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  1. #51
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    If Kurt Thomas was worth a first back in the days, then Bertans is worth one too.
    Different time. Mid to late 1st round contracts are bargains for 4 years in an era where contracts are expensive.

  2. #52
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    He's still unplayable in the playoffs.
    He gets bullied n the post, beaten offthe dribble, and only has one skill, the 3 pointer. If I’m an owner, and my GM gives up a first rounder for Davis, I’m firing him. I like the kid, and he can space the floor, but he’s only a role player.

  3. #53
    near awake, semi-coherent
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    He gets bullied n the post, beaten offthe dribble, and only has one skill, the 3 pointer. If I’m an owner, and my GM gives up a first rounder for Davis, I’m firing him. I like the kid, and he can space the floor, but he’s only a role player.
    A role player that can guard 2 spots effectively.... and give you 12 points in 15 minutes.... seems like that is better than most mid first rounders turn out.

  4. #54
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    He gets bullied n the post, beaten offthe dribble, and only has one skill, the 3 pointer. If I’m an owner, and my GM gives up a first rounder for Davis, I’m firing him. I like the kid, and he can space the floor, but he’s only a role player.
    Hahahaha stop sniffing son. Bertans is a damn good player, who has proven to be way above average in terms of impact every season he played in the NBA. We would kill to have him right now. But, then again, Pop would probably only play him around 18 minutes per game.

  5. #55
    Believe.
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    Funny how the same people that were hating Bertans on ST now miss him


    This

  6. #56
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    A role player that can guard 2 spots effectively.... and give you 12 points in 15 minutes.... seems like that is better than most mid first rounders turn out.
    If they can guard two spots and give 12 in 15 minutes you might really get some assets
    However, not many of those around

  7. #57
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    If Kurt Thomas was worth a first back in the days, then Bertans is worth one too.
    On July 20, 2007, Thomas, along with the Suns' first-round draft choices in 2008 and 2010, was traded by the Suns to the Seattle SuperSonics in exchange for a conditional second-round draft choice and an $8 million trade exception.[8]
    Phoenix SENT two first rounders WITH KT, and received a critical second in return. If you’re going to
    act like you know , it might help if you maybe knew at Least a little .

  8. #58
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    On July 20, 2007, Thomas, along with the Suns' first-round draft choices in 2008 and 2010, was traded by the Suns to the Seattle SuperSonics in exchange for a conditional second-round draft choice and an $8 million trade exception.[8]
    Phoenix SENT two first rounders WITH KT, and received a critical second in return. If you’re going to
    act like you know , it might help if you maybe knew at Least a little .
    Oh, the irony.

    https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3255661

    SAN ANTONIO -- The San Antonio Spurs acquired veteran forward Kurt Thomas from the Seattle SuperSonics on Wednesday night for guard Brent Barry, center Francisco Elson and a 2009 first-round draft pick.
    Now go sit in the corner with your mouth shut and think about how you shouldn't try to talk to people who is clearly more inteligent than you, tbh.

  9. #59
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Just because the Spurs gave up a 1st for Thomas, that doesn't mean he was really worth one.

  10. #60
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    I'm watching a little of the Kings vs Wizards. Especially, watching Bertans try to play defense. He still looks the same. Let's just say "not good" and leave it at that.

  11. #61
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Some here keep saying we don't need 3pt shooters
    Some here keep saying 3-point shooters should be primarily evaluated on their defense . . .

  12. #62
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    I'm watching a little of the Kings vs Wizards. Especially, watching Bertans try to play defense. He still looks the same. Let's just say "not good" and leave it at that.
    +4 on a game where his team lost by 7. For the season, he's +10.5 (the Wizards score 3.4 pts more when he's on the court and allow 7.3 pts less on D). Those numbers are on par with the type of positive impact he has provided during his entire NBA career. So, yeah, I would say his defense and overall play have been just as fine as always, which is pretty damn good for a 3pt role playing specialist.

    This is why advanced stats exist, tbh: to not let personal bias or a subjective view get in the way of reality when assessing a player's contribution.

  13. #63
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    since 2014 which players were product of the "Spurs system"?
    Jonathan Simmons. Kyle Anderson.

  14. #64
    I will not be mishandled MI21's Avatar
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    Oh, the irony.

    https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3255661



    Now go sit in the corner with your mouth shut and think about how you shouldn't try to talk to people who is clearly more inteligent than you, tbh.

  15. #65
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    +4 on a game where his team lost by 7. ...
    Say what? His team LOST??? They had Bertans and they LOST??? Imagine having Bertans and LOSING. How on earth did that happen?

    So, yeah, I would say his defense and overall play have been just as fine as always, ...
    If you say his defense is "fine" any rational person would say you've got a head full of chicken feathers. Or chicken something.

    This is why advanced stats exist, ....
    Yeah. To give morons a chance to argue about a losing player on a losing team with a losing record as though he was worth something.

    You speak of reality. You should try it sometime.

    Guy, Bertans shoots 3s. That is what he does. And that's nice. But when you start trying to argue that he can play defense you have just gone fliptop insane.

  16. #66
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Yeah he just shoots 3s.

    12 6 2
    20 8 4
    21 5 4
    15 8 3

    That type of production for a 6th man is really good for any team
    In this league especially for a player who doesn’t take 20 shots per game like Lou. And unless I’m reading wrong it looks like he’s actually rebounding and getting as many or even more assists in games than Dejounte, White, or Forbes get.
    I say that Bertans is a lousy defender, which he is of course, and we end up with you saying he has more assists than Forbes.

    The Coyote has more assists than Forbes. Almost.

    It's going to he a wacky holiday season. I can tell already.

  17. #67
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Oh, the irony.

    https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3255661



    Now go sit in the corner with your mouth shut and think about how you shouldn't try to talk to people who is clearly more inteligent than you, tbh.
    Sat in the corner for the rest of the day as a penalty for not reading down one more entry on his transactions, and of course, it would be US that paid the first rounder for him. Hard to remember that we almost never kept and used our 1st round picks back then. The very next year was when they started the draft and develop plan with GHill.

  18. #68
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Say what? His team LOST??? They had Bertans and they LOST??? Imagine having Bertans and LOSING. How on earth did that happen?
    Because the rest of the team sucks as a whole? It wouldn't be the first time that a good player loses on a bad team. That's how team sports work, tbh. Just ask Lebron last season.

    If you say his defense is "fine" any rational person would say you've got a head full of chicken feathers. Or chicken something.
    His defense is more than fine for a 3pt shooting role player. Infinitely better than other 3pt shooting specialist like Bellinelli, Forbes and Mills. That's why his team allows 7.3 pts less on D when he's on the floor, tbh.

    Yeah. To give morons a chance to argue about a losing player on a losing team with a losing record as though he was worth something.

    You speak of reality. You should try it sometime.
    Ok, no, let's just take your word for anything basketball related. Who needs actual numbers and evidence when we have your opinion, son?

  19. #69
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Say what? His team LOST??? They had Bertans and they LOST??? Imagine having Bertans and LOSING. How on earth did that happen?

    Aw ... they putting estrogen in the water supply again?


    Here's a fun idea, boys and girls: Let's wait to see if someone actually gives up a first round pick for Bertans, before we melt down about it. And even if that happens, let's see if it's so heavily protected that it turns into a 2nd round pick in 2022 or something.

  20. #70
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Bertans is averaging 13 ppg, 4.6 rpg and 2 apg on 64 TS%.

    Just for context, Korver averaged 12 ppg, 4.1 rpg and 2.6 apg on 69 TS% when he was selected to the all-star game.

  21. #71
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Bertans is averaging 13 ppg, 4.6 rpg and 2 apg on 64 TS%.

    Just for context, Korver averaged 12 ppg, 4.1 rpg and 2.6 apg on 69 TS% when he was selected to the all-star game.

    With respect - Korver was a starter, playing almost 33 MPG. Before the ASB, he was shooting 52% from 3P, and had a TS% of .731.

    That was really a historic season by Korver. He finished the season with 911 points, a TS% of .699, and a 3P% of .492. The closest anyone has come to that is Steph in 2018 - he had a 3P% of .423 and a TS% of .675. I don't deny that Bertans is putting up good numbers. But Korver was hands-down an All Star that season, and Bertans isn't anywhere near that.

    Atlanta traded him to Cleveland for 2 players and a first round pick. The pick was protected, and did not convey. And that's one of my points from earlier. A pick that is protected and doesn't convey doesn't really help the team at all (unless they can package it in a trade and it becomes someone else's problem.)

  22. #72
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    With respect - Korver was a starter, playing almost 33 MPG. Before the ASB, he was shooting 52% from 3P, and had a TS% of .731.

    That was really a historic season by Korver. He finished the season with 911 points, a TS% of .699, and a 3P% of .492. The closest anyone has come to that is Steph in 2018 - he had a 3P% of .423 and a TS% of .675. I don't deny that Bertans is putting up good numbers. But Korver was hands-down an All Star that season, and Bertans isn't anywhere near that.

    Atlanta traded him to Cleveland for 2 players and a first round pick. The pick was protected, and did not convey. And that's one of my points from earlier. A pick that is protected and doesn't convey doesn't really help the team at all (unless they can package it in a trade and it becomes someone else's problem.)
    I'm not saying Bertans deserves an all-star nod, tbh. I was just comparing his stats to an all-star so that some folks realize just how well Davis is doing right now. Some still seem to think that he is a borderline rotational scrub when, in fact, he would be a very important role player for any contender. Probably even a top 5 minutes getter and closing-lineup player. That's definitely worth a late first round pick for a team with championship aspirations. The type of first round pick contenders get, tbh.

  23. #73
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    A team like the Rockets would love to have Bertans on it's roster. Under D'antoni, Davis would probably get 35 minutes and 12 3pt attemps per game.

  24. #74
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    A team like the Rockets would love to have Bertans on it's roster. Under D'antoni, Davis would probably get 35 minutes and 12 3pt attemps per game.
    Would fit defensively

  25. #75
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    A team like the Rockets would love to have Bertans on it's roster. Under D'antoni, Davis would probably get 35 minutes and 12 3pt attemps per game.

    Can't argue with that one bit. Bertans would be a terror on Houston.

    I knew what you were saying about the Korver comment. Just happened that I knew about that season of Korver's. Mostly I was pointing out that he got traded for a first round pick that turned out not to be a pick at all. I don't think anyone is going to give up a first round pick for Bertans, personally. If they do, it's going to be one of those heavily protected picks that turn into a second-rounder. He's a good player, especially this year, and he's got trade value. But this thread goes too far.

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