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  1. #76
    my team isn't the raptors gambit1990's Avatar
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    crazy but i like it
    lol. This is crazy and yet beautiful at the same time. I would prefer this over doing nothing.

    WB/Murray
    White/Mills
    PJ/Walker
    LMA/Lyles
    Capela/Metu

    Better lineup than we have now


    spurs would have a loyal superstar who is also an ironman locked up for years. big three of WB, la, capela to go along with mills, murray, white, walker, tucker.

  2. #77
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Well yeah, thats what I asked you for your opinion first. I gave mine, so you were clear on where I stood, but I asked for yours.
    What I mean is that it's just an opinion that it's been to be bad than mediocre. I used to be pro-tanking, but I think I'd rather the team make aggressive but smart moves to try to be better.

    They are trying to win now. Itís why they have two max players in LMA/DeRozan and re-signed Rudy Gay and brought in an aging vet in Carroll. Along with keeping Beli, Mills, etc...They absolutely are trying to win now and that has been the goal. I dont think they can acquire a better talent than LMA to pair with DeRozan either so I donít see much improvement with DeRozan led Spurs on the horizon. You listed 3 terrible franchises. Unless you think SA is poorly run as a whole (I donít) then itís not really comparable.
    They're not. Neither DeRozan nor Aldridge are max players (they aren't making anywhere close to their maxes and didn't sign deals that were maxes in their day). The rest of those moves are sorta "win-now" in the sense that they aren't tanking. But they haven't made a single trade of a future asset unless you count Bertans for Carroll. There were moves like Bogdanovic that I wanted the team to make that they didn't seem to consider. They have all of their future picks except their 2022 second, and they have five players on rookie deals (six if you count Metu). They've certainly not exhausted the well to make this roster.

    Good teams do good things and bad teams do bad things. Winning 45-47 is a noble cause; SA isnt there and I donít think they can be with this core.
    Eh, both guys have been on teams that have won more than that. The Spurs have a better record against team's at or above .500 than the Raptors do and comparable to a number of playoff teams. Their problem is they can't close against bad teams. Their 12-11 record against the dregs is in the bottom-10 in the league. It's totally within the realm of possibility for them to clean that up, especially if they improve their role-player talent. Everyone currently on a 47-win pace is at least plus-10 against the bad teams. If the Spurs had that same differential, they'd be at 24-18, or a 47-win pace. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. Just showing that it's not really a hard margin to realize.

    EDIT:

    Forgot that I pulled out your statement on MKE, Philly and MEM. That's a weird list, since the Bucks didn't tank and the Sixers and Grizzlies spent years treadmilling before eventually blowing it up. None of those teams are examples for why the team should try to get bad as soon as possible. I'm also not convinced the Sixers would be good had they not fired Hinkie. Even if you counted them all, their current success at tanking certainly doesn't outweight how long SAC. PHX and Minny have been bad outside of the Wolves one season of not trying to force their young core into star roles.
    Last edited by Chinook; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:24 PM.

  3. #78
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    I will stand by mine that I need to see those guys play much better before I assume they're going to give All-Star production.
    What good is his offensive production when a) we are outside the top 8 with a very tough schedule in Feb and b) DeRozan has shown time and time again that he shrinks in the playoffs or anytime you play him physical. What kind of example is he to the young guys by not playing defense and has terrible body language when things get tough. I don’t see any reason to keep him on roster. Although he’s injured, I much rather get a guy like Winslow from the heat then continue with DDR.

  4. #79
    Believe. tonski17's Avatar
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    keep DDR.

  5. #80
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Based on what? Your opinion?
    Defense. Metu is a better defender, especially when it comes to altering and blocking shots. Then when you consider that Lyles only averages 5 points per game and most of his shots are wide open 3-pointers, plus him stinking up fast breaks consistently, it's not far fetched to think that Metu should be able to come up with similar if not better offensive production. Metu can shoot the 3 and can certainly hit wide open ones. His athleticism alone should get him a few putbacks and transition buckets.

    Of course he'll need reps to adjust to NBA play, but play him consistently and he's better than Lyles. There's no doubt in my mind. He can do everything that Lyles does, while being way more athletic

  6. #81
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    It would benefit the Spurs if they could sign him to a cheap deal RIGHT NOW. Then trade him in the off-season. But demar and his agent would never go for it since he can get a full max as a free agent.

  7. #82
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    How you been, 'Lange? Feels like it's been a good while since I've run into you here.
    Oh you know.... living the dream

  8. #83
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    spurs would have a loyal superstar who is also an ironman locked up for years. big three of WB, la, capela to go along with mills, murray, white, walker, tucker.
    Westbrook is 31 and has a game based on his athleticism. He cannot shoot to save his life. He is taking 20 shots a night, so he would take more shots from the youngsters than Derozan. Why would we want to get him and his fat salary?

  9. #84
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    DeRozan is the piece around which things fit. If Murray can't fit with DeRozan, then it's Murray who has to change his game, because his game isn't good enough to build around. In fact, Murray has changed his game, and the team has been better for it. Can you trade DeMar for forwards and put the ball into Murray's hands more? Yes. Is that actually fitting better? No, because Murray shouldn't be more than the secondary ball-handler until/unless his skills improve. DeRozan and the four and Walker at the three continues to work for the Spurs, so there's no fit issue there. And White and DeRozan fit together just fine last year, and especially given White's role off the bench, there's room for them to co-exist. The problem with the personnel is that they are playing bad defenders like Forbes and Beli minutes when they could be playing Walker more or giving Carroll run. It's not that DeRozan is playing some of the best ball of his career and filling the stat sheet night in, night out.
    Neither is DeRozan's game good enough to build around. I don't think anyone is suggesting that they wouldn't be sacrificing some off the dribble dynamism or oomph offensively by giving the 3 young guards more minutes/p-n-r opportunities. But so long as the returning piece(s) can fit around them, they could have a more cohesive 2-way unit.

    DeRozan at the four is matchup dependant though and the reason they're playing bad defenders is in order to try to wring enough spacing out of the offense, which goes back to the difficulty of building around a player as one dimensional as him.


    No. I get that you and some fans are "in pain" over this season. But I'd be just fine with this season if Walker were getting good minutes and we saw more cameos from other young guys. I'm in no rush to root for a bad (meaning actually bad, not mediocre) team. I'd prefer les, but the last three years have been pretty okay all things considered. I doubt I'd watch them nearly as much if they were a 20-win team.
    Fair enough, but that's precisely the sort of short sighted thinking front office's need to steer clear of and it's in part what's gotten them in the predicament they're in.


    I'm not fixated on Gordon. He's just the easiest player to bring up. I've made my stance on this pretty clear: Tank or don't. If you can get a good pick and want to blow it up, I'd understand. But all that stuff you've argued about them getting "better fitting" pieces back just doesn't fly with me.
    You are. He's just one example of the type of trade they could conceivably make. They could just as easily prioritize a lottery protected 1st or prospect of commensurate value.

    In the end, it comes back to you overvaluing DeRozan because he looks the part of a star, while ignoring that he lacks the impact to match.


    It's not just spacing with Forbes. I don't disagree that Bryn's shooting is the main reason he's out there. But I totally think that Pop keeps him out there even in the event of a Porter/DeRozan swap. Most of the need to move away from Forbes goes away, in fact once you add in the extra size and theoretically better D from Porter. Sure, most of us here think that's all the more reason to move on. But especially given Aldridge likely moving back inside without DeMar, I don't see it changing.
    Nah, I feel confident in saying that in a DeRozan for Porter Jr. trade, Forbes' days of starting would be over.

    Aldridge could more back inside and starting either Walker or White would provide decent enough spacing surrounding him. He was a beast with less 2 seasons ago (granted, he's probably slightly worse now).


    Yes, and that's part of what made Pau a legit option until the wheels fell off. Spacing wouldn't be anything like a problem anymore, and the added play-making (which Poe has more than the average big, granted) would make it more viable. Indeed, the lack of mobility would be an even bigger issue, but Gasol had been a net-positive defensive player for years
    I wasn't debating that. I'm just saying, don't take Poeltl's 17 mpg to mean that he's that caliber of player or that they view him as such. He plays that because that's all the construction of this roster allows.

  10. #85
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    If you can keep DEROZZ and Lamar and still sign a young star player then I am all for keeping them. But if you have any indication that they expecting to much money or want to move to another team you trade them and get as much as ya can.

    The biggest issue is we need a starting PF no Lyles is not close to a starting PF and Rudy looks to be done and Lamar is not a PF. The second thing is that White needs to be made the starting PG and Murray needs to be officially moved to SG he is not nor will never be a PG. As far as Walker you can give him minutes at SG and also at SF. And no Forbes should not get any minutes he is not better then Murray, White, nor Walker.

    The thing though with DEROZZ I actually think if he was traded White, Walker, and Murray would improve dramatically by getting more playing time and not feeling obligated to get him the ball all the time. Heck I still think White and Poodle can be devastating in the pick and roll would also help Metu

    Keldon and Walker together is going to be scary next year.
    Last edited by BackHome; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:49 PM.

  11. #86
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    What I mean is that it's just an opinion that it's been to be bad than mediocre. I used to be pro-tanking, but I think I'd rather the team make aggressive but smart moves to try to be better.

    I'm fine either way but tanking and playing young guys is more interesting to me than this mediocrity. Of the two choices though I'd prefer (and be most interested in watching) the team if they makes those aggressive and smart moves you mentioned but, I haven't seen any of that. I can't 'invest' in that concept until I see some movement in that direction from the FO and if they aren't going to get that process started now I'd prefer blowing it up over this continued boring middle of the road path we're on.

  12. #87
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    This place will have a rude awakening if we move on from him. It would take a Walker explosion to make us relevant.
    We aren't relevant now

  13. #88
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    It's hard to picture DeRozan as a piece of some future contending Spurs team -- that's probably the bottom line.

    But in the meantime, he's carrying a flawed team with his own flawed (but very high energy) game.

    In other words, can't live with him, can't live without him.

    The resolution of this situation should speak volumes about the Spurs' thinking and their direction.
    We can definitely live without him... imagine if the nuggets kept Melo...lol...they would have been a borderline 8th seed the entire time... Thinking they can't get rid of him or else they would get worse...

    We would DEFINITELY get better without DeMar... We KNOW we would never win a ring with him... Why keep him?

  14. #89
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    Just let him walk tbh. All of the trade scenarios are trash (unless by some miracle we get a top 10 pick). Taking on more salary and more years for another player doesn't make sense. Just take the L and move on from him
    Trade for an expiring co tract and a pick

  15. #90
    Believe. Sugus's Avatar
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    If you can keep DEROZZ and Lamar and still sign a young star player then I am all for keeping them. But if you have any indication that they expecting to much money or want to move to another team you trade them and get as much as ya can.

    The biggest issue is we need a starting PF no Lyles is not close to a starting PF and Rudy looks to be done and Lamar is not a PF. The second thing is that White needs to be made the starting PG and Murray needs to be officially moved to SG he is not nor will never be a PG. As far as Walker you can give him minutes at SG and also at SF. And no Forbes should not get any minutes he is not better then Murray, White, nor Walker.

    The thing though with DEROZZ I actually think if he was traded White, Walker, and Murray would improve dramatically by getting more playing time and not feeling obligated to get him the ball all the time. Heck I still think White and Poodle can be devastating in the pick and roll would also help Metu

    Keldon and Walker together is going to be scary next year.
    I'm over the Lyles experiment. Bring on the Metu era. Pop, while he's the GOAT, for refusing to give young players minutes... Metu is stuck in Austin for a second season whilst Trey starts because he's been in the league a couple more years even though he's been trash the whole time.

  16. #91
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    Defense. Metu is a better defender, especially when it comes to altering and blocking shots. Then when you consider that Lyles only averages 5 points per game and most of his shots are wide open 3-pointers, plus him stinking up fast breaks consistently, it's not far fetched to think that Metu should be able to come up with similar if not better offensive production. Metu can shoot the 3 and can certainly hit wide open ones. His athleticism alone should get him a few putbacks and transition buckets.

    Of course he'll need reps to adjust to NBA play, but play him consistently and he's better than Lyles. There's no doubt in my mind. He can do everything that Lyles does, while being way more athletic
    Lyles is a basketball player. He can shoot, handle, and make good passes. Metu is a jumping jack, an athlete.

  17. #92
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Lyles is a basketball player. He can shoot, handle, and make good passes. Metu is a jumping jack, an athlete.
    Metu is a bit mechanical and stiff at this point.

    But he is also athletic.

    Guys like LMA have well-honed basketball skills and they are able to work backwards (away from the basket) to enlarge their game.

    Maybe Metu (with very few polished basketball skills) can use his athleticism and (hopefully) long-range shooting to win more playing time and thus get more comfortable on the court -- so he may leverage that playing time to actually develop his basic basketball skills.

    Sort of the reverse LMA.

  18. #93
    my team isn't the raptors gambit1990's Avatar
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    Westbrook is 31 and has a game based on his athleticism. He cannot shoot to save his life. He is taking 20 shots a night, so he would take more shots from the youngsters than Derozan. Why would we want to get him and his fat salary?
    his game is based on his athleticism but he's been an ironman. chip engelland can help with his shot.

    the dude put up 45/10/6 tonight on over 50% shooting.

    he would hyper charge the spurs. this team needs some heart tbqh.

  19. #94
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    his game is based on his athleticism but he's been an ironman. chip engelland can help with his shot.

    the dude put up 45/10/6 tonight on over 50% shooting.

    he would hyper charge the spurs. this team needs some heart tbqh.
    he has been an ironman when he was in his 20s. Now that he is entering his 30s, his body will slow him down at some point. He is projected to make 41, 44 and 47 millions over the next three years, he will eat most of the teams's salary. People complain about the youngsters not getting enough shots, with him on the floor, they'll get even less.

  20. #95
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    Trade for an expiring co tract and a pick
    So we might as well let him go. The draft is really weak this year and no team will give us a top10 pick anyway.

  21. #96
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
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    We aren't relevant now
    Bingo. I think the fan base is struggling to understand that

  22. #97
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Lyles is a basketball player. He can shoot, handle, and make good passes. Metu is a jumping jack, an athlete.
    oh really? A player on an NBA team is a basketball player? Never would've thought.

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