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  1. #1
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Thanks for the write up. I disagree. There is absolutely zero pride in making the playoffs with a losing record. Not with a team that features 2 max players. Also, the litmus test should be: are you willing to invest in this team to actually give yourself a chance to compete.

    At this point, that answer appears to be a resounding “NO” so that should tell you which direction they should take things.

  3. #3
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Thanks for the write up. I disagree. There is absolutely zero pride in making the playoffs with a losing record. Not with a team that features 2 max players. Also, the litmus test should be: are you willing to invest in this team to actually give yourself a chance to compete.

    At this point, that answer appears to be a resounding “NO” so that should tell you which direction they should take things.
    Basically my view is that the Spurs missing the playoffs vs making the playoffs comes down to the incentive. The incentive being draft picks. Missing would land the Spurs around the 14th pick while making it would land the Spurs 15-17. That difference isn't worth missing the playoffs for the first time in 23 years.

    Either way, the Spurs could be a lot better next season by building on Aldridge's shooting, DeMar playing like he is, Murray continuing to improve his shot and replacing Forbes with Walker.

    Spurs don't necessarily need to invest in this team, more like ride it out while maximizing it's ceiling. If DDR opts in, then Gay, DDR, LMA, and Mills will become free agents after next season. The Spurs can retool then.

  4. #4
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    Basically my view is that the Spurs missing the playoffs vs making the playoffs comes down to the incentive. The incentive being draft picks. Missing would land the Spurs around the 14th pick while making it would land the Spurs 15-17. That difference isn't worth missing the playoffs for the first time in 23 years.

    Either way, the Spurs could be a lot better next season by building on Aldridge's shooting, DeMar playing like he is, Murray continuing to improve his shot and replacing Forbes with Walker.

    Spurs don't necessarily need to invest in this team, more like ride it out while maximizing it's ceiling. If DDR opts in, then Gay, DDR, LMA, and Mills will become free agents after next season. The Spurs can retool then.
    This was clearly their plan from the jump and it hasn't changed. It obviously hinges on DeRozan's willingness to opt in because the (pseudo) compe iveness part is covered through at least this season considering how weak the middle - bottom of the West is.

    If he doesn't play along, they'll have to trade him after this season, which could facilitate Aldridge and Gay wanting out too.

  5. #5
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    Spurs don't necessarily need to invest in this team, more like ride it out while maximizing it's ceiling. If DDR opts in, then Gay, DDR, LMA, and Mills will become free agents after next season. The Spurs can retool then.

    Doesnt matter what we want but pop is riding this core until their contracts expire. Although i dont see this team improving much next season unless white/walker or murray take a huge jump

  6. #6
    Master Jedi Obi Juan Kenobi's Avatar
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    Blow it all up and play the youngsters...

  7. #7
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    Doesnt matter what we want but pop is riding this core until their contracts expire. Although i dont see this team improving much next season unless white/walker or murray take a huge jump
    Why do I envision the Spurs resigning all of those guys instead of retooling?

  8. #8
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    Why do I envision the Spurs resigning all of those guys instead of retooling?
    because you know mills will stay as long as pop is alive. As for a 32&36 y/o derozan and Aldridge?Sours wil probably find a way to keep the ol vets too

  9. #9
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    So we all agree that unless something changes drastically, the Spurs aren't going to challenge for the LOB, or even the WCF this season... right? So the biggest consideration should be the long term success of the team. What is the best/quickest way for the Spurs to get back into contention?

    So the only real questions to me are:
    1. Would making the playoffs and a first round exit really do anything to further the Spurs' long term success. I know people like to talk about "winning culture", etc. but the real answer to that is "no".
    2. While there isn't much difference between, say, the 13th pick and the 16th pick, if the Spurs pulled the plug on the first round exit, could they do significantly better than the 16th pick?
    3. Since next year's draft doesn't look deep, could the Spurs do anything through a trade that would secure a better pick in 20/21?

    You say to trust the Spurs' FO to get the best pick available at the 15,16,17 pick. I don't have a problem with that. But what it leaves out is that the best player available at 7 or 8 would almost certainly be better. Very possibly a lot better. , the best player available at the 30th pick might be better than everyone else on the board, but that doesn't count for much.

    One thing is for certain. Half measures are the worst possible thing. If they're going with a "win now" strategy, they need to commit to it. If they're going to use the draft and trades to build for the near future, they need to commit to that. I think there are a lot of fans in love with the idea of holding the playoff record. I get it, that's what fans do. I really, really hope that PATFO aren't thinking that way, because it won't do a thing to bring more talent, or wins, to next year's team. A #8 pick might.

  10. #10
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Either way, the Spurs could be a lot better next season by building on Aldridge's shooting, DeMar playing like he is, Murray continuing to improve his shot and replacing Forbes with Walker.

    See, to me that's just not the right question. The real question is whether they could have all those things AND a 7-8 pick, and be better still.

  11. #11
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    They can try but they also have to hope the Thunder and Grizzlies don’t continue trending upward like they have. That’s basically the only two teams in their way and I don’t see them getting higher than the 7th seed again. Currently this team isn’t in good position to make the playoffs or tank, just a 9th seed ceiling. They have to put on a solid win streak.

  12. #12
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Spurs trying to make playoffs equals Pop resigning.

  13. #13
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    See, to me that's just not the right question. The real question is whether they could have all those things AND a 7-8 pick, and be better still.

    Maybe that's not the right question either. How about, "Is pop actually trying to make the playoffs?"

  14. #14
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    Blow it all up and play the youngsters...
    +1

  15. #15
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    You left out the money. That's a serious omission where a business is concerned.

    Take the average Spurs ticket price (which would be higher for the playoffs) multiply it by 18,000 and then by 2 (for a minimum of 2 home games,) and see what you get. Add concession and souvenir sales. Then, for the community, add hotel room rentals, car rentals, restaurant meals and tips, etc. Notice anything? That's a pretty substantial amount of money.

    But the thought doesn't seem to cross anybody's mind that money could matter to a business, or to a community. Must be a bunch of Bernie Sanders voters. Lol

  16. #16
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Parking lot money too.

  17. #17
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    A typical Spurs playoff game boosts the team’s Revenue by ~2.5 million $USD. It isn’t chump change.

  18. #18
    Veteran Death In June's Avatar
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    You really have to hope they stop winning every other game. If they can just land themselves in another 6-7 game losing streak, they're back in the conversation for a good pick. Right now, they're in the worst spot they could be in. Just behind a playoff berth, and too far ahead for a meaningful return on their failure.

  19. #19
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    See, to me that's just not the right question. The real question is whether they could have all those things AND a 7-8 pick, and be better still.
    I've thought about that, and wrote about it in the tear-down article I did a while ago. The Spurs were 7-14 at the time and, historically, the 8th seed in the west would win at least 48 games. Since then, however, it's looking increasingly likely that the 8th seed will be below 500.

    The Spurs still have a great chance of making the playoffs and are going to be in the mix come the trade deadline. It's hard to see a team who's only missed the playoffs twice in 30 seasons, punting and tanking when there is a pretty good chance that they'll get the 8th seed.

    Picks in the 15-17 range aren't unvaluable, especially to the Spurs. Having that and extending their streak is probably the best and most realistic outcome, at this point.

  20. #20
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    You left out the money. That's a serious omission where a business is concerned.

    Take the average Spurs ticket price (which would be higher for the playoffs) multiply it by 18,000 and then by 2 (for a minimum of 2 home games,) and see what you get. Add concession and souvenir sales. Then, for the community, add hotel room rentals, car rentals, restaurant meals and tips, etc. Notice anything? That's a pretty substantial amount of money.

    But the thought doesn't seem to cross anybody's mind that money could matter to a business, or to a community. Must be a bunch of Bernie Sanders voters. Lol
    I actually did consider adding that in, but the article was running long as is. Normally two home games in the playoffs can add up to 3 million dollars in revenue, iirc.

    That's not nothing, and if the Spurs were able to make it a compe ive series, then they'd get another game at home and another 1.5 million in revenue.

  21. #21
    Veteran Proxy's Avatar
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    I mean...... just go for the playoff streak record, this is the last season

  22. #22
    half man half amazing
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    Basically my view is that the Spurs missing the playoffs vs making the playoffs comes down to the incentive. The incentive being draft picks. Missing would land the Spurs around the 14th pick while making it would land the Spurs 15-17. That difference isn't worth missing the playoffs for the first time in 23 years.

    Either way, the Spurs could be a lot better next season by building on Aldridge's shooting, DeMar playing like he is, Murray continuing to improve his shot and replacing Forbes with Walker.

    Spurs don't necessarily need to invest in this team, more like ride it out while maximizing it's ceiling. If DDR opts in, then Gay, DDR, LMA, and Mills will become free agents after next season. The Spurs can retool then.
    I can't imagine 3 straight seasons of watching these ty lineups

  23. #23
    Believe. JuneJive's Avatar
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    The difference between them making or missing the playoffs is what, 4-5 spots in the draft?

    Tough one, but if they are not trading LMA / DeMar then playoffs it is.

  24. #24
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    I mean...... just go for the playoff streak record, this is the last season
    agree, too late to tank anyway

  25. #25
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    I've thought about that, and wrote about it in the tear-down article I did a while ago. The Spurs were 7-14 at the time and, historically, the 8th seed in the west would win at least 48 games. Since then, however, it's looking increasingly likely that the 8th seed will be below 500.

    The Spurs still have a great chance of making the playoffs and are going to be in the mix come the trade deadline. It's hard to see a team who's only missed the playoffs twice in 30 seasons, punting and tanking when there is a pretty good chance that they'll get the 8th seed.

    Picks in the 15-17 range aren't unvaluable, especially to the Spurs. Having that and extending their streak is probably the best and most realistic outcome, at this point.

    I don't want to argue with you. You and I are on opposite sides, but you're willing to state your case and let me state mine, and that's good enough. You're taking time to write articles, and that gives us something to talk about other than Marco.

    Here's what I see: The Spurs are now 5 games out of 7th place and 3 games out of 14th place. (The Dubs have a lock on last place in the West.) I'm used to the aggravation of the Spurs losing this season. But if they are going to lose, I want them to lose with a purpose. Play the young guys who are the future, get them the experience they need to get better. And get a draft pick that is high enough to bring in some exceptional talent. You're right - picks in the 15-17 range aren't unvaluable. But everyone available at 15 was available at 7 - not the other way around.

    The thing that separates you and me is that you see that playoff record as a purpose for the season, and I don't. That's not basketball analysis, it's just personal values. If I valued asterisks in the record book, I'd be saying the exact same things you are. To me, the idea of squeezing into the record book with a sub-.500 record isn't a mark of team excellence. There's probably no way to reconcile that.

    https://clutchpoints.com/10-teams-ta...chise-players/

    https://towardsdatascience.com/what-...a-2c5fe228cd67

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