1. #31801
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    The vaccine doesnt prevent spread. Stop spreading fake news.

    The most idiotic way of approaching the pandemic is "well you do have quite good immunity vs this..but you should take the shot anyway so you can have Super duper immunity"




    Follow d.science thang
    Holy ...

    So the only usefulness of a vaccine is to help mitigate the symptoms in AN INDIVIDUAL.
    There is no PUBLIC health value?

    wtf is wrong with you... after this much discussion... there is an entire branch of science devoted to trying to figure out what level of vaccination and infectious phases there are in humans to get to in order to prevent rapid spread...
    Why do we even care about testing people and trying to figure out how long they need to stay away from people like, oh like... FAMILY members who are extremely vulnerable even if vaccinated or those WHO CANNOT be vaccinated. Why would anyone care if they were spreading virus while a family member is undergoing chemotherapy?

    worst poster ever...

  2. #31802
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    it's everybody's business
    How so? How is your health my business?
    if there is a way to collectively make us more protected in a way that doesnt require people to risk their health by intentionally getting infected, we should do that
    You're moving goalposts again. Try to stick with the topic of vaccinated vs natural immunity. I don't think Joe really thinks people should go out and seek COVID. I think he was offering a counter to Gupta's comment about natural immunity folks going out and getting the vaccine to protect others, not sure who but some others obviously. You also don't get it that there's no "we" where health is concerned. There's only you and there's me. I have no say in how healthy you live your life. If you are not endangering me, then I have no business in your business. If a person with natural immunity is more protected than you are, then you're the one risking people's lives moreso than the NI person. I don't care if it's all you can do, it's still a fact.
    its not a zero sum game. the more collective protection we have, the better. if there are people not doing all they can (within reason), then them, honestly
    There's that "within reason" caveat again. I guess my suggestion to you wasn't within reason. It's better that you risk people's lives than avoid seeing them. However since it doesn't affect you, you want to tell someone else what to do with their own body, someone less likely to infect others than are you. I thought the left was against that.

  3. #31803
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    great so you agree with my position in all this
    No because you obviously see danger.

  4. #31804
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    And peer review is an integral part of giving research any credibility, tbh... anybody can publish, not everybody can get past the peer review...
    Not important since the part Darrin was referring to was simple guidance. The rest of the do ent is unimportant. Both sides here think the most vulnerable should be protected first, and that people should have a high resistance to the virus. The difference between the sides is that one side thinks anything above "best vaccinated immunity" is gravy, while the other side still wants people at that level to go even further for the sake of the collective. (there I said collective).

  5. #31805
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Holy ...

    So the only usefulness of a vaccine is to help mitigate the symptoms in AN INDIVIDUAL.
    There is no PUBLIC health value?
    "Our vaccines are working exceptionally well. They continue to work well with delta with regard to severe illness and death, but what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission."

    -CDC Director

  6. #31806
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    "Our vaccines are working exceptionally well. They continue to work well with delta with regard to severe illness and death, but what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission."

    -CDC Director
    Yes they can.
    ex.
    People with chemotherapy can avoid getting Covid while immuno compromised if they were already vaccinated AND avoid people who are spreading it.
    When their immune system has returned to robust then the symptoms of the infection could very well be unnoticeable. The time frame that some people get infected is VERY important. During that time, when your wife is undergoing chemo, you will wear a mask and you will be vaccinated therefore you will be less likely to give her virus. Also the time frame in which infected people are shedding large amounts of virus is also very important to know...
    Honest to god...

    So this is within your family.
    Now apply this to people you dont know.
    Can you just saunter into a hospital treating patients who are very ill and most likely immunocompromised?
    Do you know why we sterilize different places within hospitals.
    Why is there this thing called hygiene? Whats that all about?

  7. #31807
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    I refuse to cover my mouth when sneezing.

    muh right to let it loose.

    And dont you dare make me stifle it. It will cause my head to blow up, just like masks have killed people through CO2 poisoning.

  8. #31808
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Yes they can.
    ex.
    People with chemotherapy can avoid getting Covid while immuno compromised if they were already vaccinated AND avoid people who are spreading it.
    When their immune system has returned to robust then the symptoms of the infection could very well be unnoticeable. The time frame that some people get infected is VERY important. During that time, when your wife is undergoing chemo, you will wear a mask and you will be vaccinated therefore you will be less likely to give her virus. Also the time frame in which infected people are shedding large amounts of virus is also very important to know...
    Honest to god...

    So this is within your family.
    Now apply this to people you dont know.
    Can you just saunter into a hospital treating patients who are very ill and most likely immunocompromised?
    Do you know why we sterilize different places within hospitals.
    Why is there this thing called hygiene? Whats that all about?
    I refuse to cover my mouth when sneezing.

    muh right to let it loose.

    And dont you dare make me stifle it. It will cause my head to blow up, just like masks have killed people through CO2 poisoning.

    You seem angry.

  9. #31809
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    How so? How is your health my business?
    because this is a contagious disease and we are in a pandemic

    You're moving goalposts again. Try to stick with the topic of vaccinated vs natural immunity. I don't think Joe really thinks people should go out and seek COVID. I think he was offering a counter to Gupta's comment about natural immunity folks going out and getting the vaccine to protect others, not sure who but some others obviously. You also don't get it that there's no "we" where health is concerned. There's only you and there's me. I have no say in how healthy you live your life. If you are not endangering me, then I have no business in your business. If a person with natural immunity is more protected than you are, then you're the one risking people's lives moreso than the NI person. I don't care if it's all you can do, it's still a fact.
    the bolded is moving the goalpost. the goalpost was vaccinated vs unvaccinated. and whether you've already had covid or not, being vaccinated offers greater protection than being unvaccinated.

    this isn't a compe ion or zero sum game to measure penis sizes and how immune one is. this isnt a question of less immune people telling more immune people what to do. its in the public's best interest for everybody to me as protected as they reasonably can

    it is reasonable to have people get vaccinated. its not reasonable to have people catch covid. there's a difference between the two.

    There's that "within reason" caveat again. I guess my suggestion to you wasn't within reason. It's better that you risk people's lives than avoid seeing them. However since it doesn't affect you, you want to tell someone else what to do with their own body, someone less likely to infect others than are you. I thought the left was against that.
    do you think its within reason to have everyone avoid seeing people in perpetuity? of course reasonableness has to come into the equation. this is how you make policy. unless you are incapable of dealing with elementary level nuance

    i dont care what you think "the left" is against. the problem with a contagious disease is that it is not just "your body"

  10. #31810
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Yeah?

    ok...
    My bad.
    Seeming is believing I guess.

  11. #31811
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    Well, let's put it in numbers. US population: 330 million, 1% of that: 3.3 million. That's a lot of people.

    Especially since the vaccine brings down that number considerably, at much, much less than 1% risk to you.
    A lot of ppl die all d time nig. Im for vaxing the very old and sick. The young and healthy can either vax or get natural immunity.

    Folllow da science


    If you're following the science, then you're vaccinated. I am too.
    I vaxed cause I had to travel overseas. Ce la vi. But it should be optional. No mandates

  12. #31812
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Not important since the part Darrin was referring to was simple guidance. The rest of the do ent is unimportant. Both sides here think the most vulnerable should be protected first, and that people should have a high resistance to the virus. The difference between the sides is that one side thinks anything above "best vaccinated immunity" is gravy, while the other side still wants people at that level to go even further for the sake of the collective. (there I said collective).
    I agree that given the point Darrin was trying to make, it failed at delivery, peer review or not.

    As to the rest, what I take exception to (and not necessarily advanced by you) is the notion that ‘natural immunity’ is a thing or a replacement for vaccination. It isn’t. Despite the odds being relatively small, the Darwin sweepstakes are measurably much easier to win than getting a largely safe, effective vaccine.

    If you like thrills, wanna be edgy or have a death wish, then by all means do your thing. But if we’re talking your average citizen, vaccination is indisputably the better option to face this virus.

  13. #31813
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    A lot of ppl die all d time nig.
    This is not an argument. Under this premise we don’t develop medicine at all, since “we’re all going to die one day”… with at udes like that we would’ve been extinct already.

    And no, diseases like this kill a boatload more people than your average, similar disease. That’s why this is a public health emergency and we take exceptional steps like lockdowns, social distancing, etc.



    I vaxed cause I had to travel overseas. Ce la vi. But it should be optional. No mandates
    If you’re making it optional, then you’re making optional following the science…

  14. #31814
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I vaxed cause I had to travel overseas.
    Mandates work.

  15. #31815
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Not so much, Dumper...MF Biden has lost 50k of dead Americans in the last 30 days, daddy.

  16. #31816
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    If you’re making it optional, then you’re making optional following the science…
    If you make it mandatory for children and youth you are not following d science ma nig. As its more dangerous to them than the virus itseld.

    Follow da science

  17. #31817
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    You just said there are no mandates at all

    . Chump

  18. #31818
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    If you make it mandatory for children and youth you are not following d science ma nig. As its more dangerous to them than the virus itseld.

    Follow da science
    The bolded is endorsed by science at this time. Follow da science

  19. #31819
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    The bolded is endorsed by science at this time. Follow da science
    Correct. Thus its not science to force vax on kids.



    Follow da science

  20. #31820
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I agree that given the point Darrin was trying to make, it failed at delivery, peer review or not.

    As to the rest, what I take exception to (and not necessarily advanced by you) is the notion that ‘natural immunity’ is a thing or a replacement for vaccination. It isn’t. Despite the odds being relatively small, the Darwin sweepstakes are measurably much easier to win than getting a largely safe, effective vaccine.

    If you like thrills, wanna be edgy or have a death wish, then by all means do your thing. But if we’re talking your average citizen, vaccination is indisputably the better option to face this virus.
    But we aren't suggesting that everyone should only rely on natural immunity. I am saying if you have natural immunity because you had COVID, then getting the vaccine for you should be about on par with a fully vaxxed person getting a booster shot. AFAIK we aren't talking about the non immunity, unvaxxed.

  21. #31821
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    But we aren't suggesting that everyone should only rely on natural immunity. I am saying if you have natural immunity because you had COVID, then getting the vaccine for you should be about on par with a fully vaxxed person getting a booster shot. AFAIK we aren't talking about the non immunity, unvaxxed.
    I get what you're saying, I was just pointing out what I take exception to.

    Some (not you) do indeed advance, incorrectly, that getting infected with COVID is less risky (in terms of death or hospitalization) than getting vaccinated.

    Or try to conclude that because having the infection might give you better/longer-lasting antibody protection against the virus than a given vaccine, 'natural immunity' is indeed an alternative solution to vaccination. That premise is largely incorrect, as doesn't take into account the risk of hospitalization or death and the pressure that puts on our healthcare system, which can be completely avoided with a free and extremely safe vaccine. This misinformation is what I take issue with.

    This is basic risk management. Again, this assumes the individual has an above room temperature IQ and that the ultimate goal is to have the best odds of survival. That assumption might not always hold though.

  22. #31822
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Correct. Thus its not science to force vax on kids.



    Follow da science
    So you made a claim unsupported by science. Please stop making stuff up and follow your own advice

  23. #31823
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    If Delta still has evolutionary pathways to higher transmissibility, "let 'er rip" is a terrible strategy.

    The fullest possible degree of vaccination against COVID is a reasonable precaution. If that means more mandates, so be it.

  24. #31824
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    So you made a claim unsupported by science. Please stop making stuff up and follow your own advice
    No. It is science ma nig. Read up and learn:

    US researchers say teenagers are more likely to get vaccine-related myocarditis than end up in hospital with Covid


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...suggests-study


    Follow da science

  25. #31825
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Already ripped, tbh

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