Page 1057 of 1225 FirstFirst ... 5755795710071047105310541055105610571058105910601061106711071157 ... LastLast
Results 26,401 to 26,425 of 30625
  1. #26401
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    143,646
    Too long to copy paste here...much more at the link. Curious to hear your thoughts on his theory.

    ==============================================

    The current expansion in prevalence of infectious Sars-CoV-2 variants is highly problematic because it erodes natural Ab-based, variant-nonspecific immunity in the non-vaccinated part of the population. The high infectivity rate that results from this expansion not only further enhances the expansion of these variants but may also drive natural selection of viral variants that are featured by an even higher level of infectiousness. Erosion, therefore, of natural Ab-based, variant-nonspecific immunity promotes breeding and transmission of more infectious viral variants in the non-vaccinated part of the population. On the other hand, mass vaccination promotes natural selection of increasingly vaccine immunity (VI)-escaping variants in the vaccinated part of the population. Taken together, mass vaccination conducted on a background of high infectivity rates enables more infectious, increasingly VI-escaping variants to expand in prevalence. This evolution inevitably results in inclining morbidity rates in both, the non-vaccinated and vaccinated population and precipitates the emergence of circulating viral variants that will eventually fully resist vaccine-mediated immunity (VMI). This is why mass vaccination campaigns should not be conducted during a pandemic of a highly mutable virus, let alone during a pandemic of more infectious variants (unless transmission-blocking vaccines are used!). It is critical to understand that a rapid decline in viral infectivity rates that is not achieved by natural infection but merely results from expedited mass vaccination campaigns will only delay abrupt propagation of emerging, fully vaccine-resistant viral variants and hence, only delay the occurrence of a high wave of morbidity and mortality. In contrast, mass vaccination campaigns that are progressing more slowly, especially when conducted on a background of relatively low infectious pressure, will result in a steadily growing propagation of increasingly VI-escaping variants and hence, cause a wave of morbidity and mortality that continues to grow bigger and larger as more and more people become vaccinated. It’s only when fully vaccine-resistant viral variants will become dominant that this wave will start to peak.

    To prevent more detrimental consequences of the ongoing evolution of Sars-CoV-2, we have no choice but to mitigate erosion of natural, Coronavirus (CoV)-nonspecific immunity in non-vaccinated individuals and exertion of strong immune selection pressure on immunodominant vaccinal epitopes in vaccinated individuals. This is to say that we must stop mass vaccination and lower viral infectivity rates immediately. Continued mass vaccination will only lead to a further increase in morbidity and hospitalization rates, which will subsequently culminate in a huge case fatality wave when expansion of more infectious, vaccine-resistant variants will explode.

    A rapid and substantial decrease in viral infectivity rates could be achieved by a short-term course of large-scale antiviral chemoprophylaxis (suitable candidates have already been identified) and adequate infection prevention measures while early treatment of symptomatically infected subjects and implementation of a healthy eating (including certain dietary supplements) and lifestyle (including exercise!) plan would further contribute to building herd immunity. Although this strategy is unlikely to eradicate the virus, it should allow forcing the pandemic into transitioning to a kind of ‘artificial’endemicity. Of course, as asymptomatic reservoirs (asymptomatically infected vaccinated or non-vaccinated humans or even animals) would remain, mass gatherings would still need to be avoided in the future and large-scale chemoprophylaxis campaigns using antiviral drugs would likely need to be repeated at specific time intervals and for as long as no sterilizing immune intervention is available. The action plan proposed above should immediately be implemented: Once the virus will become entirely resistant to the current vaccines, the above-mentioned measures will no longer be able to prevent a dramatic rise in casualties, unless campaigns of antiviral chemoprophylaxis are conducted worldwide and on a permanent basis.

    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/p...is-toning-down
    Not the first time I read about warnings on immune escape (one paper here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...36-0/fulltext), specifically about COVID. He's a bit more alarmed, but nonetheless raises a valid point.

    Time will tell, but at least current evidence with similar coronaviruses like the flu diminish the argument. Furthermore, despite his claims that antiviral chemoprophylaxis works, they're really not very effective, as we've seen with Alpha before the vaccines and we're seeing with the Delta and Lambda variants where the dead continue to pile up.

    I don't think the argument is without merit or wrong. I just don't think we have a better treatment right now. And if we did, then we wouldn't need vaccines anymore. So, if anything, vaccines continue to buy us time to find that type of treatment.

  2. #26402
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    143,646
    mini-roundup of counterpoints to Van den Bossche's manifesto.

    tl;dr

    -- speculative, no evidence offered for his various claims in the manifesto
    -- variants of concern, including Delta, emerged before vaccination was widespread
    -- "leaky" vaccines can be swiftly reformulated
    -- Marek's disease shows that vaccines with a marginal effect on transmission can still significantly reduce the incidence of disease; around 99% in the case of Marek's disease
    -- sacrifices public safety to efficacy
    -- schoolboy howlers
    -- the urgency of Dr Van Den Bossche's unpublished scientific hunch is such that there is no time to do the science, mass vaccination must be suspended immediately; but he has no ready solution, just more speculation (coindentally, about a new type of vaccine he is involved in making, but hasn't shared with other scientists yet.)
    -- hasn't published a research paper since 1995

    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...vanden-bossche
    https://www.deplatformdisease.com/bl...ossches-claims
    Read this after I replied, and like I noted, he does sound quite alarmed for some reason. What he mentions isn't new either, or without merit, but not a better alternative to vaccines at the moment.

  3. #26403
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    85,333
    my folks were set to visit us this weekend to visit spurraider jr... just cancelled their flights because my dad tested positive last second

  4. #26404
    Veteran hater's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    59,215
    my folks were set to visit us this weekend to visit spurraider jr... just cancelled their flights because my dad tested positive last second
    That sucks but vaxed right. So should be fine.

    They really need to stop calling it a rare breakthrough infection

  5. #26405
    Veteran hater's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    59,215
    my folks were set to visit us this weekend to visit spurraider jr... just cancelled their flights because my dad tested positive last second
    That sucks but vaxed right. So should be fine.

    They really need to stop calling it a rare breakthrough infection

  6. #26406
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    RO=8-9 now?

    The CDC presentation says the Delta variant is about as transmissible as chickenpox, with each infected person, on average, infecting eight or nine others. The original lineage was about as transmissible as the common cold, with each infected person passing the virus to about two other people on average.
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/polit...ons/index.html

  7. #26407
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    Classic GOP bully act: Wisconsin Republicans will meet remotely without a public hearing to prevent UW from protecting its students.

    45,000 students attend UW.

    A Republican-controlled committee plans to block the University of Wisconsin from ins uting COVID-19 testing, masking and vaccination protocols on campuses across the state, a move that comes as health officials sound warnings about the rapidly spreading, highly contagious delta variant.


    State Sen. Steve Nass said Wednesday that he would be moving to require the university to get approval from the Legislature before enacting any virus-related regulations. Nass co-chairs the Legislature’s GOP-controlled rules committee, which Nass said will vote remotely Tuesday to block UW virus protocols without a public hearing.
    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...es/5415926001/

  8. #26408
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    based on this, perhaps?


  9. #26409
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    "preliminary data, subject to change"


  10. #26410
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    more screenshots (allegedly) of the internal CDC do ent at this thread:


  11. #26411
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    "get the shot, people"


  12. #26412
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Post Count
    13,457
    Spreads faster then chicken pox,common cold and ebola. Worry that current vaccines will soon be ineffective. Fully vaccinated immune compromised and elderly being hospitalized delta is really ing up

  13. #26413
    Veteran hater's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    59,215
    CNN a complete 180

    Vaccination is not enough by itself to stop the spread of variants, study finds

    But, but vaccines

    Says new goal is to keep.wearing masks until we vaccinate 8 billion people and hope the resistant strains die out by us wearing masks the whole time.

    So we gonna be wearing masks and social distance for thenext 2, 3 years and that MIGHT work

  14. #26414
    Veteran hater's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    59,215
    New Zealand back in the lead as most successful country. USA back to the middle of the pack


  15. #26415
    Veteran hater's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    59,215
    Time for another toilet paper run...

  16. #26416
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    39,555
    my folks were set to visit us this weekend to visit spurraider jr... just cancelled their flights because my dad tested positive last second
    Man, that sucks.

    I have a friend in Colorado who got exposed. His only symptoms were chills, which resolved overnight.

    Fully vaxxed (Moderna). 60+ white male. No comorbidities.

  17. #26417
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    39,555
    UK data suggests delta less deadly

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

  18. #26418
    Veteran hater's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Post Count
    59,215
    3.8 billion doses have been administered in Earth

    Thats like 2 billion fully vaxed humans tops? So it took 8 months to vax 2 billion and those were the easy ones (rich countries)

    The hard part is vaxing the remaining 6 billion humans in mostly poor countries. That easilyncan take 2 - 4 years.

    Oh and forgot that we need to keep.boosting these people throughout

  19. #26419
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    not quite as simple as "Dems do it, Republicans don't"


  20. #26420
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    32,388
    If The virus can be transmitted by vaccinated individuals just as easy as unvaccinated we are in deep and the symptoms are significant in both groups we are in big trouble.

    The antivac population was big enough and timed properly. Either the virus has significantly changed in delta or people are just getting giant doses now as opposed to earlier where the vaccines were clearly working. Or a combination of both.

    not good If some of this internal “might be” turns out to be accurate

  21. #26421
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    If The virus can be transmitted by vaccinated individuals just as easy as unvaccinated we are in deep and the symptoms are significant in both groups we are in big trouble.

    The antivac population was big enough and timed properly. Either the virus has significantly changed in delta or people are just getting giant doses now as opposed to earlier where the vaccines were clearly working. Or a combination of both.

    not good If some of this internal “might be” turns out to be accurate
    CDC needs to show its work; it smacks of propaganda not to release the data publicly so experts can evaluate it.

    It should also be be stressed that vaccination still does a great job of preventing infection, 80-90%+ efficacy for mRNA vaccines. Therefore, it is misleading to say, as many media outlets have, that the vaccinated spread COVID "just as easily." If vaccine efficacy is as good as advertised, the ratio of the vaccinated spreading COVID will be much smaller than the ratio of unvaccinated folks passing it on.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 07-30-2021 at 09:05 AM.

  22. #26422
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    it seems more reasonable to say, if the CDC's internal docs accurately reflect the facts, is that because people with breakthrough infections have similar ers as unvaccinated people, similar rates of transmission may be expected.

  23. #26423
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    this may have spooked the CDC

    As of Thursday, 882 people were tied to the Provincetown outbreak. Among those living in Massachusetts, 74% of them were fully immunized, yet officials said the vast majority were also reporting symptoms. Seven people were reported hospitalized.
    When a vaccinated person gets infected with delta -- called a "breakthrough infection" -- "the level of virus in their nasopharynx is about 1,000 times higher than with the alpha variant," Fauci said in an interview Wednesday with MSNBC.
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cdc-...ry?id=79148102

  24. #26424
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    18,889
    If The virus can be transmitted by vaccinated individuals just as easy as unvaccinated we are in deep and the symptoms are significant in both groups we are in big trouble.

    The antivac population was big enough and timed properly. Either the virus has significantly changed in delta or people are just getting giant doses now as opposed to earlier where the vaccines were clearly working. Or a combination of both.

    not good If some of this internal “might be” turns out to be accurate
    We could be ed. Not to even mention that as of right now (according to what I've read), we can transmit the virus to animals (pets specifically), but the risk is low that they transmit to humans.
    But if that's wrong, or that virus continues to mutate and becomes easily transmissible between species, then that's a major problem.

  25. #26425
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    72,889
    We could be ed. Not to even mention that as of right now (according to what I've read), we can transmit the virus to animals (pets specifically), but the risk is low that they transmit to humans.
    But if that's wrong, or that virus continues to mutate and becomes easily transmissible between species, then that's a major problem.
    related:

    https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/7/29/22...ssible-dog-rat
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....26.21261142v1

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 4 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •