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  1. #76
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    They don't have to decide to build around DeRozan or blow it up. They can (and are planning to) play DeRozan to stay compe ive while growing their young guys. In that vein, yes, it's important that they are close to the seventh seed. It's completely unimportant that they are close to 13th. They aren't trying to avoid the worst record in the league --they are trying to get a top-eight record in the conference.

    They can afford to lose DeRozan for nothing. People keep acting like you sign or trade for players to keep indefinitely. But that's not the case. They made that trade specifically to remain a playoff team for two years. If they were so desperate to keep him, they'd've caved on an extension. Guys can walk. It's okay. The most valuable piece to Spurs' future is likely going to be the team's natural picks after bottoming out. Seriously acting like the team NEEDS to get say, Aaron Gordon rather than nothing is just bizarre. As I've said, I'm not against getting value for anyone on the roster. But worse role-players who are "better fits" with the inconsistent and underperforming guards on the team. Just get whatever draft or prospect capital you can and more one. If the guards pick it up, sign the role-playing forwards next year (there will be a number on the market). If they continue to disappoint, you get a higher pick and a clearer roster to rebuild.

    Would I rather them make no moves? No. I think they should do something. They should consolidate the expirings on the roster into a legit rotation player. But I also think they are a better team than last season and will see the most improvement just by playing better. This is one of Pop's worst coaching jobs due in large part to missing the summer. If they can get on the same page, they'll make the playoffs. That's important to the team, especially more so than a middling role-player or even getting a high pick a year or so earlier than they're scheduled to.
    This is insane. DeRozan can more than likely net them a qualify, young veteran or a lottery protected 1st (either of which, but particularly the latter, can be used as a vehicle with their own pick potentially, to move up to the mid lottery), but they should not take that why?

    This notion that he helps them compete for the 7th-8th seed and that the myriad hypothetical trades that have been discussed ad nauseam wouldn't, is asinine.

    "Guys can walk". You say it like this is some irrelevant role player, instead of the clown they gave away a top 5 player and elite role player for.

    Gordon is nothing special, but players like him don't grow on trees. They don't often get to UFA status and if they do, it usually requires over paying them, especially in markets and situations like this one.

    They're significantly worse. This was a house of cards team to begin with. They couldn't afford age related declines, replacing their most impactful offensive player with a net negative and adding another non shooter in a prominent role.

    Pop "missing the summer" is irrelevant. The deployment has been predictably poor, but it comes down to personnel and their fit is the worst in the league, exacerbated by the lack of elite talent to overcome it.

  2. #77
    Veteran Floyd Pacquiao's Avatar
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    Honestly I just think it's a huge mistake to hold on to derozan. His game is bad for the team and he's mentally weak (crumbles in crunch time and when he doesn't get calls). I don't want Lonnie, White and Murray picking up any bad habits from this man. It's bad enough that they have to pass him the ball in crunch time or his ego will shatter.

  3. #78
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    Honestly I just think it's a huge mistake to hold on to derozan. His game is bad for the team and he's mentally weak (crumbles in crunch time and when he doesn't get calls). I don't want Lonnie, White and Murray picking up any bad habits from this man. It's bad enough that they have to pass him the ball in crunch time or his ego will shatter.
    Weird because I would think Lonnie, White, and Murry would be great if they could reach Derozan's ceiling. I'm not sure any of them will ever be near as good as Derozan.

  4. #79
    Veteran Floyd Pacquiao's Avatar
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    Weird because I would think Lonnie, White, and Murry would be great if they could reach Derozan's ceiling. I'm not sure any of them will ever be near as good as Derozan.
    I dont want them to be derozan, no one in their right mind should a want them to be another player who can't shoot 3s and plays bad defense who's weak mentally. That's not a winning player.

  5. #80
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    I dont want them to be derozan, no one in their right mind should a want them to be another player who can't shoot 3s and plays bad defense who's weak mentally. That's not a winning player.
    Despite his flaws, DD is far and away better offensively. The guy has immense skill and doesn't get benefit of calls going his way. You got people here that would trade for Beal, yet here he is stinking it up in the East. DD is who he is, an on the border allstar, who sometimes is the best player on the court but not consistently the best.

  6. #81
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    Go Mediocrity Go!

  7. #82
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    Despite his flaws, DD is far and away better offensively. The guy has immense skill and doesn't get benefit of calls going his way. You got people here that would trade for Beal, yet here he is stinking it up in the East. DD is who he is, an on the border allstar, who sometimes is the best player on the court but not consistently the best.

    Since when is 27 ppg/7dimes and a steal stinking it up? Id love beal for derozan for numerous reasons

  8. #83
    Veteran Floyd Pacquiao's Avatar
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    Despite his flaws, DD is far and away better offensively. The guy has immense skill and doesn't get benefit of calls going his way. You got people here that would trade for Beal, yet here he is stinking it up in the East. DD is who he is, an on the border allstar, who sometimes is the best player on the court but not consistently the best.
    he's got a good 1 on 1 low post game for a guard but that style of play is just hard to coexist with. His flaws out weigh his positives. Beal on the other hand would be great for this team. He's everything Forbes wishes he could be

  9. #84
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    listening to NBA radio earlier, Justin Termine went off on the Spurs. First for the horrible Kwahi trade (giving away Kwahi and Green) and not getting anything of value in return. Then for somewhat blowing this Bertans trade. Says the Spurs are getting away on reputation, but have had 2 horrible summers now.

  10. #85
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    Go Mediocrity Go!

  11. #86
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    listening to NBA radio earlier, Justin Termine went off on the Spurs. First for the horrible Kwahi trade (giving away Kwahi and Green) and not getting anything of value in return. Then for somewhat blowing this Bertans trade. Says the Spurs are getting away on reputation, but have had 2 horrible summers now.
    *3 summers in a row...Outbidding themselves with Patty at 12:01, and giving the washed up Spanish llama millions for barely playing after he rejected the team when he could actually contribute was bad too. They're still paying him, btw.

  12. #87
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    listening to NBA radio earlier, Justin Termine went off on the Spurs. First for the horrible Kwahi trade (giving away Kwahi and Green) and not getting anything of value in return. Then for somewhat blowing this Bertans trade. Says the Spurs are getting away on reputation, but have had 2 horrible summers now.
    thats such BS tho, the spurs have made some bad calls but to say the spurs didn’t get value for kawhi is bogus. Demar albeit frustrating af is a borderline all star, Jakob has shown he can be a really good defensive anchor, Keldon Johnson looks like he’ll be a good 3&D guy.

    Marcus Morris> Davis Bertans too, l really like Davis but the guy can’t defend

  13. #88
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    *3 summers in a row...Outbidding themselves with Patty at 12:01, and giving the washed up Spanish llama millions for barely playing after he rejected the team when he could actually contribute was bad too. They're still paying him, btw.
    Because I regard the LMA signing as the debacle that marked the beginning of the end, I honestly don’t remember a good summer for PATFO. Their last great moment was trading George Hill for Number 2, but I sure wish we had George now.

  14. #89
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    thats such BS tho, the spurs have made some bad calls but to say the spurs didn’t get value for kawhi is bogus. Demar albeit frustrating af is a borderline all star, Jakob has shown he can be a really good defensive anchor, Keldon Johnson looks like he’ll be a good 3&D guy.

    Marcus Morris> Davis Bertans too, l really like Davis but the guy can’t defend
    Leldon Johnson just hit his first few 3s in the G league in the last week or ten days.

  15. #90
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    Leldon Johnson just hit his first few 3s in the G league in the last week or ten days.
    Have you seen one Austin Spurs game this season? Keldon looks like a beast, results haven’t shown yet but he’s a good shooter just not great

  16. #91
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    Have you seen one Austin Spurs game this season? Keldon looks like a beast, results haven’t shown yet but he’s a good shooter just not great
    Keldon shows a lot - just not 3 point shooting... at least not yet.

  17. #92
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    This is insane.
    You and I both know it's not insane. Come on.

    DeRozan can more than likely net them a qualify, young veteran or a lottery protected 1st (either of which, but particularly the latter, can be used as a vehicle with their own pick potentially, to move up to the mid lottery), but they should not take that why?
    No one gives a about a guy like Gordon in comparison to a legit franchise player. DeRozan just turned 30 a few months ago. That Gordon is 24 means nothing. I get getting a guy in his first or second year and considering him a piece. But I'd want no part in getting borderline busts from other teams hoping they stop being bad. The team already has "young veterans" who should still be here after the tank is in full swing. A first is way better, but if you don't understand why the Spurs would be focused on anything besides the future, I don't know what to tell you.

    This notion that he helps them compete for the 7th-8th seed and that the myriad hypothetical trades that have been discussed ad nauseam wouldn't, is asinine.
    We both know he's better than all of those guys. He helps more than them. No reason to keep spinning off on hyperbole.

    "Guys can walk". You say it like this is some irrelevant role player, instead of the clown they gave away a top 5 player and elite role player for.
    They traded him for two or three years, not forever. Contracts are ephemeral. You don't have to "get something" for every guy who leaves. Guys can sign contracts, play them out and then go their separate ways without it being a big deal. Sure, I am not against moving DeRozan, especially if he wants to leave. But he's on the team for what he does now, not for what he would get in a trade later. I also don't see how Kawhi has anything to do with it at this point. He's gone. Let it go. No one here thought it was a good trade. There aren't extra points to be had for continuing to hammer the point home so long after the fact.

    They're significantly worse. This was a house of cards team to begin with. They couldn't afford age related declines, replacing their most impactful offensive player with a net negative and adding another non shooter in a prominent role.
    They're better. They're PLAYING worse for sure, but they are more talented and have much higher upside.

    Pop "missing the summer" is irrelevant.
    It's not. Coaching matters, and the Spurs more than most rosters needed really adroit direction, and they didn't get it. Before Murray got hurt, the Spurs had a specific plan to make their lack of spacing work. We don't know how it would have fared, but they needed to build on it this off-season and couldn't. They needed to work on their defensive rotations (especially now that Messina is gone), and they didn't. No one is denying the personnel problems, but they'd be solidly in the top-eight in the conference records right now with better coaching.

  18. #93
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I never said SA was always a bad franchise. But franchises is their position? Yeah, they do act rationally and like the players are assets.
    They really don't. Some are loyal to the end. Regardless, you're confusing a Boston-like situations where their core got old to a situation where the core is just disappointing. Usually trading guys for assets is a part of rebuilding, but it usually don't mean to trade guys ASAP to optimize value.

    They’ve been a bad FO for the past few years and that is all that matters going forward now. Not the past where they had franchise anchors that they no longer possess.
    They have made some bad or questionable moves like Gasol's renegotiation and using the MLE (somehow again) on Beli. They made some decent moves in the draft/UDFA, some cheap free agents and getting Gay to sign on. They aren't a bad front office now, and if they are, it's certainly not for not trading DeRozan yet. You keep straddling the line between them failing or turning it around. But if it's still up in the air, why would the FO tear it down? Do you have any reason to believe the offers are going to be worse in two months? I don't.

    I think SA *thought they were doing that, but that goes back to their evaluation of talent and their performance if they thought this team was legit enough to compete. I would say the fact that they didn’t get aggressive in the draft or free agency and offer up any youth or future picks is a great indicator they didn’t believe coupled with the fact they seem to have no interest in extending DeRozan.
    Competing and contending are different things. The Spurs likely don't see a championship window yet and aren't going to spend until/unless they do. That's different than them hoping to be solid playoff team until someone can come along and elevate them again. Now, I wish the Spurs had gotten aggressive, especially in the draft. I said as much constantly at the time and don't need to do so again. But it's easy to see why they wouldn't do so and still not trade their guys away.

    They did that stuff (Gay, LMA) to hedge and hope for the best; that is not a sign of their realistic plan nor is it something that should cement them in the face of what appears to be overwhelming evidence (bounced in first round, losing record, nothing added in off season and one of the worst most unsustainable defenses in the nba).
    Getting bounced in the first round is evidence of nothing.

    There is also a massive difference in Murray (still young with untapped potential) and DeRozan (career worth of data with no inkling of an extension on the horizon). You know this.
    No really. The Spurs extended Murray because he was willing to meet their price. DeRozan isn't (hence the two sides being far apart). But that doesn't mean the team has no interest in extending him. Ozzie Newsome had a motto "right player, right price" which meant that there was a limit that you'd be willing to go to sign guys and if it were over that limit, they walked, no matter who they were. With max salaries in the NBA, that motto isn't as necessary for stars. But when there's a guy like DeRozan where no one wants to max him, the Spurs can love him and not being willing to go high enough to get a deal done. I said at the time that it seemed like both sides wanted more data. We're getting that. Maybe they'll come to an agreement; maybe they won't. But that doesn't mean PATFO doesn't "believe" in him.

    Making the playoffs is valuable to a lot of teams; SA is one of them. However, that is an arbitrary measuring stick considering you might make the playoffs at .500 which is an unacceptable record for now and future plans for a team trying to win.
    Dude...

    Yes, making the playoffs is valuable to SA. Just because it's not the ultimate goal doesn't mean it can't be a goal for a year or even a stretch of years.

  19. #94
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Calling the team mediocre is generous frankly. They have been bad and have sucked with a scattered game by game exception. It doesn’t matter what you call it. Mediocre isn’t it. They have sucked.

    I do expect some improvement bc they have young guys who hopefully get better through the season and perhaps the coaching staff has learned enough about who plays well enough in what situations, but frankly they need more talent and some roster turnover. If they miss the playoffs at least I expect some changes, and at least a good draft pick. Why continue to suck, stand pat, and sign what will be an aging demar to an extension? Seriously, do people want to continue to stand pat with this crew?

  20. #95
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Since when is 27 ppg/7dimes and a steal stinking it up? Id love beal for derozan for numerous reasons
    I mean the team. Beal playing SF would be a disaster. DD is playing out of position as he is, but he will do immensely better than Beal would.

  21. #96
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    he's got a good 1 on 1 low post game for a guard but that style of play is just hard to coexist with. His flaws out weigh his positives. Beal on the other hand would be great for this team. He's everything Forbes wishes he could be
    Except he isn't a SF, and could even play SF. Heck, Beal has his faults too. Grass isn't always greener.

  22. #97
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    Calling the team mediocre is generous frankly. They have been bad and have sucked with a scattered game by game exception. It doesn’t matter what you call it. Mediocre isn’t it. They have sucked.

    I do expect some improvement bc they have young guys who hopefully get better through the season and perhaps the coaching staff has learned enough about who plays well enough in what situations, but frankly they need more talent and some roster turnover. If they miss the playoffs at least I expect some changes, and at least a good draft pick. Why continue to suck, stand pat, and sign what will be an aging demar to an extension? Seriously, do people want to continue to stand pat with this crew?
    Most people do not want to stand pat. Evidently some of the players don’t want to as well. You are going to see a huge depression cloud hit this franchise, it’s players, and fans if no moves are made. All glimmer of hope or little excitement some fans might have will be completely gone. Potential dark times ahead. The spurs will just be a blah team that no one cares about...not the fans or the media. Basically the pistons. No one cares about them, they aren’t good, rarely make headlines, never make the playoffs, and can’t sign big name free agents.

    Sounds crazy but the next 7-10yrs of spurs relevance depends on them making mid-season moves this season. It will be to late if they sign DDR and keep LMA

  23. #98
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    FYI


  24. #99
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    FYI

    What's happened there is that they wanted the guarantee date to be in the next calendar year.

  25. #100
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Most people do not want to stand pat. ...
    Truth.

    Sounds crazy but the next 7-10yrs of spurs relevance depends on them making mid-season moves this season. It will be to late if they sign DDR and keep LMA
    This midseason is not that important, for the long term. The crucial time will be the spring of '21. That's when most of the existing commitments expire. With no major changes, the Spurs could go into the free agent market with $90 million, or more, to spend on talent (depending on where the NBA sets the salary cap.). As it currently shapes up, only Atlanta and Charlotte will have more money available than the Spurs, at that time.

    For now, the question ought to be addressed, given their contracts, and their level of performance, who on the Spurs roster is tradeable? I'm not being sarcastic. Serious question.

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