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  1. #51
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Iíll tell you exactly what everyone said during Spygate - YOU got caught. YOU. We didnít get caught therefore we didnít cheat. YOU got caught.

    Rangers > Cheatros*
    you are missing the point. I said Iím fine with the punishment, my problem is with Manfred saying this was only the Astros when he also was investigating the Red Sox and had info at the same time that they were also caught.

  2. #52
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Iíll take the * though. No problem. Because the rangers are still smokers who still lost 2 World Series being one strike away. You were almost there. And now youíre back to being little brother.

  3. #53
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    I’ll take the * though. No problem. Because the rangers are still smokers who still lost 2 World Series being one strike away. You were almost there. And now you’re back to being little brother.
    Tbh, the Rangers' losses aren't nearly as embarrassing as losing to the Nationals with cheat codes enabled.

  4. #54
    🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷 🇰🇷 monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Rangers are still ahead in Silver Boots, I’ll take that over a tainted le any day!

  5. #55
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Tbh, the Rangers' losses aren't nearly as embarrassing as losing to the Nationals with cheat codes enabled.
    The report said 2019 there was no illegal activity.

  6. #56
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Rangers are still ahead in Silver Boots, I’ll take that over a tainted le any day!
    Remember when you call someone else a cheater remember your history
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123509345896428879

  7. #57
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    The whole ďyou canít vacate it if you canít quantify it argumentĒ makes no sense. If you cheat on a test in college, you get a zero on it and even potentially harsher punishment. The professor doesnít say ďwell I ran the analytics on it and you would have gotten a B- without cheating so thatís what Iíll give you.Ē

    That being said I take back what I said, I donít think this is bad enough to vacate.

    What I donít get is how players avoid punishment completely if they were the ones orchestrating it.

  8. #58
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    The “everyone was doing it!” Argument also matters imo when punishment is being determined even though most people usually react to it with sanctimonious drivel about how “ that doesn’t make it right

    I.e. the 2001 Diamondbacks were clearly juiced to the hilt ( skinny ass Luis Gonzalez hitting 57 HRs) and everyone knows it, but they were playing in a league where Barry Bonds hit 70+ home runs. If they were juicing and the rest of the league was steroid-free in 2001 their World Series probably should be vacated, but because everyone was doing it no one views their World Series as remotely illegitimate.

  9. #59
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Also Mono, I’m you don’t remember back in the day about the Rumors of Arlington stadium
    https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2147225

  10. #60
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    The whole ďyou canít vacate it if you canít quantify it argumentĒ makes no sense. If you cheat on a test in college, you get a zero on it and even potentially harsher punishment. The professor doesnít say ďwell I ran the analytics on it and you would have gotten a B- without cheating so thatís what Iíll give you.Ē

    That being said I take back what I said, I donít think this is bad enough to vacate.

    What I donít get is how players avoid punishment completely if they were the ones orchestrating it.
    I think the way they avoid punishment is, the MLB needs them to cooperate. Having first hand accounts makes the case stronger, itís hard to know what players knew if they donít talk. So in order for them to talk they want assurances that they wonít be punished. And players arenít going to fess up to orchestrating it

  11. #61
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    I think the way they avoid punishment is, the MLB needs them to cooperate. Having first hand accounts makes the case stronger, itís hard to know what players knew if they donít talk. So in order for them to talk they want assurances that they wonít be punished. And players arenít going to fess up to orchestrating it
    Yeah that makes sense but isnít the goal supposed to be to hold the responsible parties accountable? The goal shouldnít be to just identify a few scapegoats to fry with zero consideration for who really acted wrongfully.

  12. #62
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Yeah that makes sense but isn’t the goal supposed to be to hold the responsible parties accountable? The goal shouldn’t be to just identify a few scapegoats to fry with zero consideration for who really acted wrongfully.
    It’s easier for the MLB to have a few scapegoats then to admit and identify that it’s a players problem. These scapegoats will have to be coaches and or front office staff because it’s easier to get rid of bad PR if they are fired. If the players across the league are doing it then that’s a culture problem and harder for baseball to shed itself of. That’s what it seems like.

  13. #63
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Predictably, nobody in the game is willing to publicly finger those who were cheating or those whom they believe might be cheating. But given assurances of anonymity, several league sources indicate the Astros, Dodgers, Red Sox, New York Yankees and Arizona Diamondbacks have been especially adept with technological surveillance. One source mentions the Cubs and Washington Nationals dabble a bit "but not as much as others." Another source says the Indians, while still another notes the Toronto Blue Jays and Texas Rangers once were suspected as well.

    - Bleacher Report


    its just interesting if Manfred really wants to clean this all up he needs to investigate beyond two teams.

  14. #64
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    MLB should fully commit to the WWE route and just be like the blitz games from the PS2 era. I’d be fine with that.

    MLB is a tainted sport to begin with. They allowed steroids into this sport. That was the end.

  15. #65
    🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷 🇰🇷 monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Also Mono, I’m you don’t remember back in the day about the Rumors of Arlington stadium
    https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2147225
    “rumors” versus “caught red-handed in the biggest baseball scandal since the Black Sox”

    Rangers > Cheatstros

  16. #66
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    The severity of the punishments is obviously not just about being punitive but also preventative. I’m guessing Cora will be suspended indefinitely if not all out Pete Rosed. It’s not about being fair or unfair to the Astros and finding all guilty parties across baseball. It’s about making sure that this stops now going forward. If the penalty is loss of employment for managers and executives, it’s not just a token fine, like when a multi million dollar NBA player gets fined $25,000 for a flagrant foul. That’s like 100 bucks for most people. The penalty is real and tangible and severe. If your ass gets caught, it’s not just a couple of stacks and a couple of picks. It’s your job. That’s preventative.

    Sure, punish everyone else who did it. But as a precedent, as an example, Astros are first in line to the gangbang. First kid to get caught gets the worst whooping.

    As for players getting punished, I believe they should be too, but they’re the product. Players are the product. Other than fines, I don’t think MLB has n ideal punishment to levy n this case. Say a factory worker in an m&m factory taints the candy and a bunch of bad m&ms get released and sold. You punish the factor worker, not the candy. You don’t make the m&ms smaller or put fewer in each bag. You don’t punish the product if you can avoid it, and especially in a case like this where pretty much the whole team was involved. You going to suspend all the Astros hitters for a year? Easy if it’s one individual player. Not so much when you’re talking about a dozen major league hitters all on the same team.

  17. #67
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    ďrumorsĒ versus ďcaught red-handed in the biggest baseball scandal since the Black SoxĒ

    Rangers > Cheatstros
    Stealing signs and employing PED users. Continuously missing the playoffs. 2 years of success. Ranger lore. Since we know it isnít les.

  18. #68
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Wasting Prime roided up A-Rod. at least the Yanks won with him

  19. #69
    Believe. LeGiannis's Avatar
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    DJ*hn2008 going down with the ship.

  20. #70
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    DJ*hn2008 going down with the ship.
    Would I trade a chip for winning the right way in a game that has been tarred by cheating? no

  21. #71
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Baseball is the last sport to get sanctimonious about

  22. #72
    Believe. LeGiannis's Avatar
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    Would I trade a chip for winning the right way in a game that has been tarred by cheating? no
    If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin tbh.....

  23. #73
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    Being sanctimonious doesn't mean there still doesn't need to be a line drawn at some point. Whether it's sanctimony or disingenuous self righteousness, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

    Leniency and wiggle room will always draw criticism. Like the NBA travel. What's a walk? How much do players get away with? But at some point, an inbound to Russell Westbrook as he cradles the ball tucked warmly in his arm and starts walking up the court, two steps, three, four, five... it has to be a travel. At some point you draw the line

    And pretentious sanctimony doesn't make it wrong.

  24. #74
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Being sanctimonious doesn't mean there still doesn't need to be a line drawn at some point. Whether it's sanctimony or disingenuous self righteousness, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

    Leniency and wiggle room will always draw criticism. Like the NBA travel. What's a walk? How much do players get away with? But at some point, an inbound to Russell Westbrook as he cradles the ball tucked warmly in his arm and starts walking up the court, two steps, three, four, five... it has to be a travel. At some point you draw the line

    And pretentious sanctimony doesn't make it wrong.
    in this case itís how you go about drawing the line. Is the commissioner going to investigate all of these allegations against the alleged teams?

  25. #75
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    In Houston's case, none of that matters at all. Of course allegations should be thoroughly checked out and guilty parties penalized accordingly. But none of that changes anything for Houston. It certainly doesn't absolve them from anything. Their guilt doesn't change with an increased number of violators.

    How many people speed on the freeway? Only a fraction get pulled over and ticketed. If you get pulled over for speeding, cry that the officer should only give you a speeding ticket if he pulls over every other car that was speeding and tickets them too. See how that works out.

    You just want your misery shared. That has nothing to do with the idea that a line must be and has been drawn.

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