It’s “Unlikely” that Spurs Pull the Plug on this Roster

[sasaint]

Exactly. And then there are people that say he should just move to the front office. no! Everyone is too scared of him. He needs to be moved as far away from this team as possible.

Problem is the extreme improbability of turning over the entire fruit basket mid-season - or getting the regime you want going forward. So you settle for an interim regime and all that entails. Basically we are screwed.

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

Let's hope last night was the beginning of another long losing streak. Something needs to happen to get the Spurs to move forward. Pop needs to shift minutes to the young guys, letting them play through mistakes. He can still hold them accountable without just sending them to the bench, especially if they are giving max effort.

I don't buy the argument of the Spurs need to be compe ive to stay profitable from a business standpoint. The crowd sizes are already down, and the team as currently constructed isn't getting out of the 1st round if they are even in play off contention come March. A young fun team playing up tempo basketball (White - Murray - Walker - Lyles - Poeltl for example) would be more entertaining than current lineups.

I have gone back & forth on pulling the plug or thinking maybe things could somewhat come together. I just think it's time to move forward. I not for trading away the vets for nothing, but if you can acquire picks or combination of pick/players that fit better with the Spurs current youth - do it. I just don't see a compelling reason not to.

[Sugus]

Imagine how toxic this can get when you have Murray, White and Lonnie watching Beli/Forbes/Mills get minutes while losing. They aren’t in a winning environment and they aren’t behind good players.

This is my biggest takeaway. How good the young players in our core look the little time they're allowed to showcase themselves (DJM at the start of the season, Lonnie at the Rockets game, etc) barraged by hundreds of minutes of them sitting on the bench behind vets and lesser players being abused and torched every night. I don't think we can make any kind of assessment on DJ-White-Lonnie's play this season as they are playing in quite literally the worst possible environment to develop and flourish - getting little to no PT, and when they do, they have to fix up mistakes from and force feed the god awful vets running the team and locker room. Just a show from top to bottom.

Hopefully we get a lottery pick this upcoming draft and whoever he is, has the balls to be a true leader and set things in their place, aided by some trades. But I don't have a lot of confidence for that right now.

[sasaint]

This is my biggest takeaway. How good the young players in our core look the little time they're allowed to showcase themselves (DJM at the start of the season, Lonnie at the Rockets game, etc) barraged by hundreds of minutes of them sitting on the bench behind vets and lesser players being abused and torched every night. I don't think we can make any kind of assessment on DJ-White-Lonnie's play this season as they are playing in quite literally the worst possible environment to develop and flourish - getting little to no PT, and when they do, they have to fix up mistakes from and force feed the god awful vets running the team and locker room. Just a show from top to bottom.

Hopefully we get a lottery pick this upcoming draft and whoever he is, has the balls to be a true leader and set things in their place, aided by some trades. But I don't have a lot of confidence for that right now.

Haha. A Draft Pick ain't gonna usurp the throne from Pop.

[K...]

Haha. A Draft Pick ain't gonna usurp the throne from Pop.

Limelo ball would be something in that direction

[sananspursfan21]

After beating the Rockets and even squeezing past the Kings, I thought this could be decent news. But now, I just look at this thread in disgust. Trade LMA STAT!!!!

[Chomag]

There is nobody in this draft that can save this franchise. If Spurs go lottery we are going to be there for a few years.

[cd98]

Spurs aren't going to rebuild through free agency. They are a small market. You can only rely on developing talent for so long until you need to have some luck in the lottery. Maybe this year there isn't a superstar, but there will be players that we can draft that could be starters and now is the time to start stockpiling assets. If the team is only good enough to get the 8th seed maybe, and then get destroyed in the first round, better to try to rebuild, especially because making the playoffs is no sure thing.

[DPG21920]

timvp - not what you think SA will do, but what the should do: is there any result, payoffs included that realistically should change SAs mind about keeping Derozan and/or LMA at this point?

[timvp]

timvp - not what you think SA will do, but what the should do: is there any result, payoffs included that realistically should change SAs mind about keeping Derozan and/or LMA at this point?

Come again?

[baseline bum]

There is nobody in this draft that can save this franchise. If Spurs go lottery we are going to be there for a few years.

If?

[DPG21920]

Come again?

Meaning is there any result (making the playoffs this year somehow, Derozan hitting 3s for the rest of the year, etc) that in your mind should change PATFO mind about extending Derozan or not & building around him and LMA for the next 3-5 years

[SAGirl]

Imagine how toxic this can get when you have Murray, White and Lonnie watching Beli/Forbes/Mills get minutes while losing. They aren’t in a winning environment and they aren’t behind good players.

So far they have kept quiet and have not voiced criticism that I know of (granted I am a lot more casual than I used to be) but these guys are not stupid. Keeping things to themselves is a great show of character and of being a profesional, but them keeping mum about this doesn't mean that there are no hard feelings.

[SAGirl]

Yeah the Celtics are falling in the standings the pick they own is the Memphis pick which I believe is protected in top 6 picks in 2020 but not protected in 2021. I think trading them LMA would be a perfect fit to push them into real contenders. The only issue is who do we take from them to match salaries?

They are not trading you the Memphis pick for LMA.
They might trade you their own pick, and that is just "might"

[Floyd Pacquiao]

How about derozan for Jae Crowder

[RC_Drunkford]

Meaning is there any result (making the playoffs this year somehow, Derozan hitting 3s for the rest of the year, etc) that in your mind should change PATFO mind about extending Derozan or not & building around him and LMA for the next 3-5 years

3-5 years??? Oh lawd have mercy. No Spurs fan wants to see that

[RC_Drunkford]

Imagine how toxic this can get when you have Murray, White and Lonnie watching Beli/Forbes/Mills get minutes while losing. They aren’t in a winning environment and they aren’t behind good players.

"Those team dinners will help them bond, understand and love each other. It's more important that basketball"

[gambit1990]

demar is who he is. cp3 can turn la into a different player (a happy, motivated one). and if the spurs got cp3, it guarantees that okc doesn't get a PO spot over the spurs.

if the spurs really wanna blow it up, they could move cp3 and la in a deal together next season.

cp3, diallo, noel

[timvp]

Meaning is there any result (making the playoffs this year somehow, Derozan hitting 3s for the rest of the year, etc) that in your mind should change PATFO mind about extending Derozan or not & building around him and LMA for the next 3-5 years

No DeRozan extension should be on the table. I wouldn't even be in favor of a two-year, $40 million or something like that. DeRozan looks slower, his moping is infectious and it's just not possible to build around him, especially in today's NBA. He's not completely worthless but you don't extend a player who isn't a positive game-changer now who is actively slowing down as we type.

Aldridge? I mean, if he wants to sign a late-stage Duncan contract that is like $5 million per year, that'd be fine. He's not worth big money any more.

Should the Spurs decline that Jan. 1 option? It doesn't look like that's really an option, tbh. It's a fair enough deal in a vacuum. It might give the Spurs more incentive to trade him before that date, though. In theory, his value goes down a little bit after Jan. 1.

[DPG21920]

No DeRozan extension should be on the table. I wouldn't even be in favor of a two-year, $40 million or something like that. DeRozan looks slower, his moping is infectious and it's just not possible to build around him, especially in today's NBA. He's not completely worthless but you don't extend a player who isn't a positive game-changer now who is actively slowing down as we type.

Aldridge? I mean, if he wants to sign a late-stage Duncan contract that is like $5 million per year, that'd be fine. He's not worth big money any more.

Should the Spurs decline that Jan. 1 option? It doesn't look like that's really an option, tbh. It's a fair enough deal in a vacuum. It might give the Spurs more incentive to trade him before that date, though. In theory, his value goes down a little bit after Jan. 1.

I agree. Now having established that is there any reason not to trade Derozan and/or LMA assuming they have any positive value?

[timvp]

I agree. Now having established that

Ah, hitting dat timvp with the ol' 1-2 hezi step-back

is there any reason not to trade Derozan and/or LMA assuming they have any positive value?

If (or when) the playoffs become unattainable, I'd be on the side of trading one or both -- starting with DeRozan, if we're being honest.

I think DeRozan has value if the Spurs are making a push for the playoffs. He also has enough value that you don't trade him for nothing or pay to trade him away. (Ironically, judging by the fact that he's been a net negative 17 out of 18 times or whatever the number is right now, he also has value as part of a tank -- but I'll ignore that.)

But, yeah, I'm totally on board with trading them for positive value. You might as well keep them if all you can get is a second rounder or something like that but if you can get positive assets, I wouldn't protest.

The only thing I would caution would be to fall into a sunk cost fallacy. "We traded Nephew for DeRozan so we have to trade DeRozan before letting him walk" is bad logic. I'm okay with letting him walk in principle. That doesn't bother me at all if the alternatives aren't in San Antonio's favor.

[DPG21920]

Ah, hitting dat timvp with the ol' 1-2 hezi step-back



If (or when) the playoffs become unattainable, I'd be on the side of trading one or both -- starting with DeRozan, if we're being honest.

I think DeRozan has value if the Spurs are making a push for the playoffs. He also has enough value that you don't trade him for nothing or pay to trade him away. (Ironically, judging by the fact that he's been a net negative 17 out of 18 times or whatever the number is right now, he also has value as part of a tank -- but I'll ignore that.)

But, yeah, I'm totally on board with trading them for positive value. You might as well keep them if all you can get is a second rounder or something like that but if you can get positive assets, I wouldn't protest.

The only thing I would caution would be to fall into a sunk cost fallacy. "We traded Nephew for DeRozan so we have to trade DeRozan before letting him walk" is bad logic. I'm okay with letting him walk in principle. That doesn't bother me at all if the alternatives aren't in San Antonio's favor.

Finds DPG in the corner....BANG!.

Gotcha. Where I seem to disagree is the playoffs part. If you know that he’s not someone you want around at any price, then why would making the playoffs with him only to lose him be worth not trading him?

Especially in the West this year where it’s not hard to make the playoffs even with a medicore to bad team. That’s the bar?

For sure you don’t trade him if you can’t get anything; but my assumption is he would return something positive like a first round pick and/or a swing at a decent young player.

If you knew you could trade DeRozan for a first round pick, would you trade him no matter what? Playoffs or otherwise?

[JeffDuncan]

Yeah the Celtics are falling in the standings the pick they own is the Memphis pick which I believe is protected in top 6 picks in 2020 but not protected in 2021. I think trading them LMA would be a perfect fit to push them into real contenders. The only issue is who do we take from them to match salaries?

The Celtics are hard to trade with because their salary situation is so top heavy. They've got Kemba and Hayward maxed, at $32 million each. Below that, there's a dropoff like the edge of a cliff, down to Marcus Smart at $12.5 million. A $20 million gap with nobody there.

Looking at their lineup, yes, they could probably use LMA. The Celtics started Theis against Philly, a game Philly won. Theis is paid $5 million, tho, and LMA's contract is $26 million (with a 15% trade kicker, btw.) Shoehorning LMA into that Celtics roster would take a major feat of prestidigitation..

[GAustex]

prestidigitation
An excellent word

[gambit1990]

let demar walk? fvck that

you trade him and you trade him soon. even if the spurs are okay with letting demar walk... what if he opts in? then the spurs are in the same place they're in now

get it over with and nip it in the bud.