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  1. #17351
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    bwahahahhahaha wrong about the virus.
    <br>
    <br>
    Wait, so you have to decide which information is true by sifting through until you find something you agree with? That's what people here do everyday. It's why Boutons posts relentlessly, for decades, no one reads, and why RG keeps dropping articles from confirmation bias hits on his echo chamber radar. <br>
    <br>
    If you already know the truth, why do you go looking for it? You either want updated stats or the opinions of experts. While the stats are supposed to be factual, gathering methods are not consistent and tend to be driven by political and/or financial motives. The opinions of experts seem to change daily. So you're getting a snapshot of a chaotic system and as Heisenberg said, you just don't know the truth (something like that, I didn't see every episode).
    <br>
    <br>
    No I sift through articles for facts backed up by numerous sources that make sense.<br>
    Especially if I know the history of the situation. And yes its better to give it time as more evidence comes in.<br>
    <br>
    And quit with the horrible analogies with physics you dont even understand.<br><br>addendum: Tell us more about models in science again for another laugher.<br>
    <br>
    Its quite sad and futile for you, but I love the way you defend the worst conspira posters on the board.<br>
    Keep at it old man, you make an easy target.<br>
    <br>
    And again you forgot you used MY fact to refute RG and you are stupid enough to bring it up again.<br>
    Think about that fact and relate that to Heisenberg and a snapshot, see how well that works for you fat head.

    And tell us more about modeling in science for another laugher.
    Last edited by pgardn; 05-28-2020 at 01:44 PM.

  2. #17352
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Study of 96,000 Covid-19 Patients Finds Hydroxychloroquine Increased Their Risk of Dying

    "The drug US President Donald Trump said he was taking to ward off Covid-19 actually increases the risk of patients with the disease dying from it," reports the BBC, citing a new study published Friday in the Lancet.

    "The study said there were no benefits to treating patients with the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine..."
    Hydroxychloroquine is safe for malaria, and conditions like lupus or arthritis, but no clinical trials have recommended the use of hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus. The Lancet study involved 96,000 coronavirus patients, nearly 15,000 of whom were given hydroxychloroquine — or a related form chloroquine — either alone or with an antibiotic.

    The study found that the patients were more likely to die in hospital and develop heart rhythm complications than other Covid patients in a comparison group. The death rates of the treated groups were: hydroxychloroquine 18%; chloroquine 16.4%; control group 9%. Those treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine in combination with antibiotics had an even higher death rate.

    The researchers warned that hydroxychloroquine should not be used outside of clinical trials.

    The BBC also reports that a separate trial involving over 40,000 healthcare workers around the world is now testing whether hydroxychloroquine could prevent infection.

    ---

    DarrinS
    "safe" placebo
    oops


  3. #17353
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    lol every study is a database query. that's what science based on facts is all about.
    lol attacking the people, not the facts

    It was published as a study:
    https://www.thelancet.com/action/sho...2820%2931180-6

    what's flawed about that study? methodology is included there.

  4. #17354
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    oops

    hmm, the article doesn't say what the tweet claims... did you read the article?

  5. #17355
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    premature ball ing per par

  6. #17356
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Let me guess, you didn't read the article... gonna tell you the same thing I told SnakeBoy, if you find something wrong with the data, that's totally legit.

    I didn't write the study, I don't have a stake in the outcome, and I certainly would love to have a working therapeutic treatment.

  7. #17357
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    hmm, the article doesn't say what the tweet claims... did you read the article?
    I did. Study was bunk. Apologize to Darrin.

    “Dr Allen Cheng, an epidemiologist and infectious disease doctor with Alfred Health in Melbourne, said the Australian hospitals involved in the study should be named. He said he had never heard of Surgisphere, and no one from his hospital, The Alfred, had provided Surgisphere with data.”

    “In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.”

  8. #17358
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Let me guess, you didn't read the article... gonna tell you the same thing I told SnakeBoy, if you find something wrong with the data, that's totally legit.

    I didn't write the study, I don't have a stake in the outcome, and I certainly would love to have a working therapeutic treatment.
    No you didn’t write the study but you did have a stake in trying to dunk on Darrin.

    what’s flawed about that study?

  9. #17359
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I did. Study was bunk. Apologize to Darrin.

    “Dr Allen Cheng, an epidemiologist and infectious disease doctor with Alfred Health in Melbourne, said the Australian hospitals involved in the study should be named. He said he had never heard of Surgisphere, and no one from his hospital, The Alfred, had provided Surgisphere with data.”

    “In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.”
    He stressed that even if the paper proved to be problematic, it did not mean hydroxychloroquine was safe or effective in treating Covid-19. No strong studies to date have shown the drug is effective. Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have potentially severe and even deadly side effects if used inappropriately, including heart failure and toxicity. Other studies have found the drug is associated with higher mortality when given to severely unwell Covid-19 patients.

    In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.

    “This requirement allows us to only maintain collaborations with top-tier ins utions that are supported by the level of data-integrity and sophistication required for such work,” the statement said. “Naturally, this leads to the inclusion of ins utions that have a tertiary care level of practice and provide quality healthcare that is relatively genous around the world. As with most corporations, the access to individual hospital data is strictly governed. Our data use agreements do not allow us to make this data public.”

    Scientists have reiterated the need to wait for the results from rigorous randomised control trials, considered the gold standard of science, and the Australian Department of Health has warned the drug should not be given to patients other than in clinical trials.

    Cheng said it would be a mistake to stop strong, well-designed clinical trials examining the drug because of questionable data. The Lancet study findings have prompted the leaders of an Australian hydroxychloroquine trial, known as the Ascot trial, to review the future of their study. The outcome of that review has not yet been announced.


    emphasis mine.

  10. #17360
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

    4th time
    Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no.
    Why are you asking about what other people find important? Important for what? Are you trying to establish some moral superiority over your opponent here by setting up irrelevant, personal opinion questions?

    For 's sake, can't you use words like "required" or "necessary" instead of "important"?

  11. #17361
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    No you didn’t write the study but you did have a stake in trying to dunk on Darrin.
    lol I called him out on it because he's been peddling that thing with multiple studies pointing out it was ineffective or downright dangerous.

    You should go back and read my back and forth with SnakeBoy about it

    I'll completely own and apologize to him if this study turns out to be bunk, which is clearly not at this time.

  12. #17362
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    He stressed that even if the paper proved to be problematic, it did not mean hydroxychloroquine was safe or effective in treating Covid-19. No strong studies to date have shown the drug is effective. Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have potentially severe and even deadly side effects if used inappropriately, including heart failure and toxicity. Other studies have found the drug is associated with higher mortality when given to severely unwell Covid-19 patients.

    In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.

    “This requirement allows us to only maintain collaborations with top-tier ins utions that are supported by the level of data-integrity and sophistication required for such work,” the statement said. “Naturally, this leads to the inclusion of ins utions that have a tertiary care level of practice and provide quality healthcare that is relatively genous around the world. As with most corporations, the access to individual hospital data is strictly governed. Our data use agreements do not allow us to make this data public.”

    Scientists have reiterated the need to wait for the results from rigorous randomised control trials, considered the gold standard of science, and the Australian Department of Health has warned the drug should not be given to patients other than in clinical trials.

    Cheng said it would be a mistake to stop strong, well-designed clinical trials examining the drug because of questionable data. The Lancet study findings have prompted the leaders of an Australian hydroxychloroquine trial, known as the Ascot trial, to review the future of their study. The outcome of that review has not yet been announced.


    emphasis mine.
    Just a side note: Does it matter that an organization that you might suspect as having faulty data "stands beside" it? Of course they do. Circular reasoning to suggest that somehow helps validate it.

  13. #17363
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    He stressed that even if the paper proved to be problematic, it did not mean hydroxychloroquine was safe or effective in treating Covid-19. No strong studies to date have shown the drug is effective. Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have potentially severe and even deadly side effects if used inappropriately, including heart failure and toxicity. Other studies have found the drug is associated with higher mortality when given to severely unwell Covid-19 patients.

    In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.

    “This requirement allows us to only maintain collaborations with top-tier ins utions that are supported by the level of data-integrity and sophistication required for such work,” the statement said. “Naturally, this leads to the inclusion of ins utions that have a tertiary care level of practice and provide quality healthcare that is relatively genous around the world. As with most corporations, the access to individual hospital data is strictly governed. Our data use agreements do not allow us to make this data public.”

    Scientists have reiterated the need to wait for the results from rigorous randomised control trials, considered the gold standard of science, and the Australian Department of Health has warned the drug should not be given to patients other than in clinical trials.

    Cheng said it would be a mistake to stop strong, well-designed clinical trials examining the drug because of questionable data. The Lancet study findings have prompted the leaders of an Australian hydroxychloroquine trial, known as the Ascot trial, to review the future of their study. The outcome of that review has not yet been announced.


    emphasis mine.
    https://defyccc.com/surgisphere-covi...-deadly-fraud/

    surgisphere


  14. #17364
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Just a side note: Does it matter that an organization that you might suspect as having faulty data "stands beside" it? Of course they do. Circular reasoning to suggest that somehow helps validate it.
    It does in that if there's some discrepancy, does it point to those discrepancies being an outlier, like in most every data set, or is the whole thing bunk? And that's what Chen questions, but obviously, cannot be answered if you don't have the data.

    The data is not going to come out, the question here is if there's enough discrepancies to asses the data is wrong. That shouldn't be too difficult to asses.

    Then, again, this is not the only study reaching similar conclusions, just the largest.

  15. #17365
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    lol I called him out on it because he's been peddling that thing with multiple studies pointing out it was ineffective or downright dangerous.

    You should go back and read my back and forth with SnakeBoy about it

    I'll completely own and apologize to him if this study turns out to be bunk, which is clearly not at this time.
    Turns out to be?

  16. #17366
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I did. Study was bunk. Apologize to Darrin.

    “Dr Allen Cheng, an epidemiologist and infectious disease doctor with Alfred Health in Melbourne, said the Australian hospitals involved in the study should be named. He said he had never heard of Surgisphere, and no one from his hospital, The Alfred, had provided Surgisphere with data.”

    “In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.”
    i'd still wait for the paper's authors to come out with either a statement of clarification or revisions, if necessary, than calling the entire study bunk because some of the data used was potentially faulty. there's no way to determine with the information available to us if any necessary revisions would alter the findings/conclusions

    The Lancet told Guardian Australia: “We have asked the authors for clarifications, we know that they are investigating urgently, and we await their reply.” The lead author of the study, Dr Mandeep Mehra, said he had contacted Surgisphere, the company that provided the data, to reconcile the discrepancies with “the utmost urgency”. Surgisphere is described as a healthcare data analytics and medical education company.

    In a statement, Surgisphere founder Dr Sapan Desai, also an author on the Lancet paper, said a hospital from Asia had accidentally been included in the Australian data.

    “We have reviewed our Surgisphere database and discovered that a new hospital that joined the registry on April 1, and self-designated as belonging to the Australasia continental designation,” the spokesman said. “In reviewing the data from each of the hospitals in the registry, we noted that this hospital had a nearly 100% composition of Asian race and a relatively high use of chloroquine compared to non-use in Australia. This hospital should have more appropriately been assigned to the Asian continental designation.”

    He said the error did not change the overall study findings. It did mean that the Australian data in the paper would be revised to four hospitals and 63 deaths,.

  17. #17367
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    defyccc.com

    Give me a scientific paper that says the study is bunk, not a political blog

  18. #17368
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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  19. #17369
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Turns out to be?
    lol yes, you didn't debunk anything

  20. #17370
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Trump s doubling down on stupid, not expected at all

  21. #17371
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    defyccc.com

    Give me a scientific paper that says the study is bunk, not a political blog
    You posted a bunk study, it happens to everyone now and then. Take the L and apologize to Darrin and move on.

  22. #17372
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    open letter, that's showing them

  23. #17373
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    i'd still wait for the paper's authors to come out with either a statement of clarification or revisions, if necessary, than calling the entire study bunk because some of the data used was potentially faulty. there's no way to determine with the information available to us if any necessary revisions would alter the findings/conclusions

    The Lancet told Guardian Australia: “We have asked the authors for clarifications, we know that they are investigating urgently, and we await their reply.” The lead author of the study, Dr Mandeep Mehra, said he had contacted Surgisphere, the company that provided the data, to reconcile the discrepancies with “the utmost urgency”. Surgisphere is described as a healthcare data analytics and medical education company.

    In a statement, Surgisphere founder Dr Sapan Desai, also an author on the Lancet paper, said a hospital from Asia had accidentally been included in the Australian data.

    “We have reviewed our Surgisphere database and discovered that a new hospital that joined the registry on April 1, and self-designated as belonging to the Australasia continental designation,” the spokesman said. “In reviewing the data from each of the hospitals in the registry, we noted that this hospital had a nearly 100% composition of Asian race and a relatively high use of chloroquine compared to non-use in Australia. This hospital should have more appropriately been assigned to the Asian continental designation.”

    He said the error did not change the overall study findings. It did mean that the Australian data in the paper would be revised to four hospitals and 63 deaths,.
    Nono doesn’t need you to semenshield for him

  24. #17374
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    You posted a bunk study, it happens to everyone now and then. Take the L and apologize to Darrin and move on.
    Nope, I posted a published study that's not been retracted nor debunked. I'll take the L and apologize when it is.

    In the meantime, I'm going to bask in the glory of my W.

  25. #17375
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Nono doesn’t need you to semenshield for him
    He's just telling you you're wrong. Will you own up to it?

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