because something is structurally inefficient, it doesn't mean the only other solution is to make it structurally efficient. Believe it or not, there are other options.
    I never said that.

    I said it has to be compared to another method. What other method of border control would you suggest?

  12. #187
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    I never said that.

    I said it has to be compared to another method. What other method of border control would you suggest?
    Oh right because "efficiency has a rating" could mean plenty of things besides structures.

    I'm fine with border control the way it was before Trump made it a political talking point. I'd even be fine with throwing a few extra bucks at adding BP agents. Just stop wasting money on a stupid inefficient wall.

  13. #188
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    Oh right because "efficiency has a rating" could mean plenty of things besides structures.

    I'm fine with border control the way it was before Trump made it a political talking point. I'd even be fine with throwing a few extra bucks at adding BP agents. Just stop wasting money on a stupid inefficient wall.
    Lol wanting the inefficient BP keeping up the status quo because that was def working wonders prior. Don't lie cuck you want open borders.

  14. #189
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    For numbers, sure, but not for individuals. For example, a known terrorist likely wouldn't come over on a visa. You'd not know if one crossed illegally at the border even if you could approximate the odds and about how many actual people may have crossed.
    I agree with this, but I would counter it makes even more pressing we secure the border in the most efficient manner, instead applying politically expedient gimmicks which we already know have a high degree of vulnerability.

    I mean, at least in some areas we already have a multi-layered system with in land checkpoints (which predate any wall), but even those, being locally static, can be planned for.

    Ultimately, proactive intelligence work likely has the best return on investment when it comes to organized crime (and again, not a wall)

  15. #190
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    I agree with this, but I would counter it makes even more pressing we secure the border in the most efficient manner, instead applying politically expedient gimmicks which we already know have a high degree of vulnerability.

    I mean, at least in some areas we already have a multi-layered system with in land checkpoints (which predate any wall), but even those, being locally static, can be planned for.

    Ultimately, proactive intelligence work likely has the best return on investment when it comes to organized crime (and again, not a wall)
    I would suggest manned towers along the walls and regular crisscrossing thermal imagine drone surveillance ops. Maybe some land mines and concertina wire on high chain link fences with auto rapid target acquisition mini guns.

  16. #191
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I would suggest manned towers along the walls and regular crisscrossing thermal imagine drone surveillance ops. Maybe some land mines and concertina wire on high chain link fences with auto rapid target acquisition mini guns.
    Don’t forget seismic sensors. Tunnels are a thing.

  17. #192
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    Oh right because "efficiency has a rating" could mean plenty of things besides structures.

    I'm fine with border control the way it was before Trump made it a political talking point. I'd even be fine with throwing a few extra bucks at adding BP agents. Just stop wasting money on a stupid inefficient wall.
    I said that after you said my comment was a false dilemma.

    How can something be deemed inefficient if there's no way to measure efficiency?

    You keep offering up baseless objections and balk when called out. Think about your objection and avoid the logical fallacy accusations until you actually understand how they work.

  18. #193
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    Don’t forget seismic sensors. Tunnels are a thing.
    Snipers as well. Build military bases along the border. If they cross between them surely they will be seen.

  19. #194
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    BTW, Concertina wire is widely deployed at the border...

  20. #195
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Snipers as well. Build military bases along the border. If they cross between them surely they will be seen.
    Cameras and Sensors are much more cost effective

  21. #196
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    Trumpís Impenetrable Wall Isnít So Impenetrable | The Daily Show


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=15&v=VCkIva2L-B0

  22. #197
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    Lol wanting the inefficient BP keeping up the status quo because that was def working wonders prior. Don't lie cuck you want open borders.
    Don't lie you weren't scared of the border before Trump told you to be scared

  23. #198
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    I said that after you said my comment was a false dilemma.

    How can something be deemed inefficient if there's no way to measure efficiency?

    You keep offering up baseless objections and balk when called out. Think about your objection and avoid the logical fallacy accusations until you actually understand how they work.
    inefficient

    adjective
    US /ˌɪn∑ɪˈfɪʃ∑ənt/

    wasting time, money, energy, or other valuable possessions or qualities

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/...sh/inefficient


    I'd like to see your definition of "efficiency rating"

  24. #199
    #freeshit 2020 Chris's Avatar
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    Blake taking a break from laughing at all the idiots to provide a non-answer.

  25. #200
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    Chris taking a break from the James Woods Twitter feed to do that troll thingy

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