Coronavirus is one mutation away from infecting millions

[spurraider21]

Todaro isn't an impartial arbiter when it comes to hydrochloroquine... read about him a bit

[TSA]

He's just telling you you're wrong. Will you own up to it?

Wrong about what? I’m not the one who touted the bunk study.

[TSA]

Todaro isn't an impartial arbiter when it comes to hydrochloroquine... read about him a bit

Todaro didn’t write the article in the Guardian.

[ElNono]

Wrong about what? I’m not the one who touted the bunk study.

You touted the fake news that it was bunk, when it clearly is not (at least not yet, even expressed by Chen himself). Will you own up that you jumped the gun?

[ElNono]

I tell you what, I'll stand by my promise of apologizing and owning any mistakes if this study is retracted as having misleading data, or for any other reason. I'll honor it, that's the right thing to do.

That works for you? I'm not even asking you admit to posting fake news. This is all political for you, it isn't for me.

[TSA]

You touted the fake news that it was bunk, when it clearly is not (at least not yet, even expressed by Chen himself). Will you own up that you jumped the gun?

It’s bunk and you touted it. Own it.

what’s flawed about that study?

1.There wasinadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).

2.The authors have not adhered to standard practices in the machine learning and statistics community. They have not releasedtheir code or data. There is no data/code sharing and availability statement in the paper. The Lancet was among the many signatories on the Wellcome statementon data sharing for COVID-19 studies.

3.There was noethics review.

4.There was no mention of the countries or hospitals that contributed to the data sourceandno acknowledgments to their contributions.A request to the authors for information on the contributing centres was denied.

5.Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period). Surgisphere (the data company) have since statedthis was an error of classificationof one hospital from Asia.Thisindicates the need for further error checking throughout thedatabase.

6.Data from Africa indicate thatnearly 25% of all COVID-19 cases and 40% of all deaths in the continentoccurred in Surgisphere-associated hospitals which had sophisticated electronic patient data recording, and patient monitoring able to detect and record “nonsustained [at least 6 secs] or sustained ventricular tachycardia or ventricularfibrillation”. Both the numbers of cases and deaths, and the detailed data collection, seem unlikely.

7.Unusually small reported variances in baseline variables, interventions and outcomes between continents(Table S3)

8.Mean daily doses of hydroxychloroquine that are 100 mg higher than FDA recommendations, whereas 66% of the data are from North American hospitals.

9.Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents

10.The tight 95% confidence intervals reported for the hazard ratios are unlikely. For instance,for the Australiandatathis would need about double the numbers of recorded deathsas were reported in the pape

[ElNono]

It’s bunk and you touted it. Own it.

Nobody in the article you posted claimed it's bunk. I dare you to quote that article YOU posted as evidence that there's a claim the study is bunk.

1.There wasinadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).

2.The authors have not adhered to standard practices in the machine learning and statistics community. They have not releasedtheir code or data. There is no data/code sharing and availability statement in the paper. The Lancet was among the many signatories on the Wellcome statementon data sharing for COVID-19 studies.

3.There was noethics review.

4.There was no mention of the countries or hospitals that contributed to the data sourceandno acknowledgments to their contributions.A request to the authors for information on the contributing centres was denied.

5.Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period). Surgisphere (the data company) have since statedthis was an error of classificationof one hospital from Asia.Thisindicates the need for further error checking throughout thedatabase.

6.Data from Africa indicate thatnearly 25% of all COVID-19 cases and 40% of all deaths in the continentoccurred in Surgisphere-associated hospitals which had sophisticated electronic patient data recording, and patient monitoring able to detect and record “nonsustained [at least 6 secs] or sustained ventricular tachycardia or ventricularfibrillation”. Both the numbers of cases and deaths, and the detailed data collection, seem unlikely.

7.Unusually small reported variances in baseline variables, interventions and outcomes between continents(Table S3)

8.Mean daily doses of hydroxychloroquine that are 100 mg higher than FDA recommendations, whereas 66% of the data are from North American hospitals.

9.Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents

10.The tight 95% confidence intervals reported for the hazard ratios are unlikely. For instance,for the Australiandatathis would need about double the numbers of recorded deathsas were reported in the pape

Can you source this? I know you didn't come up with this, you barely read the article you yourself posted.

[ElNono]

I'm pretty sure I know why you didn't source all that, but let's see if my theory is correct

[spurraider21]

its in the link from the Todaro tweet

[ElNono]

its in the link from the Todaro tweet

You mean the letter that asks for clarification, but doesn't actually claim the study or results are bunk... thanks

[TSA]

I'm pretty sure I know why you didn't source all that, but let's see if my theory is correct

List of SignatoriesDr James Watson (Statistician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)1Professor Amanda Adler (Trialist & Clinician, Director of the Diabetes Trials Unit, UK)DrRavi Amaravadi (Researcher,University of Pennsylvania, USA)Dr Ambrose Agweyu (Medical researcher, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor MichaelAvidan(Clinician, Washington University in St Louis, USA)Professor Nicholas Anstey (Clinician, Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Dr Yaseen Arabi (Clinician, King Saud Bin Abdulaziz University for Health Sciences, Saudi Arabia)Dr Elizabeth Ashley (Clinician, Director of the Lao-Oxford-Mahosot Hospital-Wellcome Trust Research Unit, Laos) Professor Kevin Baird (Researcher, Headof the Eijkman-Oxford Clinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Francois Balloux (Researcher, Director of the UCL Genetics Ins ute, UK)Dr Clifford George Banda (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa) Dr Edwine Barasa(Health economist, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya) Professor Karen Barnes (Clinical Pharmacology, University of Cape Town, South Africa)Professor David Boulware (Researcher& Triallist, University of Minnesota, USA)Professor Buddha Basnyat (Clinician, Head of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit -Nepal, Nepal)Professor Philip Bejon (Medical researcher, Director of the KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor Mohammad Asim Beg(Clinician/Researcher, Aga Khan University,Pakistan)Professor Emmanuel Bottieau (Clinician, Ins ute of Tropical Medicine, Antwerp, Belgium)Dr Sabine Braat (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Frank Brunkhorst (Clinician, Jena University Hospital, Germany)Dr Todd Campbell Lee (Researcher, McGill University, Canada)Professor Caroline Buckee (Epidemiologist, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA)Dr James Callery (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor John Carlin (Statistician, University of Melbourne & Murdoch Children’s Research Ins ute, Australia)Dr Nomathemba Chandiwana (Research Clinician, University of the Wi ersrand, South Africa)Dr Arjun Chandna (Clinician, Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Professor PhaikYeong Cheah (Ethicist/Pharmacist, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Allen Cheng (Clinician, Monash University, Australia)Professor Leonid Churilov (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Ben Cooper (Epidemiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Cintia Cruz (PaediatricianMahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Bart Currie (Director, HOT NORTH, Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Professor Joshua Davis (Clinician, President of the Australasian Society for Infectious Diseases, Australia)Dr Jeremy Day (Clinician, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Nicholas Day (Clinician,Director of the Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Hakim-Moulay Dehbi (Statistician, University College London, UK)Dr Justin Denholm (Clinician, Researcher, Ethicist, Doherty Ins ute, Australia)DrLennie Derde (Intensivist/Researcher, University Medical Center Utrecht, The Netherlands)Professor Keertan Dheda (Clinician/Researcher, University of Cape Town,& Groote Schuur Hospital, South Africa)Dr Mehul Dhorda (Clinical Researcher, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand) Professor Annane Djillali (Dean of the School of Medicine,Simone Veil Université,France)Professor Arjen Dondorp (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Joseph Doyle (Clinician, Monash University and Burnet Ins ute, Australia)Dr Anthony Etyang (Medical Researcher, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Dr Caterina Fanello (Epidemiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Neil Ferguson (Epidemiologist, Imperial College London, UK)ProfessorAndrew Forbes (Statistician, Monash University, Melbourne, Australia)Professor Oumar Gaye (Clinical Researcher, University Cheikh Anta Diop, Senegal)Dr Ronald Geskus (Head of Statistics at theOxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Dave Glidden(Biostatistics, University of California, USA)Professor Azra Ghani (Epidemiologist, Imperial College London, UK)Prof Philippe Guerin (Medical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Dr. Raph Hamers (Clinician/Trialist, Eijkman-OxfordClinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Peter Horby (Clinical Researcher, Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health, University of Oxford)DrJens-Ulrik Jensen (Clinician/Trialist, University of Copenhagen, Denmark)Dr Hilary Johnstone (Clinical Research Physician, Independent)Professor Kevin Kain (Clinical Researcher, University of Toronto, Canada)Dr Sharon Kaur (Ethicist, University of Malaysia. Dr Evelyne Kestelyn (Head of Clinical Trials, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Dr Tan Le Van (Medical Researcher,Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)ProfessorKatherine Lee (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Laurence Lovat (Clinical Director of Wellcome EPSRC Centre for Interventional & Surgical Sciences, UCL, UK)Professor Kathryn Maitland (Clinician, Imperial College London/KEMRI Wellcome Trust Programme, Kenya)Dr Julie Marsh (Statistician, Telethon Kids Ins ute, Australia)Professor John Marshall (Clinician/Researcher,University of Toronto, Canada)Dr Gary Maartens (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa)Professor Mayfong Mayxay (Clinician/Researcher, Lao-Oxford-Mahosot Hospital-Wellcome Trust Research Unit, Laos)Dr John McKinnon(Clinician/Researcher, Wayne State University, USA)Dr Laura Merson (Clinical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Alistair McLean (Medical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Ramani Moonesinghe(Clinician researcher, UniversityCollege London, UK)Professor Bryan McVerry (Medical researcher, University of Pittsburgh, USA)Professor William Meurer (Clinician/Medical researcher, University of Michigan, USA)Dr Kerryn Moore (Epidemiologist, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, UK)Dr Rephaim Mpofu (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa) Dr Mavuto Mukaka (Statistician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand) Dr SrinivasMurthy (Clinical Researcher, University of British Columbia, Canada)Professor Kim Mulholland (Clinician, London School of Hygiene &Tropical Medicine, UK)Professor Alistair Nichol (Clinician Researcher, Monash University, Australia)Professor Francois Nosten (Clinician, Director of the Shoklo Malaria Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Matthew O’Sullivan (Clinician, Westmead Hospital & University of Sydney, Australia)Professor Piero Olliaro (Clinical Researcher, University of Oxford, UK)ProfessorMarie Onyamboko (Clinical researcher, Kinshasa School of Public Health, DRC)Dr Marcin Osuchowski (Medical researcher, Ludwig Boltzmann Ins ute, Austria)Professor Catherine Orrell (ClinicalPharmacologist, University of Cape Town, South Africa)ProfessorJean Bosco Ouedraogo (Medical Researcher, WWARN, Burkina Faso)DrElaine Pascoe (Statistician, University of Queensland, Australia)Professor David Paterson (Clinician, Director, UQ Centre for Clinical Research, Australia)Dr Kajaal Patel (Paediatrician, Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Dr Tom Parke(Statistician, Berry Consultants, UK)ProfessorPhilippe Parola (Researcher, Aix-Marseille University, France)Professor Paul Newton (Clinician, University Oxford, UK)Professor David Price (Statistician, Doherty Ins ute & University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Richard Price (Clinician,Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Professor Sasithon Pukrittayakamee (Clinician, Mahidol University, Thailand)Dr Ben Saville (Statistician, Berry Consultants & Vanderbilt University)Professor Jason Roberts (Pharmacist/Clinician, The University of Queensland, Australia) Professor Stephen Rogerson (Clinician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Kathy Rowan (Researcher, Director of the ICNARC Clinical Trials Unit, UK)Dr William Schilling (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Anuraj Shankar(Clinician/Trialist, Eijkman-OxfordClinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Sanjib Kumar Sharma (Clinician, Koirala Ins ute of Health Sciences, Nepal)Professor Julie Simpson (Statistician,University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Frank Smithuis (Clinical researcher, Director of the Myanmar Oxford Tropical Research Unit, Myanmar)Dr Tim Spelman (Statistician, Burnet Ins ute, Australia) Dr Kasia Stepniewska (Statistician, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Nathalie Strub Wourgaft (Clinician, Drugs for Neglected Diseases initiative, Switzerland)Dr Aimee Taylor (Statistician, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, USA)DrWalter Taylor (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Guy Thwaites (Clinician, Director of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Tran Tinh Hien (Clinician, Oxford Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Steven Tong (Clinician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Paul Turner (Clinician/Researcher, Director of Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Professor Ross Upshur(Head ofDivision of Clinical Public Health, University of Toronto, Canada)Professor Rogier van Doorn (Clinical Microbiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Sir Nicholas White (Clinician,Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Thomas Williams (Clinician, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor Chris Woods (Researcher, Duke University, USA)Dr Sophie Yacoub (Clinician, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Marcus Zervos(Researcher, Wayne State University School of Medicine.

[ElNono]

List of SignatoriesDr James Watson (Statistician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)1Professor Amanda Adler (Trialist & Clinician, Director of the Diabetes Trials Unit, UK)DrRavi Amaravadi (Researcher,University of Pennsylvania, USA)Dr Ambrose Agweyu (Medical researcher, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor MichaelAvidan(Clinician, Washington University in St Louis, USA)Professor Nicholas Anstey (Clinician, Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Dr Yaseen Arabi (Clinician, King Saud Bin Abdulaziz University for Health Sciences, Saudi Arabia)Dr Elizabeth Ashley (Clinician, Director of the Lao-Oxford-Mahosot Hospital-Wellcome Trust Research Unit, Laos) Professor Kevin Baird (Researcher, Headof the Eijkman-Oxford Clinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Francois Balloux (Researcher, Director of the UCL Genetics Ins ute, UK)Dr Clifford George Banda (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa) Dr Edwine Barasa(Health economist, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya) Professor Karen Barnes (Clinical Pharmacology, University of Cape Town, South Africa)Professor David Boulware (Researcher& Triallist, University of Minnesota, USA)Professor Buddha Basnyat (Clinician, Head of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit -Nepal, Nepal)Professor Philip Bejon (Medical researcher, Director of the KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor Mohammad Asim Beg(Clinician/Researcher, Aga Khan University,Pakistan)Professor Emmanuel Bottieau (Clinician, Ins ute of Tropical Medicine, Antwerp, Belgium)Dr Sabine Braat (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Frank Brunkhorst (Clinician, Jena University Hospital, Germany)Dr Todd Campbell Lee (Researcher, McGill University, Canada)Professor Caroline Buckee (Epidemiologist, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA)Dr James Callery (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor John Carlin (Statistician, University of Melbourne & Murdoch Children’s Research Ins ute, Australia)Dr Nomathemba Chandiwana (Research Clinician, University of the Wi ersrand, South Africa)Dr Arjun Chandna (Clinician, Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Professor PhaikYeong Cheah (Ethicist/Pharmacist, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Allen Cheng (Clinician, Monash University, Australia)Professor Leonid Churilov (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Ben Cooper (Epidemiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Cintia Cruz (PaediatricianMahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Bart Currie (Director, HOT NORTH, Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Professor Joshua Davis (Clinician, President of the Australasian Society for Infectious Diseases, Australia)Dr Jeremy Day (Clinician, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Nicholas Day (Clinician,Director of the Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Hakim-Moulay Dehbi (Statistician, University College London, UK)Dr Justin Denholm (Clinician, Researcher, Ethicist, Doherty Ins ute, Australia)DrLennie Derde (Intensivist/Researcher, University Medical Center Utrecht, The Netherlands)Professor Keertan Dheda (Clinician/Researcher, University of Cape Town,& Groote Schuur Hospital, South Africa)Dr Mehul Dhorda (Clinical Researcher, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand) Professor Annane Djillali (Dean of the School of Medicine,Simone Veil Université,France)Professor Arjen Dondorp (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Joseph Doyle (Clinician, Monash University and Burnet Ins ute, Australia)Dr Anthony Etyang (Medical Researcher, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Dr Caterina Fanello (Epidemiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Neil Ferguson (Epidemiologist, Imperial College London, UK)ProfessorAndrew Forbes (Statistician, Monash University, Melbourne, Australia)Professor Oumar Gaye (Clinical Researcher, University Cheikh Anta Diop, Senegal)Dr Ronald Geskus (Head of Statistics at theOxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Dave Glidden(Biostatistics, University of California, USA)Professor Azra Ghani (Epidemiologist, Imperial College London, UK)Prof Philippe Guerin (Medical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Dr. Raph Hamers (Clinician/Trialist, Eijkman-OxfordClinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Peter Horby (Clinical Researcher, Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health, University of Oxford)DrJens-Ulrik Jensen (Clinician/Trialist, University of Copenhagen, Denmark)Dr Hilary Johnstone (Clinical Research Physician, Independent)Professor Kevin Kain (Clinical Researcher, University of Toronto, Canada)Dr Sharon Kaur (Ethicist, University of Malaysia. Dr Evelyne Kestelyn (Head of Clinical Trials, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Dr Tan Le Van (Medical Researcher,Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)ProfessorKatherine Lee (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Laurence Lovat (Clinical Director of Wellcome EPSRC Centre for Interventional & Surgical Sciences, UCL, UK)Professor Kathryn Maitland (Clinician, Imperial College London/KEMRI Wellcome Trust Programme, Kenya)Dr Julie Marsh (Statistician, Telethon Kids Ins ute, Australia)Professor John Marshall (Clinician/Researcher,University of Toronto, Canada)Dr Gary Maartens (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa)Professor Mayfong Mayxay (Clinician/Researcher, Lao-Oxford-Mahosot Hospital-Wellcome Trust Research Unit, Laos)Dr John McKinnon(Clinician/Researcher, Wayne State University, USA)Dr Laura Merson (Clinical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Alistair McLean (Medical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Ramani Moonesinghe(Clinician researcher, UniversityCollege London, UK)Professor Bryan McVerry (Medical researcher, University of Pittsburgh, USA)Professor William Meurer (Clinician/Medical researcher, University of Michigan, USA)Dr Kerryn Moore (Epidemiologist, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, UK)Dr Rephaim Mpofu (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa) Dr Mavuto Mukaka (Statistician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand) Dr SrinivasMurthy (Clinical Researcher, University of British Columbia, Canada)Professor Kim Mulholland (Clinician, London School of Hygiene &Tropical Medicine, UK)Professor Alistair Nichol (Clinician Researcher, Monash University, Australia)Professor Francois Nosten (Clinician, Director of the Shoklo Malaria Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Matthew O’Sullivan (Clinician, Westmead Hospital & University of Sydney, Australia)Professor Piero Olliaro (Clinical Researcher, University of Oxford, UK)ProfessorMarie Onyamboko (Clinical researcher, Kinshasa School of Public Health, DRC)Dr Marcin Osuchowski (Medical researcher, Ludwig Boltzmann Ins ute, Austria)Professor Catherine Orrell (ClinicalPharmacologist, University of Cape Town, South Africa)ProfessorJean Bosco Ouedraogo (Medical Researcher, WWARN, Burkina Faso)DrElaine Pascoe (Statistician, University of Queensland, Australia)Professor David Paterson (Clinician, Director, UQ Centre for Clinical Research, Australia)Dr Kajaal Patel (Paediatrician, Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Dr Tom Parke(Statistician, Berry Consultants, UK)ProfessorPhilippe Parola (Researcher, Aix-Marseille University, France)Professor Paul Newton (Clinician, University Oxford, UK)Professor David Price (Statistician, Doherty Ins ute & University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Richard Price (Clinician,Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Professor Sasithon Pukrittayakamee (Clinician, Mahidol University, Thailand)Dr Ben Saville (Statistician, Berry Consultants & Vanderbilt University)Professor Jason Roberts (Pharmacist/Clinician, The University of Queensland, Australia) Professor Stephen Rogerson (Clinician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Kathy Rowan (Researcher, Director of the ICNARC Clinical Trials Unit, UK)Dr William Schilling (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Anuraj Shankar(Clinician/Trialist, Eijkman-OxfordClinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Sanjib Kumar Sharma (Clinician, Koirala Ins ute of Health Sciences, Nepal)Professor Julie Simpson (Statistician,University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Frank Smithuis (Clinical researcher, Director of the Myanmar Oxford Tropical Research Unit, Myanmar)Dr Tim Spelman (Statistician, Burnet Ins ute, Australia) Dr Kasia Stepniewska (Statistician, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Nathalie Strub Wourgaft (Clinician, Drugs for Neglected Diseases initiative, Switzerland)Dr Aimee Taylor (Statistician, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, USA)DrWalter Taylor (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Guy Thwaites (Clinician, Director of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Tran Tinh Hien (Clinician, Oxford Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Steven Tong (Clinician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Paul Turner (Clinician/Researcher, Director of Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Professor Ross Upshur(Head ofDivision of Clinical Public Health, University of Toronto, Canada)Professor Rogier van Doorn (Clinical Microbiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Sir Nicholas White (Clinician,Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Thomas Williams (Clinician, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor Chris Woods (Researcher, Duke University, USA)Dr Sophie Yacoub (Clinician, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Marcus Zervos(Researcher, Wayne State University School of Medicine.

I saw the letter. I'll admit my theory was INCORRECT

Will you admit the letter doesn't claim the study is bunk?

[RandomGuy]

Wait, so you have to decide which information is true by sifting through until you find something you agree with? That's what people here do everyday.. RG keeps dropping articles from confirmation bias hits on his echo chamber radar.

It is possible to advocate for any given view point by only posting information that does not support that viewpoint? Yes or no.

Can you go back and your mother some more yes or no?

Instant surrender. I accept, but am not going to let you off the hook.

Let's be honest here, and try a good faith answer.

No, it is not possible to advocate for any given view point by only posting information that does not support that view point.

I post things that support my viewpoint to make a good case for my views. Occasionally they get challenged, and I am provided with better information and then have an opportunity to change my mind, therefore overcoming my own confirmation bias. I actively work to not be in any kind of echo chamber.

You, on the other hand, go out of your way to avoid anything that might question your beliefs. Deflections like your surrender here, or simple personal attacks, often accompanied by strawman lies.

Which of us is in an echo chamber? smh

[TSA]

I saw the letter. I'll admit my theory was INCORRECT

Will you admit the letter doesn't claim the study is bunk?

I will not admit to something I never claimed.

I posted the letter to mock you asking what was wrong with the study.

[RandomGuy]

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

4th time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no.

Why are you asking about what other people find important? Important for what? Are you trying to establish some moral superiority over your opponent here by setting up irrelevant, personal opinion questions?

For 's sake, can't you use words like "required" or "necessary" instead of "important"?

[from passage about how to identify liars]
... Finally, ..increased evasiveness, ... liars tend to avoid answering the question completely, perhaps by switching topics or by asking a question of their own.

[ElNono]

I will not admit to something I never claimed.

I posted the letter to mock you asking what was wrong with the study.

You claimed the study was bunk (multiple times), and neither of the two things you posted to support that contention make that claim themselves.

Will you admit you jumped the gun and that there's no current claims that the study is bunk? It's ok, we already know the answer.

[RandomGuy]

You posted a bunk study, it happens to everyone now and then. Take the L and apologize to Darrin and move on.

Which statement in that latter rebuts any claim made by the study?

[ElNono]

Anyways, I'll be happy to honor my commitment to apologize if the study is retracted, and the drug is deemed a viable treatment. Again, this isn't political to me, I want as much as everybody else to find a safe and sound treatment for the disease.

I do find irresponsible peddling snake oil that's ineffective and dangerous because muh politics. Same thing I told SnakeBoy a while ago.

[TSA]

Which statement in that latter rebuts any claim made by the study?

I never claimed any statement in that letter rebuts any claim made in that study. Now run along.

[TSA]

You claimed the study was bunk (multiple times), and neither of the two things you posted to support that contention make that claim themselves.

Will you admit you jumped the gun and that there's no current claims that the study is bunk? It's ok, we already know the answer.

The data was fubar and the study is bunk. I stand by that.

[TSA]

[DMC]

You and a few others here like to move the goalposts every other response. You keep trying to lodge a "w" from the discussion, and you abandon your prior statements in favor of new ones in a "ya but" fashion. No one is obligated to follow your descent into oblivion. Give up your original statements then move on to other ones, don't just pretend you never made such claims.

Instant surrender. I accept, but am not going to let you off the hook.

Let's be honest here, and try a good faith answer.

No, it is not possible to advocate for any given view point by only posting information that does not support that view point.

I post things that support my viewpoint to make a good case for my views. Occasionally they get challenged, and I am provided with better information and then have an opportunity to change my mind, therefore overcoming my own confirmation bias. I actively work to not be in any kind of echo chamber.

You, on the other hand, go out of your way to avoid anything that might question your beliefs. Deflections like your surrender here, or simple personal attacks, often accompanied by strawman lies.

Which of us is in an echo chamber? smh

That's a lot of yapping to say you're biased and you look for confirmation for your bias through the sites you visit, and have zero ing clue about real news. You should stop commenting on it like you're some oracle of objectivity.

[Blake]

That's a lot of yapping to say you're biased and you look for confirmation for your bias through the sites you visit, and have zero ing clue about real news. You should stop commenting on it like you're some oracle of objectivity.

That's rich

[DMC]

Your flailing attempt at connecting unrelated things...

It's either necessary or it's not. "Important" is a value judgement.

[ElNono]

The data was fubar and the study is bunk. I stand by that.

Are you standing on that based on a gut feeling, or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader, tbh?