1. #25826
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    How do you interpret the data I just reposted on masks?
    You posted graphs, there's no data there, just data representations.

    That said, I'd have to look a bit more closely at each study to evaluate, have you referred yourself to all the underlying studies, or are you just parroting someone else's take on them?

  2. #25827
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    snap take: taking countries singly and not comparatively looks like a weakness

  3. #25828
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Cost/benefit analysis.

    Some modest evidence that they lower transmission.

    What is the giant cost you are looking to avoid?

    What is the harm?

    Define and quantify.
    False sense of security. People who should be at home sick are out spreading it because they think they can't spread it with a mask on. People who think they are safe from getting it because of their mask are gathering in crowded indoor venues where it's known to spread much easier.

  4. #25829
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    You posted graphs, there's no data there, just data representations.

    That said, I'd have to look a bit more closely at each study to evaluate, have you referred yourself to all the underlying studies, or are you just parroting someone else's take on them?
    I'm not sure what underlying studies you are referring to. They are just data points.

  5. #25830
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what underlying studies you are referring to. They are just data points.
    If that's the case, my snap take is that data points do not provide a strong enough correlation to generalize. Generalizing from isolated data points isn't scientific method, it's just inductive reasoning.

  6. #25831
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    viruses do not respect international boundaries. so long as any country is vulnerable to runaway infection, we all are. without international cooperation regarding vaccination, it's doubtful COVID can be beaten in any country.

    that dumbass, delta came from India who had the opportunity to get vaccinated but punted for hubris and got ed for it, they in turn ed all of us

  7. #25832
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    viruses do not respect international boundaries. so long as any country is vulnerable to runaway infection, we all are. without international cooperation regarding vaccination, it's doubtful COVID can be beaten in any country.

    that dumbass, delta came from India who had the opportunity to get vaccinated but punted for hubris and got ed for it, they in turn ed all of us

  8. #25833
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    that dumbass, delta came from India who had the opportunity to get vaccinated but punted for hubris and got ed for it, they in turn ed all of us
    The US (and other rich countries) are doing a piss poor job of sharing their vaccine hoard, she's right about that.

  9. #25834
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    we had our turn being the epicenter, too.
    and when we were the epi we didnt the world, my post was more her being think of the poor countries but us being where we are because one country with a bunch of poor people ed us

  10. #25835
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    So now TSA is a mask denier.


  11. #25836
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    and when we were the epi we didnt the world
    How do you figure?

  12. #25837
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    How do you interpret the data I just reposted on masks?
    Your twitter rando is also propping up a bit of a strawman. It was never claimed that masking prevents COVID from ing, just that it mitigates transmission.

    About the latter, there seems to be little doubt from the studies I've read/posted here, but I also have little doubt you disagree, which frankly doesn't bother me.

  13. #25838
    Believe. Adam Lambert's Avatar
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    but do you think HCQ is an effective treatment/cure for COVID-19?

    you were pushing that quite a bit before
    Haven't looked into it for quite some time...no clue.
    Must've fallen off the Unpaid Donald Trump PR Team weekly talking points a while back.


  14. #25839
    Believe. Adam Lambert's Avatar
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    So now TSA is a mask denier.

    The MAGA Scientific Method:

    1. Question
    2. Hypothesis (determined by Donald Trump or Trump sycophants)
    3. Prediction (always affirms #2)
    4-5. Experimentation/Analysis (just find someone online that shares our position and sounds smarter than ducks)

  15. #25840
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    TSA is a perverted contrarian, flattering himself that he alone possesses the real take, nullifying all other inferior, wrong takes.

  16. #25841
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    They considered themselves an ‘anti-vax family’ – then they got COVID-19



    falling ill around July 4, believing at first it was related to the sweltering heat wave but soon realizing it was much worse

    "I lost my taste and smell, and that's when we realized we had COVID,"

    Husband and father Patrick Johnson was hospitalized

    on oxygen for a week and

    lost 25 pounds, but

    he feels lucky to be alive after having

    pneumonia in both lungs,

    acute kidney injury and

    respiratory failure.


    the whole family plans to get vaccinated after waiting the recommended three months after infection.

    https://www.rawstory.com/washington-state

  17. #25842
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Your twitter rando is also propping up a bit of a strawman. It was never claimed that masking prevents COVID from ing, just that it mitigates transmission.

    About the latter, there seems to be little doubt from the studies I've read/posted here, but I also have little doubt you disagree, which frankly doesn't bother me.
    From the first one you posted today

    "Only one observational study has directly analyzed the impact of mask use in the community on COVID-19 transmission. The study looked at the reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in Beijing households by face mask use (10). It found that face masks were 79% effective in preventing transmission, if they were used by all household members prior to symptoms occurring. The study did not look at the relative risk of different types of mask.

    In a systematic review sponsored by the World Health Organization, Chu et al. (11) looked at physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2. They found that “face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection.” However, the review included only three studies of mask use outside health care settings, all of which were of SARS, not of SARS-CoV-2, one of which was incorrectly categorized (it occurred in a hospital, but during family and friend visits), and one of which found that none of the households wearing masks had any infections, but was too underpowered to draw any conclusions (12). The remaining study found the use of masks was strongly protective, with a risk reduction of 70% for those that always wore a mask when going out (13), but it did not look at the impact of masks on transmission from the wearer. It is not known to what degree analysis of other coronaviruses can be applied to SARS-CoV-2. None of the studies looked at the relative risks of different types of mask.

    There has been one controlled trial of mask use for influenza control in the general community (14). The study looked at Australian households, was not done during a pandemic, and was done without any enforcement of compliance. It found that “in an adjusted analysis of compliant subjects, masks as a group had protective efficacy in excess of 80% against clinical influenza-like illness.” However, the authors noted that they “found compliance to be low, but compliance is affected by perception of risk. In a pandemic, we would expect compliance to improve.” In compliant users, masks were highly effective at reducing transmission.

    Overall, evidence from RCTs and observational studies is informative, but not compelling on its own. Both the Australian influenza RCT and the Beijing households observational trial found around 80% efficacy among compliant subjects, and the one SARS household study of sufficient power found 70% efficacy for protecting the wearer. However, we do not know whether the results from influenza or SARS will correspond to results for SARS-CoV-2, and the single observational study of SARS-CoV-2 might not be replicated in other communities. None of the studies looked specifically at cloth masks."

  18. #25843
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    TSA is a perverted contrarian, flattering himself that he alone possesses the real take, nullifying all other inferior, wrong takes.
    I think he will do whatever is safest for his wife and unborn child.

  19. #25844
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    From the first one you posted today

    "Only one observational study has directly analyzed the impact of mask use in the community on COVID-19 transmission. The study looked at the reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in Beijing households by face mask use (10). It found that face masks were 79% effective in preventing transmission, if they were used by all household members prior to symptoms occurring. The study did not look at the relative risk of different types of mask.

    In a systematic review sponsored by the World Health Organization, Chu et al. (11) looked at physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2. They found that “face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection.” However, the review included only three studies of mask use outside health care settings, all of which were of SARS, not of SARS-CoV-2, one of which was incorrectly categorized (it occurred in a hospital, but during family and friend visits), and one of which found that none of the households wearing masks had any infections, but was too underpowered to draw any conclusions (12). The remaining study found the use of masks was strongly protective, with a risk reduction of 70% for those that always wore a mask when going out (13), but it did not look at the impact of masks on transmission from the wearer. It is not known to what degree analysis of other coronaviruses can be applied to SARS-CoV-2. None of the studies looked at the relative risks of different types of mask.

    There has been one controlled trial of mask use for influenza control in the general community (14). The study looked at Australian households, was not done during a pandemic, and was done without any enforcement of compliance. It found that “in an adjusted analysis of compliant subjects, masks as a group had protective efficacy in excess of 80% against clinical influenza-like illness.” However, the authors noted that they “found compliance to be low, but compliance is affected by perception of risk. In a pandemic, we would expect compliance to improve.” In compliant users, masks were highly effective at reducing transmission.

    Overall, evidence from RCTs and observational studies is informative, but not compelling on its own. Both the Australian influenza RCT and the Beijing households observational trial found around 80% efficacy among compliant subjects, and the one SARS household study of sufficient power found 70% efficacy for protecting the wearer. However, we do not know whether the results from influenza or SARS will correspond to results for SARS-CoV-2, and the single observational study of SARS-CoV-2 might not be replicated in other communities. None of the studies looked specifically at cloth masks."
    Yeah, it's not cut and dried. Science never is.

    It's a process not a destination.

  20. #25845
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    How do you figure?
    I'd the American variant floating around killing people? That's how i figure

  21. #25846
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    False sense of security. People who should be at home sick are out spreading it because they think they can't spread it with a mask on. People who think they are safe from getting it because of their mask are gathering in crowded indoor venues where it's known to spread much easier.
    Reasonable arguments.

    Not much on the quantification, but reasonable arguments.

    Seems like arguments that are also in favor of limiting events and venue capacity.

  22. #25847
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I'd the American variant floating around killing people? That's how i figure
    The Alpha variant?

    Afiak it hasn't vanished yet, but any info you might have would be very welcome. I honestly don't know how many people Alpha is killing now.

  23. #25848
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    TSA is a perverted contrarian, flattering himself that he alone possesses the real take, nullifying all other inferior, wrong takes.
    Pretty much.


  24. #25849
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    The MAGA Scientific Method:

    1. Question
    2. Hypothesis (determined by Donald Trump or Trump sycophants)
    3. Prediction (always affirms #2)
    4-5. Experimentation/Analysis (just find someone online that shares our position and sounds smarter than ducks)
    6. Find and post study that examined the problems of the exact studies winehole linked and went further than previous studies and compared COVID-19 case growth rates in states with and without mandates along with effects of compliance.

  25. #25850
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's not cut and dried. Science never is.

    It's a process not a destination.
    Agreed. The best evidence would be small scale, isolated studies where the variables can be controlled.

    That is, of course what is in short supply. We have a lot of meta-analysis of masks and mandates, and that is mildly ok, if done right, but absolutely not conclusive as to the singular question about reduction for individuals.

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