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  1. #26
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    So you do you quantify if stealing signs helped or didn’t in the WS?
    You can’t quantify it and that’s never how things like this work. You also can’t quantify if the Patriots needed Spygate to win against the Jets in 2007, but I said I’d be fine with vacating that win and making it an L.

  2. #27
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Though stealing signs is legal and using electronics isn’t, its hard to measure what affect it had. Houston went 2-1 on the road.

  3. #28
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    If the entire act of stealing signs was illegal then sure. The method of it was the problem. Hard to vacate that way. Especially when it’s a league wide issue.

  4. #29
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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  5. #30
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    He should probably be the last one to talk since he got lit up in game 7

  6. #31
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    Let’s not feel sorry for the Dodgers now. They still choked on a hard black both years and the alleged cheating took place only during the RS.

  7. #32
    Ray Lewis Killed A Guy monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Yeah. Sitting with 2 World Series losses down to the last strike is much better

    Iíll take the chip*.
    fixed

  8. #33
    Ray Lewis Killed A Guy monosylab1k's Avatar
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    If the entire act of stealing signs was illegal then sure. The method of it was the problem. Hard to vacate that way. Especially when itís a league wide issue.
    everybody was quick to pretend that the Patriots were the only team capable of cheating back then, but now that itís your ox being gored suddenly itís ďeverybody does it lulzĒ

  9. #34
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    everybody was quick to pretend that the Patriots were the only team capable of cheating back then, but now that itís your ox being gored suddenly itís ďeverybody does it lulzĒ
    Yet at the time they were caught I didnít call for their les to be vacated.

  10. #35
    十万二千一百七人が死んでいる baseline bum's Avatar
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    everybody was quick to pretend that the Patriots were the only team capable of cheating back then, but now that it’s your ox being gored suddenly it’s “everybody does it lulz”

  11. #36
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Btw, Baseball doesnít exactly have a clean history either considering a whole decade called the steroid era. The 2000 Yankees were juiced to high . MLB looked left on that for a long time until they couldnít. That was literally an era where everyone was doing it. now, many players wear gloves in the field that are outside the legal dimensions. Baseball looks left on that. Everyone looks for an advantage and thatís not debatable. How far they go with it is a different story.

    Rob Manfred said this was only relegated to the Astros, until it wasnít. He wasnít expecting Boston to be implicated. Now you have rumors involving the Yankees, Dodgers and Diamondbacks all doing the same thing. Itís a league wide issue. It doesnít stop with those 5 teams.

  12. #37
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    everybody was quick to pretend that the Patriots were the only team capable of cheating back then, but now that itís your ox being gored suddenly itís ďeverybody does it lulzĒ
    Also a question for you. When the Patriots were first caught, were any other teams caught at the same time as them? Or alleged to have also been using cameras? If so you can point it out. Itís not the Astros getting caught. Itís Manfred prematurely saying it was only the Astros, and not wanting to investigate all the teams, when Boston literally is caught weeks later, the Yankees are found to have illegally used their ďreplay roomsĒ along with the Dodgers, and the Yankees alleged to have been zooming their cameras to steal signs as well. Now that the Red Sox are caught, Manfred is not exactly eager to investigate any other teams. No problem with the punishment. But not vacating les when other teams have been outed.
    Last edited by djohn2oo8; 01-14-2020 at 01:35 AM.

  13. #38
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Scapegoat fire. Astros have no dignity

  14. #39
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    Scapegoat fire. Astros have no dignity
    Oh really? Firing them is what makes them have no dignity, not the fact they got caught cheating?

  15. #40
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Letís not feel sorry for the Dodgers now. They still choked on a hard black both years and the alleged cheating took place only during the RS.
    djohn2oo8 if itís true the cheating only took place during the RS then ignore what I said, I thought it specifically took place throughout the playoffs
    Last edited by Will Hunting; 01-14-2020 at 07:30 AM.

  16. #41
    Ray Lewis Killed A Guy monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Also a question for you. When the Patriots were first caught, were any other teams caught at the same time as them? Or alleged to have also been using cameras? If so you can point it out. Itís not the Astros getting caught. Itís Manfred prematurely saying it was only the Astros, and not wanting to investigate all the teams, when Boston literally is caught weeks later, the Yankees are found to have illegally used their ďreplay roomsĒ along with the Dodgers, and the Yankees alleged to have been zooming their cameras to steal signs as well. Now that the Red Sox are caught, Manfred is not exactly eager to investigate any other teams. No problem with the punishment. But not vacating les when other teams have been outed.
    Iíll tell you exactly what everyone said during Spygate - YOU got caught. YOU. We didnít get caught therefore we didnít cheat. YOU got caught.

    Rangers > Cheatros*

  17. #42
    Ray Lewis Killed A Guy monosylab1k's Avatar
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    djohn2oo8 if it’s true the cheating only took place during the RS then ignore what I said, I thought it specifically took place throughout the playoffs
    People want to take away Pats rings for a Week One infraction, so I say for tat.

  18. #43
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    People want to take away Pats rings for a Week One infraction, so I say for tat.
    Yeah I don’t disagree but this strikes me as a similar re ed situation where everyone is doing it but they’re only going after the team(s) that win.

  19. #44
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    djohn2oo8 if it’s true the cheating only took place during the RS then ignore what I said, I thought it specifically took place throughout the playoffs
    Tbh, I don’t know where the I read this. Or if I saw a YouTube video interview where the dude said the system they used was limited to only home games and regular season because in the post season the MLB itself puts their own cameras inside the club houses so they couldn’t use the TV they had set up or something like that.

    Now having read a few articles on the punishment, the report does in fact say they used it in the post season as well.

  20. #45
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    The 2018 playoffs were the first postseason in which MLB had dedicated measures in place to prevent electronic sign stealing. The league then distributed new rules to all teams in the spring of 2019, outlining them in a six-page do ent and accompanying FAQ.

    Among those rules: No camera installed beyond the outfield fence and between the foul poles may capture an image of the catcherís signs. Any camera in that area needs advance approval from the commissionerís office. The league has also set rules about the placement and use of monitors and TVs, mandating that virtually every screen be on an eight-second delay. In addition, MLB placed league employees at the park to attempt to monitor what teams are doing.
    https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019...ague-baseball/

    What's different about the Astros and the Red Sox?

    Based on what's been reported, the allegations about the Red Sox are on a somewhat different level than those regarding the Astros. While the Red Sox supposedly used video to decode opponents' sign sequences and passed the information along to their players, they did not go the additional step of using some means of communicating this knowledge -- such as the Astros' infamous trash-can banging -- to players at the plate from the dugout in most situations. They needed to get a runner to second base to see the sequences and signal them to whoever was at the plate.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.esp...3fplatform=amp

    That makes me feel slightly better. (Not really)

  21. #46
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    The trash can banging is my favorite part

    Imo the longer the MLB takes the harsher Cora’s punishment will be, they’ve probably got special plans for him

  22. #47
    Celibacy for life Mark Celibate's Avatar
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    Canít vacate something that you canít quantify the effect of what happened.
    BS, it's outright cheating why can't you vacate it? It would be the same thing as a university playing an ineligible basketball player in the NCAA tournament and then winning the championship. Sure, you can't "quantify" how they did but you don't just go "hurr durr, oh well...we'll never know!" Same thing with the whole Reggie Bush/USC scandal

    The tricky part is where do you draw the line (i.e. do we strip them of the WS le, the division le, all their wins, etc) but no way should they be remembered as champions.

  23. #48
    5 Bill_Brasky's Avatar
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    I feel bad for AJ Hinch. If he was really uncomfortable with it, he was in a terrible position. He could either rat out his own players, lose their trust forever, and probably never be able to manage again, or he could have had this happen. Him busting up their little moniter was him trying to tell then to knock it off, but they didn't listen.

  24. #49
    Ray Lewis Killed A Guy monosylab1k's Avatar
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    BS, it's outright cheating why can't you vacate it? It would be the same thing as a university playing an ineligible basketball player in the NCAA tournament and then winning the championship. Sure, you can't "quantify" how they did but you don't just go "hurr durr, oh well...we'll never know!" Same thing with the whole Reggie Bush/USC scandal

    The tricky part is where do you draw the line (i.e. do we strip them of the WS le, the division le, all their wins, etc) but no way should they be remembered as champions.
    The Ting brothers, cheaters and quitters I saaaaaiiiiiiiiddddddd

  25. #50
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    BS, it's outright cheating why can't you vacate it? It would be the same thing as a university playing an ineligible basketball player in the NCAA tournament and then winning the championship. Sure, you can't "quantify" how they did but you don't just go "hurr durr, oh well...we'll never know!" Same thing with the whole Reggie Bush/USC scandal

    The tricky part is where do you draw the line (i.e. do we strip them of the WS le, the division le, all their wins, etc) but no way should they be remembered as champions.
    The entire 2000 Yankees team was juiced. Should they give theirs back as well?

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