Amateur: Luke Donkey Is Not The Next Me

[Spurtacular]

You can make whatever excuses you want... For the losses.... Magic didn't just beat him with a superior team but Beat him head to head when both had HOF teammates as well, minus 1984.

Bird had to face off against the Sixers in the early 80's in the early grueling years while the Lakers played nobody and choked in 81 to an eight seed. The C's would wear them down for the Lakers. Despite that, the Sixers swept the Lakers asses in 83.

As for head to head:

84 - Bird wins in 7. Would've been 6 if not for Stern's cheating. BS fouls on McHale and what not to force a Game 7.
85 - Stern had to cheat midseason and change the pivotal Game 5 to LA. C's overloaded in an unsuccessful effort to get 3-2 and were on flimsy legs for Game 6.
86 - Lakers would've got their asses kicked, but Magic wasn't good enough to get there.
87 - Obvious missed calls that threw the series to the Lakers, including the game that Magic hit the hook shot. That should've been C's ball.

Your head to head schtick is the same nonsense every Laker fanboy throws out there.

[Spurtacular]

Doncic > Bird if he wins 1 ring (only 1). Doncic >>> Bird if wins multiple. Just a better player on paper, better stats likely by the end of his career, better to start, etc etc.

[ambchang]

You can make whatever excuses you want... For the losses.... Magic didn't just beat him with a superior team but Beat him head to head when both had HOF teammates as well, minus 1984. No one will argue he was a better passer than magic unless you are, trying to prop up Bird... Bird was the best passing forward ever pre LeBron... But neither are good at Magic was at passing, just stop.

Leadership is very subjective and the homesick sounds much better than I hated Bob Knight and struggled in the Big 10...
Magic won HS state, ncaa and nba le in less than 5 years that is leadership. Bird has no nba finals performance that even sniffs magic's game 6 vs Philly despite his three straight MVps.

Yall just mad that LeBron is now the Goat SF and Luka now the new great white hype... Doesn't mean Bird ain't still great Luka has a long way to catch his legacy and Bron surpassed him a few years ago.. happens... Magic passed him too get over it.

Magic has always been winning with stacked teams. There wasn't a single second where bird wasn’t the best player on the Celtics yet magic was clearly the 2nd banana on the lakers until 1985, arguably 1986. And you want to say they had equal teams?

Birds passing was great but he didn’t handle the rock as much.

Not sure why you had to bash bird. The worse bird looks the worse magic looks.

[Killakobe81]

Magic has always been winning with stacked teams. There wasn't a single second where bird wasn’t the best player on the Celtics yet magic was clearly the 2nd banana on the lakers until 1985, arguably 1986. And you want to say they had equal teams?

Birds passing was great but he didn’t handle the rock as much.

Not sure why you had to bash bird. The worse bird looks the worse magic looks.

Saying Magic was better or Luka has potential to be better isn't bashing Bird... Amb I expect that from casuals...you always bashed a certain player when making comparisons I'm just stating fact. There is no large gap either way.. Bird is the second greatest SF (though pre injury Durant was building a case as Kawhi is now some could argue KD has passed him tho I won't here) ever, Magic the greatest PG, period. They both were the two best players in the 80s, despite a decade that at Jordan started in 84 and included Kareem Malone Moses Hakeem Robinson etc. That is not bashing I just don't have some ulterior motive for over rating him either.. I could easily say KD was better till his Achilles went out... Having a bad back doesn't give Bird any sacred cows just like Aids doesn't help magic early injuries illness doesn't give a player a bonus... This isn't rap were great artisists that are murdered are elevated because we never saw them age magic and Bird both got old its part of their story...

[Killakobe81]

Just like with MJ everyone acts like Birds career ended in 86 or MJ after the second three peat... Bird was the best player in the NBA from 81-1984 God bless him for that but his entire career was not as good as a whole than most of the general NBA top 10-15. Bird and (Magic to a lessor degree) gets a false boost for saving the NBA but SF has fiercer compe ion until recently than PG... You can make a case for Stockton or Steph but by and large no one has challenged Magic at PG while LeBron and KD are arguably greater (career wise not peak)

[endrity]

While I am not old enough to have seen Bird play live, I have seen plenty of his games later on. The man was a monster for the very same reasons that Luka, Dirk and other white players are. Their decision making is perfect, they know their limits and don't make mistakes, they get to their spots - and when they do, they can score as well as anyone else in the league, no matter their relative athletic deficiencies.

By 2011, Dirk's high-post/elbow-extended isolations were incredible. Those are positions that everyone runs away from now, but Dirk had mastered every move and angle by that point. He was playing off memory any time he touched the ball in those areas.

Same goes for 1986 Bird, which is as good a basketball player as anyone in the last 40 years. There was no type of defense that could bother him. Outside or inside, back-to-the-basket or facing-the-basket, he had mastered every single shot. After that, his back gave up and he quickly became a s of the player he once was.

So yeah, Luka needs to win a lot before he can enter the same conversation. In fact, he still needs quite a lot to enter Dirk territory. Good thing is, he has every tool needed to get there, including the brains. Hopefully, his body keeps up, the FO makes good decisions, and there is no reason that in 10 years we are not talking about him in the same manner. But it is way too early.

[ambchang]

Saying Magic was better or Luka has potential to be better isn't bashing Bird... Amb I expect that from casuals...you always bashed a certain player when making comparisons I'm just stating fact. There is no large gap either way.. Bird is the second greatest SF (though pre injury Durant was building a case as Kawhi is now some could argue KD has passed him tho I won't here) ever, Magic the greatest PG, period. They both were the two best players in the 80s, despite a decade that at Jordan started in 84 and included Kareem Malone Moses Hakeem Robinson etc. That is not bashing I just don't have some ulterior motive for over rating him either.. I could easily say KD was better till his Achilles went out... Having a bad back doesn't give Bird any sacred cows just like Aids doesn't help magic early injuries illness doesn't give a player a bonus... This isn't rap were great artisists that are murdered are elevated because we never saw them age magic and Bird both got old its part of their story...

Saying Magic was better or Luka has the potential isn’t bashing, the reasons you used are the bashing’s.

KD better than bird is a joke. He has done nothing without an absolutely stacked team, and sometimes couldn’t go anywhere even with a stacked team.

[lefty]

Bird > Magic > Ed Nealy > Luka Doncic

[Clipper Nation]

He has done nothing without an absolutely stacked team, and sometimes couldn’t go anywhere even with a stacked team.

You do realize this exact same argument applies to Bird, right? Those Celtics teams were stacked.

[Spurtacular]

Bird was the best player in the NBA from 81-1984

Try 80-88.

[lefty]

Try 80-88.

That tbh

[lefty]

You do realize this exact same argument applies to Bird, right? Those Celtics teams were stacked.

Look at Bird’s impact on Boston in his rookie season with the corpses of Maravitch and Cowens and without Parish and McHale

And the Lakers roster was more stacked than Boston’s anyway
They also had an easier conference, and when teams threatened them , Stern suspended their players

Everybody was doing coke in the 80s

[Spurtacular]

That tbh

And when healthy enough, on any given night still the best in the early 90's too.

Still wish the C's would've gotten past the Cavs in the 7th game.

That Bulls-Celtics series would've been epic, and it probably would've added one more season to Jordan not winning a championship.

[lefty]

And when healthy enough, on any given night still the best in the early 90's too.

Still wish the C's would've gotten past the Cavs in the 7th game.

That Bulls-Celtics series would've been epic, and it probably would've added one more season to Jordan not winning a championship.

Not to mention Stern murdered Bias

MJ himself admitted he was happy to see Bird retire

[Spurtacular]

They also had an easier conference, and when teams threatened them , Stern suspended their players

Corrupt AF.

[Spurtacular]

Not to mention Stern murdered Bias

One wonders.

[Killakobe81]

That tbh

Hahaha

[Killakobe81]

Try 80-88.

[Spurtacular]

80 is arguable b/c I'm really gauging it based on Bird clearly making the difference from a team standpoint rather than simply an individual standpoint.

But if you really want to , you literally cut off Bird's final two MVP seasons (85,86) on your analysis.

Then I give 87 and 88 to Bird because it's obvious he was still the best all-around player and ultimately played at the MVP level for the fourth and fifth straight season.

The scary part is how much better he could've been if he hadn't severed his finger in the off-season before his rookie season.

It took him four seasons to get his outside shot anywhere near to what it was in college.

[lefty]

80 is arguable b/c I'm really gauging it based on Bird clearly making the difference from a team standpoint rather than simply an individual standpoint.

But if you really want to , you literally cut off Bird's final two MVP seasons (85,86) on your analysis.

Then I give 87 and 88 to Bird because it's obvious he was still the best all-around player and ultimately played at the MVP level for the fourth and fifth straight season.

The scary part is how much better he could've been if he hadn't severed his finger in the off-season before his rookie season.

It took him four seasons to get his outside shot anywhere near to what it was in college.

don’t bother, Lakers fans still believe their team invented basketball

[Spurtacular]

Saying Magic was better or Luka has potential to be better isn't bashing Bird.

Stupid or bashing. Semantics, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

don’t bother, Lakers fans still believe their team invented basketball

Biggest fanboy base in all of sports, tbh.

[Killakobe81]

For the mental midgets:
Stats metrics and rings only matter for Timmy D but in every other debate its MVP and romaticiized bull ...

PER: Magic 24.11 (14th) vs 23.50 (19th) Close but Magic wins here
Playoff PER: Magic 22.9 (19th) vs. Bird 21.41 (29th)

Win shares: Magic 155.79 (21st) vs Bird 145.83 (24th)
Playoffs Win shares: Magic 32.63 (5th ) vs. Bird (11th) (BTW Magic only trails Lebron, Jordan, Duncan and Kareem here ...just sayin')

Win/48: Magic .2249 (9th) vs .2032 (22nd)
Playoffs Win/48: Magic .2078 (5th) vs .1731 (31st)

Offensive Rating Magic 120.79 (4th) vs Bird 114.53 (65th)
Defensive Rating Magic (196) Bird (63rd) Bird destroys him here the one advanced metric that favors Bird clearly

Rings: Magic 6 vs. Bird 3* (including of 3 of 4 head to head with that NCAA le game ass whuppin')

MVPs: Bird 3 vs. Magic 3 (Bird got three straight props though MVP's dont mean as much to me but when Bird and to lessor degree Magic got them ... they meant more)

Finals MVPs: Magic 3 Bird

All NBA: Magic 10x Bird 10x

You want more?

SI all time: Magic 6th, Bird 7th
ESPN NBA rank: Magic 4th Bird 6th

But let me throw you a few bones if we go to TRADITional COUNTING STATS whuch have been discredited around here ....

Career stats:

career pts: Bird 34th Magic 81st
Career Reb: Bird 54th Magic 138th
career asts: Magic 5th Bird 42nd
Career stls: Magic 21st Bird 36th

Playoff Points: Bird 12th Magic 15th
Playoff Rebounds: Bird 1tth Magic 18th
Playoff Assists: Magic 1st Bird 6th
Playoff Steals Magic 4th Bird 8th

So In some career numbers including FT shooting and 3 pt shooting Bird is withput a doubt better than magic but rings, metrics (save defensive rating), experrts all point to Magic ... but hey lets not let facts get in the way of romantic fiction ...

[Killakobe81]

BTW my boy Luka just dropped another triple double ...

[Killakobe81]

Bird had to face off against the Sixers in the early 80's in the early grueling years while the Lakers played nobody and choked in 81 to an eight seed. The C's would wear them down for the Lakers. Despite that, the Sixers swept the Lakers asses in 83.

As for head to head:

84 - Bird wins in 7. Would've been 6 if not for Stern's cheating. BS fouls on McHale and what not to force a Game 7.
85 - Stern had to cheat midseason and change the pivotal Game 5 to LA. C's overloaded in an unsuccessful effort to get 3-2 and were on flimsy legs for Game 6.
86 - Lakers would've got their asses kicked, but Magic wasn't good enough to get there.
87 - Obvious missed calls that threw the series to the Lakers, including the game that Magic hit the hook shot. That should've been C's ball.

Your head to head schtick is the same nonsense every Laker fanboy throws out there.

What a ty post ... - 10 pts for refs ing, son ...

"the refs only cheat when my TEAM or Favorite player loses!! snif, sniff waaaaaa!!!