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  1. #40001
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    You feeling ok Qtsa?

    Critical thinking is beyond your understanding?

    Studies with no evidence are bad now?

    Your copy/paste walls show no evidence whatsoever that virus was engineered and leaked. Speculation yes, evidence, no.

    The article reports that there was genetic data from a market linking the virus to raccoon dogs for sale. Argue with that, idiot.
    You made the claim that pgardn was correct and then posted the NYT article as proof supporting the virus was not engineered. Not only did the article not support your first claim your article doesn’t even claim a raccoon dog was infected

    “The jumbling together of genetic material from the virus and the animal does not prove that a raccoon dog itself was infected.”

    You either didn’t read past the headline or you are genuinely re ed. Which one is it nut?

  2. #40002
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    You made the claim that pgardn was correct and then posted the NYT article as proof supporting the virus was not engineered. Not only did the article not support your first claim your article doesn’t even claim a raccoon dog was infected

    “The jumbling together of genetic material from the virus and the animal does not prove that a raccoon dog itself was infected.”

    You either didn’t read past the headline or you are genuinely re ed. Which one is it nut?
    The article reports that there was genetic data from a market linking the virus to raccoon dogs for sale.

    Show study that proves your engineered virus was leaked, idiot.

  3. #40003
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    The article reports that there was genetic data from a market linking the virus to raccoon dogs for sale.

    Show study that proves your engineered virus was leaked, idiot.
    Looks like pgardn was right, covid was not engineered.
    Quote the part of the article that proves covid was not engineered, idiot.

  4. #40004
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    This whole twisted logic about what the Chinese labs did is up for political decisions.

    Poltics guiding science can lead to some very bad outcomes for people. Look to Russia for a great example of how to starve people.

    In 1940, Lysenko became director of the Ins ute of Genetics within the USSR's Academy of Sciences, and he used his political influence and power to suppress dissenting opinions and discredit, marginalize, and imprison his critics, elevating his anti-Mendelian theories to state-sanctioned doctrine.[4]
    Soviet scientists who refused to renounce genetics were dismissed from their posts and left des ute. Hundreds if not thousands of others were imprisoned


    Actively genetically engineering a virus for the purpose of infecting people is STILL being spread by Trumpers.

  5. #40005
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    This whole twisted logic about what the Chinese labs did is up for political decisions.

    Poltics guiding science can lead to some very bad outcomes for people. Look to Russia for a great example of how to starve people.

    In 1940, Lysenko became director of the Ins ute of Genetics within the USSR's Academy of Sciences, and he used his political influence and power to suppress dissenting opinions and discredit, marginalize, and imprison his critics, elevating his anti-Mendelian theories to state-sanctioned doctrine.[4]
    Soviet scientists who refused to renounce genetics were dismissed from their posts and left des ute. Hundreds if not thousands of others were imprisoned


    Actively genetically engineering a virus for the purpose of infecting people is STILL being spread by Trumpers.
    Fauci used his political influence and power to suppress dissenting opinion, discredit, and marginalize scientists looking into the lab leak theory while secretly commissioning the drafting of the proximal origin paper to elevate his natural origin theory.

  6. #40006
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    Quote the part of the article that proves covid was not engineered, idiot.
    Quote any proof you have on it being engineered and leaked, you idiot.

    Also, you avoided part of article that said raccoon dog link is most tangible evidence virus was from wild animals outside of labs.

    “But the genetic data from the market offers some of the most tangible evidence yet of how the virus could have spilled into people from wild animals outside a lab. It also suggests that Chinese scientists have given an incomplete account of evidence that could fill in details about how the virus was spreading at the Huanan market.“

  7. #40007
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Quote any proof you have on it being engineered and leaked, you idiot.
    I've posted quite a bit on it possibly being engineered and leaked, you idiot. Never claimed it as fact like you did, idiot.

    Looks like pgardn was right, covid was not engineered.
    Again, quote the part of the article that proves covid was not engineered like you claimed, idiot.

    Also, you avoided part of article that said raccoon dog link is most tangible evidence virus was from wild animals outside of labs.

    “But the genetic data from the market offers some of the most tangible evidence yet of how the virus could have spilled into people from wild animals outside a lab. It also suggests that Chinese scientists have given an incomplete account of evidence that could fill in details about how the virus was spreading at the Huanan market.“
    Your reading comprehension is

    Also, you avoided this part of the article that said they couldn't even tell if a raccoon dog was even infected.

    "The jumbling together of genetic material from the virus and the animal does not prove that a raccoon dog itself was infected. And even if a raccoon dog had been infected, it would not be clear that the animal had spread the virus to people. Another animal could have passed the virus to people, or someone infected with the virus could have spread the virus to a raccoon dog."

    The only thing this lol "study" established was that they found raccoon dog genetic material at the same place they found virus genetic material, you ing idiot.

  8. #40008
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    I've posted quite a bit on it possibly being engineered and leaked, you idiot. Never claimed it as fact like you did,
    So you bend the knee, apologies accepted, idiot.

  9. #40009
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    There is quite a bit of evidence leading to lab leak, not so much for happening in nature.
    I should re-phrase then. The time to believe something is when you have sufficient, good evidence to do so.

    It is natural until you can produce very conclusive evidence.

    Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary proof.

    Viruses arise naturally all the time, every year, every day.

  10. #40010
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    So you bend the knee, apologies accepted, idiot.
    I bent you over and made you my .

    No amount of dissembling here will save you.

    Quote the part of the article that proves covid was not engineered like you claimed, or continue to deflect like a pussy.

  11. #40011
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    I bent you over and made you my .

    No amount of dissembling here will save you.

    Quote the part of the article that proves covid was not engineered like you claimed, or continue to deflect like a pussy.

    “Never claimed it as fact”

  12. #40012
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    I should re-phrase then. The time to believe something is when you have sufficient, good evidence to do so.

    It is natural until you can produce very conclusive evidence.

    Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary proof.

    Viruses arise naturally all the time, every year, every day.
    A virus escaping from a lab isn't extraordinary.


  13. #40013
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I've posted quite a bit on it possibly being engineered and leaked, you idiot. Never claimed it as fact like you did, idiot.



    Again, quote the part of the article that proves covid was not engineered like you claimed, idiot.



    Your reading comprehension is

    Also, you avoided this part of the article that said they couldn't even tell if a raccoon dog was even infected.

    "The jumbling together of genetic material from the virus and the animal does not prove that a raccoon dog itself was infected. And even if a raccoon dog had been infected, it would not be clear that the animal had spread the virus to people. Another animal could have passed the virus to people, or someone infected with the virus could have spread the virus to a raccoon dog."

    The only thing this lol "study" established was that they found raccoon dog genetic material at the same place they found virus genetic material, you ing idiot.
    which is consistent with the virus arising naturally.

    Bits of evidence rarely "prove" such things. You either have data that supports a hypothesis or you don't.

    We have data that is consistent with natural origins, using known pathways for animal to human transmission.

    You have what exactly? I went back a few pages and didn't see anything other than the NYT article.

  14. #40014
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    “Never claimed it as fact”
    Choosing to deflect like the pussy you are.

    You're such a little .

  15. #40015
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    Choosing to deflect like the pussy you are.

    You're such a little .

    “Never claimed it as fact”


    I broke you, live with it.

  16. #40016
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    which is consistent with the virus arising naturally.

    Bits of evidence rarely "prove" such things. You either have data that supports a hypothesis or you don't.

    We have data that is consistent with natural origins, using known pathways for animal to human transmission.

    You have what exactly? I went back a few pages and didn't see anything other than the NYT article.
    Except we don't have data that is consistent with natural origins using known pathways for animal to human transmission.

    The Covid-19 pathogen has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.
    Go back further and start around page 1592.


  17. #40017
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    A virus escaping from a lab isn't extraordinary.

    A graph that shows the number of "lab-acquired" infections over a FIFTY year period is approximately a hundred TOTAL for nine different viruses.

    That is your evidence that viruses escaping from a lab is an "ordinary" thing?

    Critical thinking questions:

    How does that compare to the number of non-laboratory acquired infections for the same period?

    Can something be "possible" without being "ordinary/routine/mundane/commonplace"?

  18. #40018
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    “Never claimed it as fact”


    I broke you, live with it.
    I can guarantee you are the only person here that thinks you've broken anyone.

    You got your pushed in and are embarrassed and lashing out.

  19. #40019
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    A graph that shows the number of "lab-acquired" infections over a FIFTY year period is approximately a hundred TOTAL for nine different viruses.

    That is your evidence that viruses escaping from a lab is an "ordinary" thing?

    Critical thinking questions:

    How does that compare to the number of non-laboratory acquired infections for the same period?

    Can something be "possible" without being "ordinary/routine/mundane/commonplace"?
    Take it up with the Economist.

    Infections caught in laboratories are surprisingly common

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...isingly-common

  20. #40020
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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  21. #40021
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    which is consistent with the virus arising naturally.

    Bits of evidence rarely "prove" such things. You either have data that supports a hypothesis or you don't.

    We have data that is consistent with natural origins, using known pathways for animal to human transmission.
    The Covid-19 pathogen has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus. How is that fact consistent with natural origins using know pathways for animal to human transmission?

  22. #40022
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  23. #40023
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    Looks like pgardn was right, covid was not engineered.

    An international team of virus experts said Thursday that they had found genetic data from a market in Wuhan, China, linking the coronavirus with raccoon dogs for sale there, adding evidence to the case that the worst pandemic in a century could have been ignited by an infected animal that was being dealt through the illegal wildlife trade.

    In recent weeks, the so-called lab leak theory, which posits that the coronavirus emerged from a research lab in Wuhan, has gained traction thanks to a new intelligence assessment from the U.S. Department of Energy and hearings led by the new Republican House leadership.

    But the genetic data from the market offers some of the most tangible evidence yet of how the virus could have spilled into people from wild animals outside a lab. It also suggests that Chinese scientists have given an incomplete account of evidence that could fill in details about how the virus was spreading at the Huanan market.

    New York Times paywall:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/16/s...-dogs-lab-leak










    This study that is getting shredded by the scientific community proves covid was not engineered.
    nut

  24. #40024
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Thank you. I appreciate it.

    So, let's evaluate the evidence.

    In order:
    1) "{The genetic structure of SARS‐CoV‐2 does not rule out a laboratory origin"

    Fair enough. Does not, though, provide evidence supporting artificial origin. Just that it can't be ruled out.

    2) Not peer reviewed. Very low weight of evidentiary value. Skimmed it, but hope someone does a good review to see if it hold sup.

    3) Best attempt yet to re-create the timeline. I find it persuasive, but not a scientific study per se, nor ultimately conclusive.

    The most compelling evidence shown in #3 shows evidence of the Chinese government actively covering up something, but given the nature of that regime, also not terribly conclusive, IMO. China regularly squashes dissent and something as sensitive as this would prompt a HUGE amount of repression no matter what actually happened to keep the official narrative intact.

    Good read, but not enough for me to accept the conclusion. I require some peer reviewed stuff looking at DNA for this extra-ordinary claim, preferably studies that are replicated.

  25. #40025
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    This whole twisted logic about what the Chinese labs did is up for political decisions.

    Poltics guiding science can lead to some very bad outcomes for people. Look to Russia for a great example of how to starve people.
    In 1940, Lysenko became director of the Ins ute of Genetics within the Academy of Sciences, and he used his political influence and power to suppress dissenting opinions and discredit, marginalize, and imprison his critics, elevating his anti-Mendelian theories to state-sanctioned doctrine.

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