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  1. #76
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    Obviously the coaching staff looks at the +/- and sees the same stats LJ is sharing. So what does that say about them? Are they suddenly expecting Forbes to turn a corner? The most eye-opening stat is the defensive points allowed. That should be an obvious red flag. Is it just that there's no one to fill that role? Are the Spurs stuck because everyone else to pair with Murray or White sucks even worse than Forbes?

    Here's a thought Pop, play your two best guards, White and Murray, together, and limit Forbes minutes off the bench. Not too hard.

  2. #77
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
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    Murray, White, DeRozan, Gay and Aldridge. Gay is the hardest call of the bunch but, IMO, if you have two isolation scorers in DeRozan and Aldridge, you might as well have a third in Gay instead of trying to space the court as has been done traditionally.
    This makes sense to me and I like the idea of Rudy starting and closing because he wants to win and can score when you need it. Good thread...those stats on Forbes...ouch!

  3. #78
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Finding a real NBA player out of the scrap heap of undrafted free agents is no small feat. That in and of itself is worthy of praise.

    If you want to say Forbes is being used incorrectly, that's fair. It's also fair to say he should be traded in an effort to balance out the roster. But to criticize the Spurs for finding a quality UFA? Misguided.
    Not only that, but Forbes is the only one since last season consistently being put in a spot to fail and asked to punch above his weight. He has limitations, limitations coaches should understand, yet it’s them who made him a PG for a while. Them who start him and ask him to defend the players he does.

    He consistently fights hard, brings effort and despite his flaws is an nba caliber player. I don’t fault guys like that. I fault those who: A) have talent and underperform B) dont bring effort consistently and C) never take steps forward in their games.

    Bryn is none of that.

  4. #79
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Obviously the coaching staff looks at the +/- and sees the same stats LJ is sharing. So what does that say about them? Are they suddenly expecting Forbes to turn a corner? The most eye-opening stat is the defensive points allowed. That should be an obvious red flag. Is it just that there's no one to fill that role? Are the Spurs stuck because everyone else to pair with Murray or White sucks even worse than Forbes?

    Here's a thought Pop, play your two best guards, White and Murray, together, and limit Forbes minutes off the bench. Not too hard.
    That is what is scary. It would be one thing if you had guys do the things you have asked of them before and they are loafing it and Pop sees that. But this team? Not only are the rotations bad, but they just have too many players who have never done what SA is asking of them and Pop should know that.

    He knows Mills is a bad defender. He knows Beli is atrocious on defense. He knows Forbes can’t hang with PG/SG that are starters in the NBA. Yet? That is the ask and request? Just “figure it out”?

  5. #80
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    Murray, White, DeRozan, Gay and Aldridge. Gay is the hardest call of the bunch but, IMO, if you have two isolation scorers in DeRozan and Aldridge, you might as well have a third in Gay instead of trying to space the court as has been done traditionally.
    Interesting. I could see Gay starting along side Aldridge, White, Murray, but not sure about him starting along side Derozan. I just see as Derozan as a bad fit next to Aldridge or Aldridge a bad fit next to Derozan. I think Carroll needs more time at the 3/4, White and Murray need to play more together, Forbes needs to come off the bench, and no Belinelli

  6. #81
    Veteran ginobilized's Avatar
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    Great insight, timvp!

    I can see the Spurs moving cautiously with Lonnie since he doesn't seem quite ready to seize this opportunity. There will be changes and those changes affect the team and family. These are not things to do without plenty of data. 13 games is starting to give them the data.
    Moving Lonnie up too soon could backfire for the present and long-term. If they are on a 20 game losing streak and trotting out the same lineup, then, the blame is on them. Hopefully some changes come soon.
    Carroll for Forbes in the starting 5 makes the most sense to me, btw. He must've done something very wrong to be getting the treatment he's getting.

  7. #82
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Good article. I have mentioned it b4. Pop just simply doesn’t want to accept it. I wouldn’t call him starting an experiment bc he’s been the starter for 2 seasons and Pop hasn’t felt like he needs to be replaced or minutes adjusted... basic statements from Pop are we are what we are... and we are defensively challenged and we knew the team we had. They consider him an integral part of this team. Lonnie getting minutes is an experiment, Bryn is not.

    not his fault Pop overplays him and places him in position to get exposed. Beyond that his fit on defense with a second wing that can’t cover for him in demar makes it worse.

    It was elightening to read that his impact on offense isn’t as positive as expected either. I have been on a “bench Forbes path” since he started getting overplayed and it only has gotten worse since then.
    Last edited by SAGirl; 11-18-2019 at 04:25 PM.

  8. #83
    Believe. DaBears's Avatar
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    Too Me Bryn Forbes and Patty Mills have been the 2 best players on this roster so far, and that is not a compliment. Give Credit to both of them but this team is going nowhere fast if it stays the course.

  9. #84
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    the fun fact is that people say Pop is starting Forbes so him and Mills don't have to play off the bench together, but somehow he still finds ways to play them both together for stretches

  10. #85
    One TEAM One Goal siraulo23's Avatar
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    Great stuff kinda expected he hurts the Spurs on the defense

    Didnt think the numbers on offense also against Forbes

  11. #86
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    Too Me Bryn Forbes and Patty Mills have been the 2 best players on this roster so far, and that is not a compliment. Give Credit to both of them but this team is going nowhere fast if it stays the course.
    Yes you are right..offensively speaking

  12. #87
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    wow you finally realized what 50% of the forum has been saying since 1935....Such Genuis..
    Side note on your give and take comment: How is it possible SA built a team with no shooting AND terrible defense
    Normally you have give and take - you have players that are great shooters but you have to live with defensive issues. Or you have a great defensive team but their lack of shooting hurts. SA managed to build a roster full of bad 3PT shooting and terrible defenders???




    Jesus christ what a damning article. Someone send that to Pop.

    It's mostly on Pop for overusing him though. Especially when there's a much better option, that was ready to have a breakout year, on the bench playing 23 mpg. You'd also have to imagine that atleast defensively, Forbes would have a little more success going up against second units. But then he'd be paired with Wombat so the best outcome would probably be if he just gets thrown into a DeRozan trade, tbh.
    I mentioned this in the Magic interested in DeRozan thread. Forbes is probably in line for something like 3-4 years/$7-8M a season. Given his poor fit on the roster, they have no business giving him that (unless they're willing to trade Mills, which we all know isn't happening).

    If they're not going to get sufficient 3-point shooting out of their best players, then they at least need to have it out more sizable ones.

  13. #88
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I actually love Forbes. He's coming to play every single night.
    And they will pay him a lot for that but it’s not about heart or effort with him.

    He can lead the tankathon

  14. #89
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    Ideally, Forbes should be a human victory cigar. Nice story.

    But a starter??? That's a shameful job by patfo. Shameful.

    Forbes as a starter is a big reason why I didn't renew my league pass, and why I turned down free tickets to a Spurs game. He's woefully inadequate and painfully boring to watch.

  15. #90
    Like I said... tmtcsc's Avatar
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    Numbers don't lie & some of the Spurs' struggles could be attributed to Forbes' defensive liabilities BUT he's giving effort when he's on the court. At least he has a ing pulse and knows when his team is losing, needs a timeout or a big shot. At least you can tell he cared enough about his craft to work on getting in better shape and being productive on the court. Yes, its come to this with the current Spurs roster. He's earned his spot in the starting rotation. Maybe the slugs who start with him need to be benched.

    I agree with those who say Forbes shouldn't be starting but that's more of a damning statement against the other players on the team. WTF is going on when you are outplayed by an undrafted free agent? As a player, where is your pride? At best, Forbes should be playing a Mills type of role from 2013-2014. Instant offense off the bench and padding leads or cutting an opponents lead with some quick 3's. That's how upside down this roster and the last 2 years have been.
    Last edited by tmtcsc; 11-18-2019 at 05:39 PM.

  16. #91
    Believe. JuneJive's Avatar
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    Murray is just getting started.

    We should see him and White sharing the floor pretty soon.

    Judgment should be witheld, at least until some time passes.

  17. #92
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Pretty much the whole team needs to play better except for Forbes and Patty who are playing at what seems to be their best. Maybe Lyles too but it seems he could do more.

    Too bad about Forbes and the Op. He is one of the more like able Spurs.

  18. #93
    You have no idea UZER's Avatar
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    Finding a real NBA player out of the scrap heap of undrafted free agents is no small feat. That in and of itself is worthy of praise.

    If you want to say Forbes is being used incorrectly, that's fair. It's also fair to say he should be traded in an effort to balance out the roster. But to criticize the Spurs for finding a quality UFA? Misguided.
    In Bryn’s case, they go hand in hand. He made the roster because Pop fell in love with Rudy Jr and won’t stop playing him.

    What’s misguided is calling him a quality UFA. The dude should be checking in only as a heat check guy. If he ain’t hitting, he should be yanked. That’s not quality. That’s cir stantial.

  19. #94
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Also, I don't care what the question is, Patty Mills is not the freaking answer. EVERYTHING that is wrong with Forbes in the SL is wrong with Mills. Have you been watching the way they have been going at Patty the minute he comes into the game? That was a no-name starter that ran through Forbes. There are no-name bench players running through Patty. Replacing Forbes with Patty solves the Forbes problem, but only by replacing it with the Mills problem.

    The first and easiest improvement they could make is to go sign Walt Lemon as a third PG. The problem of Murray's minute restriction isn't a problem anymore. Then re-evaluate the statement about Pop not being able to start DJ and White because of Murray's restriction.
    Have to agree I wouldn’t start Paddy either. I actually prefer to test any of the other youngins they have, Carroll or a gleague player like Danny once was. There’s no excuse for this. There’s no amount of blaming Kawhi after 2 years or Morris that can make one believe the FO can’t do anything.

  20. #95
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I am totally fine with taking Forbes out and agree; he’s been a massive disappoint but I also understand Pop asks him to punch above his weight every year (PG last year, starter at the NBA level).

    But, regarding “blame”? Why would people not blame DeRozan more than Forbes? They traded kawhi for Derozan and he’s the highest paid player and is a terrible defender in his own right.

    In terms of being able to fix things, Forbes being removed helps and he deserves some blame, but honestly I never feel great about blaming guys like Forbes who compete and are younger/cheap vs the stars.

    Would be different if this was a Tim situation where he is dominating and just has no help; but that is not the case here. The blame lies on Pop, DeRozan and LMA first and foremost even if others like Forbes are a bigger issue than people realize.

    Side note on your give and take comment: How is it possible SA built a team with no shooting AND terrible defense Normally you have give and take - you have players that are great shooters but you have to live with defensive issues. Or you have a great defensive team but their lack of shooting hurts. SA managed to build a roster full of bad 3PT shooting and terrible defenders???
    Wait until Forbes gets his 50 mills type deal and you will start to feel less fine with this IMO.

  21. #96
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    In Bryn’s case, they go hand in hand. He made the roster because Pop fell in love with Rudy Jr and won’t stop playing him.
    Who is Rudy Jr?

    What’s misguided is calling him a quality UFA. The dude should be checking in only as a heat check guy. If he ain’t hitting, he should be yanked.
    What you described is quality for an UFA.

  22. #97
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    Forbes will be swapped for White eventually, it's inevitable. So it comes to spacing. I've been saying for ages, if the backcourt is Murray/White, LMA will have to be a stretch 5 & shoot 3's & one of Gay or Carroll starts at the 4. The spacing needs to come from the bigs. Bench defense isn't that important IMO.

  23. #98
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    Good read..thanks....and the FO will still sign him to a 4 year $70 mil. deal.

  24. #99
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    wow you finally realized what 50% of the forum has been saying since 1935....Such Genuis..
    Right. You could see who he was and who he could be in a best case scenario years ago.

    Just a decent shooter at the end of the bench. Nothing more.

  25. #100
    You have no idea UZER's Avatar
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    Who is Rudy Jr?

    What you described is quality for an UFA.
    Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!

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