What are your realistic Dream Packages if we have a fire sale?

[exstatic]

Jrue Holiday would be an upgrade.

DeMar and Marco for Ross and Gordon.

DeMar and Marco for LaVine and Thaddeus Young.

LaVine is empty calories, a younger version of DDR.

[exstatic]

They're roughly the same amount, which is not the issue; the question is why on Earth would the Pelicans trade their all-D PG for a non-D, non-shooting SG/SF who is extremely ball-dominant, when they have a roster full of players to develop and already have Ingram at SF and Red , who they won't trade at least for the time being, at SG. There will absolutely be better offers from contending teams, probably including picks or young players, both of which the Spurs wouldn't be wise to include.

So, beyond FO re ation, which isn't the norm for New Orleans as far as I'm aware - which would be the great incentive that would make SA the primary suit in a DeRozan for Jrue trade? It's not even like you can sell DD as purely a big expiring since he's got a 27M PO for next season so even if, as you say, the Pels were so desperate to offload salary (which they aren't anyways since they're not in the luxury tax...) they would surely prefer a contract that ends this season without any additionals, again something many other FOs can offer.

So please, since you've analyzed the situation so thoroughly, please explain to me how the Spurs would be the primary suitors for Jrue - I won't even mention that it's a lateral move and clogs a position that isn't of urgent need for us - I'm curious.

You're STILL looking at this as strictly a basketball transaction. If I had to put money on it, i'd bet that DDR will opt out next summer. He would be the best player available if you disregard AD and think he will automatically re-up with the LAL. His bestie Lowry just re-upped for one year. They may actually be trying to set up a situation where they play together again.

So, that would mean N.O. being on the hook for a player just about right at 30 who is due like $55M in the two years AFTER this one, and they're a small market team headed nowhere. That's why they're putting out feelers. He doesn't fit their development cycle.

[RC_Drunkford]

lol @ the sniffers saying "b-b-but Holiday is a PG, we already have 2 PGs" when Pop plays 2 guys who are shorter than him and can't guard a chair at SG and plays 2 SGs at SF. Holiday at the 2 would be better in every facet of the game than Fryn Borbes. I'm also not saying trade DeRozan for Holiday straight up, I'm saying you can design trade packages around those 2 since they are in the same salary range.

My prime target right now would be Myles Turner though. He'd fit perfectly with the young core, it's just hard for me to see what kind of package would work for both teams since LA and DeFrozan earn way more money than Turner

[r0drig0lac]

lol @ the sniffers saying "b-b-but Holiday is a PG, we already have 2 PGs" when Pop plays 2 guys who are shorter than him and can't guard a chair at SG and plays 2 SGs at SF. Holiday at the 2 would be better in every facet of the game than Fryn Borbes. I'm also not saying trade DeRozan for Holiday straight up, I'm saying you can design trade packages around those 2 since they are in the same salary range.

My prime target right now would be Myles Turner though. He'd fit perfectly with the young core, it's just hard for me to see what kind of package would work for both teams since LA and DeFrozan earn way more money than Turner

exact, while other teams are playing big or small-ball, Pop is the only coach going micro-ball in the entire league.

[TimDunkem]

Jrue Holiday would be an upgrade.

DeMar and Marco for Ross and Gordon.

DeMar and Marco for LaVine and Thaddeus Young.

Come ahnnn...

[Down Under]

DD for Aaron Gordon & Augustin would do me. AG would have to accept he's never going to be a star & try & reinvent himself as an elite 3 & D guy.

[DAF86]

They're roughly the same amount, which is not the issue; the question is why on Earth would the Pelicans trade their all-D PG for a non-D, non-shooting SG/SF who is extremely ball-dominant, when they have a roster full of players to develop and already have Ingram at SF and Red , who they won't trade at least for the time being, at SG. There will absolutely be better offers from contending teams, probably including picks or young players, both of which the Spurs wouldn't be wise to include.

So, beyond FO re ation, which isn't the norm for New Orleans as far as I'm aware - which would be the great incentive that would make SA the primary suit in a DeRozan for Jrue trade? It's not even like you can sell DD as purely a big expiring since he's got a 27M PO for next season so even if, as you say, the Pels were so desperate to offload salary (which they aren't anyways since they're not in the luxury tax...) they would surely prefer a contract that ends this season without any additionals, again something many other FOs can offer.

So please, since you've analyzed the situation so thoroughly, please explain to me how the Spurs would be the primary suitors for Jrue - I won't even mention that it's a lateral move and clogs a position that isn't of urgent need for us - I'm curious.

Nobody is saying th Spurs would be the primary suitor for Jrue. In fact, I didn't even propose the trade nor do I think it's a likely one. I just explained to you why the trade isn't as ridiculous as you think it is.

Holiday's and DeRozan's basketball abilities are totally irrelevant in this scenario since the Pelicans are one of the worst teams in the entire NBA right now. They have no expectations of doing anything relevant whatsoever. With that in mind, DeRozan's virtually expiring 27 millions might be more enticing for the Pelicans than what you might think. Heck, he even would help them tank better. And if the Spurs add a pick to the trade, forget about it, the Pelicans would be re ed to refuse.

Do you get it now?

[JeffDuncan]

You're STILL looking at this as strictly a basketball transaction. If I had to put money on it, i'd bet that DDR will opt out next summer. ...

Y'know, since they're basketball players, who play basketball, that sorta makes it a basketball transaction. You see.

Who is going to pay DDR more than $27.7 million? Name that team.

Really. Name that team.

[Prime BEEF]

LaVine is empty calories, a younger version of DDR.

Come on. Really? That’s just lazy.

LaVine can hit 3s, is a better pure scorer, doesn’t have to get his buckets with iso ball, is young and can still get even better, isn’t a mentally weak depressed player, and is clutch during end of game moments. They’re pretty much nothing alike. If you don’t like him that’s fine but he’s nothing like DDR.

[TimDunkem]

Come on. Really? That’s just lazy.

LaVine can hit 3s, is a better pure scorer, doesn’t have to get his buckets with iso ball, is young and can still get even better, isn’t a mentally weak depressed player, and is clutch during end of game moments. They’re pretty much nothing alike. If you don’t like him that’s fine but he’s nothing like DDR.

Yeah. Even if you believe he's empty calories, you can't say they're the same player.

[dbestpro]

I'd give up a 2nd round draft pick to get rid of Pop. Maybe a protected first.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't think I've seen any trades in this thread that are actually realistic... LOL at thinking Pels are re ed enough to take DeMar and give out Jrue. It'd take a first pick or even two on our part to entice them, and probably one of DJ-White-Lonnie. Same for LMA for Covington LMAO.... Do you think teams watch LMA and DeMar choke and be negative assets, remnants of years past, overpaid and over-the-hill ing asses and think "yeah that's the kind of player we need!"? Get ing real.

Holiday is owned over 75 millions over the next three seasons. DeRozan is an expiring contract. A lottery team like the Pels would probably like to offload Holiday's contract.



It seems like you are the one that needs to analyze things a little bit more to see if a trade is plausible or not, tbh.

Some people still fail to realize that many basketball transactions aren't talent based, they're financial. That all started nearly 20 years ago (summer of 1999) when Orlando would literally give you anyone on their roster for an ending contract so that they could go FA shopping in 2000. They were the first to place value on an ending contract.

[R. DeMurre]

I can still see Orlando thinking Terrence Ross is unnecessary now with the emergence of Fournier and Fultz. He's signed for three more seasons at a pretty reasonable salary (about $12mil/per). Aminu is also signed thru two more years after this season at about $10mil/per. I can see Orlando thinking Vucevic/Gordon/Issac/Fournier/Fultz are the core going forward and being willing to lose those two longer term contracts in order to free space for other options.

[JeffDuncan]

I can still see Orlando thinking Terrence Ross is unnecessary now with the emergence of Fournier and Fultz. He's signed for three more seasons at a pretty reasonable salary (about $12mil/per). Aminu is also signed thru two more years after this season at about $10mil/per. I can see Orlando thinking Vucevic/Gordon/Issac/Fournier/Fultz are the core going forward and being willing to lose those two longer term contracts in order to free space for other options.

Aminu, torn meniscus, no timetable for his return, and his shooting is very lousy this year. .291 ftom the field and .250 from the three. Pass.

[R. DeMurre]

Aminu, torn meniscus, no timetable for his return, and his shooting is very lousy this year. .291 ftom the field and .250 from the three. Pass.

Let him sit out for a year. Doesn't matter. In 2020, he plays good D for 22 mpg. Trading DeRozan is addition by subtraction.

[objective]

re: any trade with Orlando

According to Sportrac, they're only $2,273,671 below the tax.

IF they somehow were interested in DeRozan, they would be in danger of being a future tax team by them keeping DeRozan and Fournier/Ross. (either after an opt-out or the year after). And of course having to extend Isaac and Fultz.

Because of that I wouldn't think they'd go into the tax for this season, in order to delay the repeater tax.

That means that while something like DeRozan for Gordon and Birch might work in the trade machine, it would put Orlando into the tax for this year.

If there was a trade, I would think it would be something like DeRozan/Marco for Gordon/Ross, or Gordon/Fournier.

[RC_Drunkford]

Y'know, since they're basketball players, who play basketball, that sorta makes it a basketball transaction. You see.

Who is going to pay DDR more than $27.7 million? Name that team.

Really. Name that team.

New York Knickerbockers. They are known to do dumb

[TD 21]

This argument is basically that the Spurs should lose in order to secure a top three pick. I co-sign.

Actually, that wasn't the argument at all. It's that people need to stop thinking of a lottery protected 1st or prospect of commensurate value as the likely asset for Aldridge and DeRozan and start thinking of it as said asset being the possible vehicle to a package deal that allows them to get into or near a top 5 pick (if they don't secure one on their own volition).

[Sugus]

You're STILL looking at this as strictly a basketball transaction. If I had to put money on it, i'd bet that DDR will opt out next summer. He would be the best player available if you disregard AD and think he will automatically re-up with the LAL. His bestie Lowry just re-upped for one year. They may actually be trying to set up a situation where they play together again.

So, that would mean N.O. being on the hook for a player just about right at 30 who is due like $55M in the two years AFTER this one, and they're a small market team headed nowhere. That's why they're putting out feelers. He doesn't fit their development cycle.

We'll have to agree to disagree since I don't think DeRozan is opting out of that PO, unless something extraordinary happens like him being traded to a team mid-season where he knows he won't re-sign and he'd rather be a FA. I seriously can't think of any teams that could, and would, offer DD upwards of 28M/year, besides the Hawks maybe. He could go for a longer contract at less M/y but I fail to see any team that might receive him at the price tag he's looking for - remember the report about him seeking a max extension? I think he's played enough with, and is close off the court with, Lowry to the point that a reunion wouldn't be his main concern instead of financially securing himself - and he could perfectly take the 28M and still be a FA next season at 31.

Again, the thing is - N.O. could trade Jrue for DD. But would they do it when S.A. will probably not have the best offer, there's other teams with salaries to match that expire this season with no options, and they can wait out for the best offers at the deadline since they've got him secured for two seasons? I'm looking at it beyond basketball and it's still not making much sense. Pels obviously consider Jrue a positive asset - an All-D vet in his prime secured on a long contract - whereas DeMar is probably seen as salary dump by all but the dumbest teams in the league; just like CP3, another skilled player who isn't worth the $. And IMO S.A. should refrain from any trades involving their own picks until their future situation is clearer.

[Prime BEEF]

re: any trade with Orlando

According to Sportrac, they're only $2,273,671 below the tax.

IF they somehow were interested in DeRozan, they would be in danger of being a future tax team by them keeping DeRozan and Fournier/Ross. (either after an opt-out or the year after). And of course having to extend Isaac and Fultz.

Because of that I wouldn't think they'd go into the tax for this season, in order to delay the repeater tax.

That means that while something like DeRozan for Gordon and Birch might work in the trade machine, it would put Orlando into the tax for this year.

If there was a trade, I would think it would be something like DeRozan/Marco for Gordon/Ross, or Gordon/Fournier.

I’m good with both of those trade options

[RC_Drunkford]

If they decide on keeping DeRozan and Aldridge this team still needs a starting caliber PF and SF (or SG if Pop keeps playing DeRozan at the 3). Trey Lyles and Bryn Forbes ain't it

[mo7888]

When is Rudy trade eligible? I had been under the impression he was available December 15th but I saw somewhere on ESPN that it's not until January. Does anyone know which is correct?

[Chinook]

When is Rudy trade eligible? I had been under the impression he was available December 15th but I saw somewhere on ESPN that it's not until January. Does anyone know which is correct?

Pretty sure it's Januray due to how big of a raise he got from last year. When a guy re-ups with a club that has his Bird rights and gets a raise of more than 20 percent from the last year of his previous year, he's a BYC player, which used to mean a lot of other things but now pretty much just means he can't be traded until after 01/15 rather than 12/15 like a normal FA.

[exstatic]

We'll have to agree to disagree since I don't think DeRozan is opting out of that PO, unless something extraordinary happens like him being traded to a team mid-season where he knows he won't re-sign and he'd rather be a FA. I seriously can't think of any teams that could, and would, offer DD upwards of 28M/year, besides the Hawks maybe. He could go for a longer contract at less M/y but I fail to see any team that might receive him at the price tag he's looking for - remember the report about him seeking a max extension? I think he's played enough with, and is close off the court with, Lowry to the point that a reunion wouldn't be his main concern instead of financially securing himself - and he could perfectly take the 28M and still be a FA next season at 31.

Again, the thing is - N.O. could trade Jrue for DD. But would they do it when S.A. will probably not have the best offer, there's other teams with salaries to match that expire this season with no options, and they can wait out for the best offers at the deadline since they've got him secured for two seasons? I'm looking at it beyond basketball and it's still not making much sense. Pels obviously consider Jrue a positive asset - an All-D vet in his prime secured on a long contract - whereas DeMar is probably seen as salary dump by all but the dumbest teams in the league; just like CP3, another skilled player who isn't worth the $. And IMO S.A. should refrain from any trades involving their own picks until their future situation is clearer.

Don't forget how dumb the Knicks are. They could easily be the landing spot for both Lowry and DDR. Their fans are so desperate that the FO could sell that as something good after they got completely punked last summer.

FA decisions are usually based on the class. Other than DDR and AD, who is like 99% going to re-sign with the LAL, there is only one other 20 point scorer, Brandon Ingram, and he's restricted. Players in lean classes often get overpaid.

I'll just leave you with a couple of links, and you can decide which FA class you'd rather be a part of:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2021/

[Sugus]

Don't forget how dumb the Knicks are. They could easily be the landing spot for both Lowry and DDR. Their fans are so desperate that the FO could sell that as something good after they got completely punked last summer.

FA decisions are usually based on the class. Other than DDR and AD, who is like 99% going to re-sign with the LAL, there is only one other 20 point scorer, Brandon Ingram, and he's restricted. Players in lean classes often get overpaid.

I'll just leave you with a couple of links, and you can decide which FA class you'd rather be a part of:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2021/

If your idea of a realistic scenario is the Knicks ing up their entire timeline as a bottom-feeding, very young, absolutely not ready for contention team where their best players are either 19 or won't be there next season, by signing both Lowry and DeMar, two over the hill vets who have at the most 2-3 elite seasons left... That sadly sounds like something the Knicks may do. But I would not call that "realistic" and I don't think you would either, since the entire premise lays on another team making a completely illogical and very big move. Prime DD+Lowry couldn't get it done on the Raps with a team built around them, why would the Knicks think otherwise with their roster situation?

So, once again, barring a completely re ed Knicks move in which I would put no faith (there's many other equally re ed moves that they could make and would make them better), our best and only suitor would be N.O.... Where, if we're going with your assumption that DD opts out, would mean a Jrue-DD trade would be simply a salary dump on their part. I'll say it again - trading their All-D, on his prime, star guard, literally only as a salary dump once DD opts out to leave the New Orleans hole. Tell me again, since I seem to have missed it - why would you think that's the best offer the Pels are going to get for Jrue? A matching, expiring salary is literally the bottom line that any other team will offer - any trade offers will start at our "ideal package" - which means we'd have to sweeten the deal with either picks or young players, both of which I'd rather not trade out at this time and this uncertainty regarding the Spurs' future.

I go back to my original point - most trades being proposed ITT are delusional, either viewing DD/LMA as positive, desirable assets for other teams, or assuming no other teams will want to jump ahead of the Spurs on bargain deals. Since SA doesn't have FA draw nor has a recent record of excelling in trades - quite the opposite, in fact - I stay skeptic.