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  1. #51
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    Spurs have win-now youth. Not meaning a le, but in terms of blowing it up, if you get a top pick for a year or two, they should not be some bottom dweller for too long because the talent is young enough (not prospects, but young) and talented enough to win some games with an infusion of real prospects and some key free agents.

    Going to have to build the team more modern with lots of switch ability and faster paced with shooting.
    Granted, it hasn't been put in the best position and the most promising of it hasn't been given a chance period, but Spurs fan overrate the youth.

    There isn't a single sure fire core building block, let alone centerpiece. Look around at most average - bad teams, almost all have better pieces.

    Most seem excited about Murray, but the reality is his metrics read like that of a role playing center. In terms of the things a point guard needs to excel at to be a star, he's not a natural at one and even with some improvement, is still below average at them.

    If and when this team ends up with a high pick, they need to avoid the mistake of thinking they're set at any particular position or that a specific one is the biggest need and realize that biggest need is high end talent period.

  2. #52
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    I pose the same question to you..

    How much time(seasons gone by before you say he reached his ceiling)? -- I said year 3
    It's not about years... It's about his role... He barely played... If he doesn't show ANY growth two full years as a starter, he will be 25...and then I will throw in the towel... But I find it hard to believe that Murray will be worse than a white is right now when he reaches 25...i think Murray is better than white right now... The numbers and the eye test back me up... The chart going around on here shows Murray provides just as much offensive production, while being our best defender

  3. #53
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Granted, it hasn't been put in the best position and the most promising of it hasn't been given a chance period, but Spurs fan overrate the youth.

    There isn't a single sure fire core building block, let alone centerpiece. Look around at most average - bad teams, almost all have better pieces.

    Most seem excited about Murray, but the reality is his metrics read like that of a role playing center. In terms of the things a point guard needs to excel at to be a star, he's not a natural at one and even with some improvement, is still below average at them.

    If and when this team ends up with a high pick, they need to avoid the mistake of thinking they're set at any particular position or that a specific one is the biggest need and realize that biggest need is high end talent period.
    I agree with the last part; there is no youth so good on SA that if you land a top pick and the surefire best player plays their position that you pass on them because of the current youth.

  4. #54
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    Not even a PG
    Insta-balla
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  5. #55
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    Okay following your reasoning and mine, How much time(seasons gone by before you say he reached his ceiling)?
    At least until he enters his prime. Most basketball players are usually on their best combination of mental maturity and physicality at around 28-29, but I'd say around 25 or 26 you could have a more definite idea of what he's going to turn out at. Especially for a player who missed his sop re season injured, not being able to work on his game for the most part... You can see he still feels "awkward" on the court, causing a lot of his mistakes. I especially trust in his jumper, he has the mentality and basic form to be a decent-to-great shooter (with *a lot* of hard work), which would elevate his game.

    I just don't understand how you can see Dejounte be 2 rebounds away from a triple-double in his, what was it, fifth game back from injury? And really think that, at 23, he can grow no further. Reminds me of people saying Doncic had peaked in Europe, before entering the league... Eating their words now. DJ's contract runs up at 27 iirc, so we'll be able to give him another contract knowing the kind of player he'll be.

  6. #56
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Murray needs settle down and to consistently take and make 15’ or so jumpers off the pick and roll action and standing 3 pointer both at respectable percentage and the game will open up for the drive and score and the drive and kick.
    He has to learn how to shoot for him to be special.

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  8. #58
    #POPOUT
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    told u months ago that murray isnt special. Just an average player with good defense. Whats worse, hes the best asset spurs have now.

  9. #59
    Believe.
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    Murray needs settle down and to consistently take and make 15’ or so jumpers off the pick and roll action and standing 3 pointer both at respectable percentage and the game will open up for the drive and score and the drive and kick.
    He has to learn how to shoot for him to be special.
    Terrible take. MURRAY WAS DRAFTED TO GET TO THE PAINT.

  10. #60
    Lab Animal Capt Bringdown's Avatar
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    Murray is a potent symbol of the Spurs decline - the point at which reality overtakes myth.
    Lo and behold Spurs do not have some special sauce regarding drafting/player development.

  11. #61
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Terrible take. MURRAY WAS DRAFTED TO GET TO THE PAINT.
    It aint working. If he could shoot defenders would need to not slough off and the defender is therefore able to challenge him on the drive at the rim.

  12. #62
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    Terrible take. MURRAY WAS DRAFTED TO GET TO THE PAINT.
    No. It’s a good take. The bottom line with Murray is, indeed, that he has to learn to shoot to be special. Otherwise he is just another MCW.

  13. #63
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Murray is a potent symbol of the Spurs decline - the point at which reality overtakes myth.
    Lo and behold Spurs do not have some special sauce regarding drafting/player development.
    Yeah, sure, let's just take a look at the other 29 teams' success with 29th picks...

    People really be expecting the FO to draft the next superstar with end of first round picks. Ridiculous. Murray is a home-run of a pick even if he never makes an All-star team in his career, but y'all just grasping at any straw to on the Spurs org. Kinda sad tbh...

  14. #64
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    No. It’s a good take. The bottom line with Murray is, indeed, that he has to learn to shoot to be special. Otherwise he is just another MCW.
    If Murray could force his defender to go over the top of screens he would be able to find more happiness.

  15. #65
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    If Murray could force his defender to go over the top of screens he would be able to find more happiness.
    Yes, and a whole lot of fans, too!

  16. #66
    Believe. alpha_HaZE's Avatar
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    Yes, that's what I was thinking. Remember when Patty said, during training camp, we go where Dejounte take us? That is so true, isn't it? But then again Sean Elliott said that he is not going to be the best version of himself until early 2020. So that's that, I guess.

    I think Pop is unfairly criticized for not playing young players, but in reality we suck because he is doing exactly that playing both Dejounte and White, and Trey Lyles, and Poeltl. So yes, there is no space for Lonnie, especially if he playing even worse than DJ and Derrick.

  17. #67
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    If Murray could force his defender to go over the top of screens he would be able to find more happiness.
    Murray did, at least, sling up a couple of 3pt tries this game. Not with success, but he slang 'em in the direction of the basket thingy. Great journeys begin with small steps.

  18. #68
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Murray did, at least, sling up a couple of 3pt tries this game. Not with success, but he slang 'em in the direction of the basket thingy. Great journeys begin with small steps.
    Alas my hope is that some time-soon I hope- that he can make that pick and roll jumper and an open 3 at a percentage that forces the defense out on him. When that happens he goes by people at ease. All the way to the hoop with an advantage

  19. #69
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    There is no young talent on this team, the sooner the FO realises this the better and they might have since we are tanking. I'm talking about real talent, no ifs and whether he does that and in due time and like that.

  20. #70
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    ppl saying murray needs a jumper to be special must not watch giannis...it's called roster construction...if they put a ton of no-defense playing, mid-range shooters around giannis, he wouldnt have grown into the player he is today...Murray not only doesnt have the space to operate (let's cut the ...he gets into the paint at will), but he has no one to pass to once he gets there...combine that with his passive play due to having to coddle DDR and LMA with the ball all while trying to cover up all his teammates' defensive lapses, u can see why ppl who dont study the game would say he isnt that great...put different players around him, u will see a drastic change...until then, he needs to say these boomers and do his own thing...coddling them will be the reason he fails

  21. #71
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    ppl saying murray needs a jumper to be special must not watch giannis
    Murray is too light and slight to be compared to
    Giannis.
    Murray cannot finish at the rim like
    giannis
    Murray is a fine player but to be "special" he needs to force defenders to move out toward him.
    only way to do that is to scare them with the potential of making an outside shot.
    And yes he can get to the rim now with success but the defender is usually waiting to meet him there.
    Murray will find much happiness if he can arrive at the rim with his defender left in the dust


  22. #72
    Emperor Duncan>>>>>King James tim_duncan_fan's Avatar
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    ppl saying murray needs a jumper to be special must not watch giannis...it's called roster construction...if they put a ton of no-defense playing, mid-range shooters around giannis, he wouldnt have grown into the player he is today...Murray not only doesnt have the space to operate (let's cut the ...he gets into the paint at will), but he has no one to pass to once he gets there...combine that with his passive play due to having to coddle DDR and LMA with the ball all while trying to cover up all his teammates' defensive lapses, u can see why ppl who dont study the game would say he isnt that great...put different players around him, u will see a drastic change...until then, he needs to say these boomers and do his own thing...coddling them will be the reason he fails
    What people are seeing is that he isn't that much of a difference maker because he is afraid to shoot the ball.

    He should have way more attempts but he passes up opportunities waaay too often, basically any time he's not right at the rim. The lack of aggression is his real problem.

  23. #73
    Make a trade steal
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    Murray is overrated by Spur fans.

  24. #74
    Defense Wins Championships Texas_Ranger's Avatar
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    I'd trade him in a second. Just as I'd do it with White. While I am at it, I'd get rid of every single player on this roster.

  25. #75
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Both Murray and White need to be influential scoring threats or so sorry there is not much of a chance that this team has even a punchers chance to be post season fodder.

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