1. #26276
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    Disney now requiring masks
    Funny I was at Disney Springs yesterday right at time of Emergency Declaration. Only 1/2 staff were wearing masks. They got caught with pants down.

  2. #26277
    Believe. Adam Lambert's Avatar
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    So far it seems same.

    Vaccine immunity seems to wane greatly at 6 months so does natural antibody immunity
    Cool, and what happens during that six months to a population gaining herd immunity by infection vs. by vaccine? Try not to think too hard.

  3. #26278
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    That was meant for Chump

    Roadhouse > whataburger
    How could I eat inside when the lobby was closed, genius?

    Explain.

  4. #26279
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    Cool, and what happens during that six months to a population gaining herd immunity by infection vs. by vaccine? Try not to think too hard.
    Thats not herd immunity. Its just temporary immunity that I always said sick and old can definitely use.

    It was never herd immunity especially since now we know the vaccinated still communicated.as much or more virus than unvacvinated.

  5. #26280
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    The goal is that vaccinated people or people with antibodies from actually having the virus, kill the infection quicker and more efficiently than people that do not, and hopefully that slows down possible mutations.
    Too long to copy paste here...much more at the link. Curious to hear your thoughts on his theory.

    ==============================================

    The current expansion in prevalence of infectious Sars-CoV-2 variants is highly problematic because it erodes natural Ab-based, variant-nonspecific immunity in the non-vaccinated part of the population. The high infectivity rate that results from this expansion not only further enhances the expansion of these variants but may also drive natural selection of viral variants that are featured by an even higher level of infectiousness. Erosion, therefore, of natural Ab-based, variant-nonspecific immunity promotes breeding and transmission of more infectious viral variants in the non-vaccinated part of the population. On the other hand, mass vaccination promotes natural selection of increasingly vaccine immunity (VI)-escaping variants in the vaccinated part of the population. Taken together, mass vaccination conducted on a background of high infectivity rates enables more infectious, increasingly VI-escaping variants to expand in prevalence. This evolution inevitably results in inclining morbidity rates in both, the non-vaccinated and vaccinated population and precipitates the emergence of circulating viral variants that will eventually fully resist vaccine-mediated immunity (VMI). This is why mass vaccination campaigns should not be conducted during a pandemic of a highly mutable virus, let alone during a pandemic of more infectious variants (unless transmission-blocking vaccines are used!). It is critical to understand that a rapid decline in viral infectivity rates that is not achieved by natural infection but merely results from expedited mass vaccination campaigns will only delay abrupt propagation of emerging, fully vaccine-resistant viral variants and hence, only delay the occurrence of a high wave of morbidity and mortality. In contrast, mass vaccination campaigns that are progressing more slowly, especially when conducted on a background of relatively low infectious pressure, will result in a steadily growing propagation of increasingly VI-escaping variants and hence, cause a wave of morbidity and mortality that continues to grow bigger and larger as more and more people become vaccinated. It’s only when fully vaccine-resistant viral variants will become dominant that this wave will start to peak.

    To prevent more detrimental consequences of the ongoing evolution of Sars-CoV-2, we have no choice but to mitigate erosion of natural, Coronavirus (CoV)-nonspecific immunity in non-vaccinated individuals and exertion of strong immune selection pressure on immunodominant vaccinal epitopes in vaccinated individuals. This is to say that we must stop mass vaccination and lower viral infectivity rates immediately. Continued mass vaccination will only lead to a further increase in morbidity and hospitalization rates, which will subsequently culminate in a huge case fatality wave when expansion of more infectious, vaccine-resistant variants will explode.

    A rapid and substantial decrease in viral infectivity rates could be achieved by a short-term course of large-scale antiviral chemoprophylaxis (suitable candidates have already been identified) and adequate infection prevention measures while early treatment of symptomatically infected subjects and implementation of a healthy eating (including certain dietary supplements) and lifestyle (including exercise!) plan would further contribute to building herd immunity. Although this strategy is unlikely to eradicate the virus, it should allow forcing the pandemic into transitioning to a kind of ‘artificial’endemicity. Of course, as asymptomatic reservoirs (asymptomatically infected vaccinated or non-vaccinated humans or even animals) would remain, mass gatherings would still need to be avoided in the future and large-scale chemoprophylaxis campaigns using antiviral drugs would likely need to be repeated at specific time intervals and for as long as no sterilizing immune intervention is available. The action plan proposed above should immediately be implemented: Once the virus will become entirely resistant to the current vaccines, the above-mentioned measures will no longer be able to prevent a dramatic rise in casualties, unless campaigns of antiviral chemoprophylaxis are conducted worldwide and on a permanent basis.

    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/p...is-toning-down


    Geert Vanden Bossche received his DVM from the University of Ghent, Belgium, and his PhD degree in Virology from the University of Hohenheim, Germany. He held adjunct faculty appointments at universities in Belgium and Germany. After his career in Academia, Geert joined several vaccine companies (GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines, Solvay Biologicals) to serve various roles in vaccine R&D as well as in late vaccine development. Geert then moved on to join the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Discovery team in Seattle (USA) as Senior Program Officer; he then worked with the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization (GAVI) in Geneva as Senior Ebola Program Manager. At GAVI he tracked efforts to develop an Ebola vaccine. He also represented GAVI in fora with other partners, including WHO, to review progress on the fight against Ebola and to build plans for global pandemic preparedness. Back in 2015, Geert scrutinized and questioned the safety of the Ebola vaccine that was used in ring vaccination trials conducted by WHO in Guinea. His critical scientific analysis and report on the data published by WHO in the Lancet in 2015 was sent to all international health and regulatory authorities involved in the Ebola vaccination program. After working for GAVI, Geert joined the German Center for Infection Research in Cologne as Head of the Vaccine Development Office. He is at present primarily serving as a Biotech/ Vaccine consultant while also conducting his own research on Natural Killer cell-based vaccines.

  6. #26281
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    What are the chemo prophylaxis candidates and what are their side effects and what are their cost.?

    How to lower viral infectivity rates now?

  7. #26282
    Believe. Adam Lambert's Avatar
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    Thats not herd immunity. Its just temporary immunity that I always said sick and old can definitely use.

    It was never herd immunity especially since now we know the vaccinated still communicated.as much or more virus than unvacvinated.
    Outside of semantics, what are the key differences in overall impact to a society when a population gains temporary resistance/immunity to a virus through infection vs. through a vaccine?

  8. #26283
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    Outside of semantics, what are the key differences in overall impact to a society when a population gains temporary resistance/immunity to a virus through infection vs. through a vaccine?
    Not many besides advantages to old/sick who should be vaxed tbqh

    No advantages to young/healthy

  9. #26284
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    mini-roundup of counterpoints to Van den Bossche's manifesto.

    tl;dr

    -- speculative, no evidence offered for his various claims in the manifesto
    -- variants of concern, including Delta, emerged before vaccination was widespread
    -- "leaky" vaccines can be swiftly reformulated
    -- Marek's disease shows that vaccines with a marginal effect on transmission can still significantly reduce the incidence of disease; around 99% in the case of Marek's disease
    -- sacrifices public safety to efficacy
    -- schoolboy howlers
    -- the urgency of Dr Van Den Bossche's unpublished scientific hunch is such that there is no time to do the science, mass vaccination must be suspended immediately; but he has no ready solution, just more speculation (coindentally, about a new type of vaccine he is involved in making, but hasn't shared with other scientists yet.)
    -- hasn't published a research paper since 1995




    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...vanden-bossche
    https://www.deplatformdisease.com/bl...ossches-claims
    Last edited by Winehole23; 07-29-2021 at 11:12 AM.

  10. #26285
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    is TSA reading Del Bigtree and RFK Jr., or cribbing from ute randos?

  11. #26286
    Believe. Adam Lambert's Avatar
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    Not many besides advantages to old/sick who should be vaxed tbqh

    No advantages to young/healthy
    I said "impact to a society" and you keep focusing on the individuals.

    I'm young and healthy and I was very impacted by the spread of infection in 2020, even though I never got COVID.

  12. #26287
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Too long to copy paste here...much more at the link. Curious to hear your thoughts on his theory.

    ==============================================

    The current expansion in prevalence of infectious Sars-CoV-2 variants is highly problematic because it erodes natural Ab-based, variant-nonspecific immunity in the non-vaccinated part of the population. The high infectivity rate that results from this expansion not only further enhances the expansion of these variants but may also drive natural selection of viral variants that are featured by an even higher level of infectiousness. Erosion, therefore, of natural Ab-based, variant-nonspecific immunity promotes breeding and transmission of more infectious viral variants in the non-vaccinated part of the population. On the other hand, mass vaccination promotes natural selection of increasingly vaccine immunity (VI)-escaping variants in the vaccinated part of the population. Taken together, mass vaccination conducted on a background of high infectivity rates enables more infectious, increasingly VI-escaping variants to expand in prevalence. This evolution inevitably results in inclining morbidity rates in both, the non-vaccinated and vaccinated population and precipitates the emergence of circulating viral variants that will eventually fully resist vaccine-mediated immunity (VMI). This is why mass vaccination campaigns should not be conducted during a pandemic of a highly mutable virus, let alone during a pandemic of more infectious variants (unless transmission-blocking vaccines are used!). It is critical to understand that a rapid decline in viral infectivity rates that is not achieved by natural infection but merely results from expedited mass vaccination campaigns will only delay abrupt propagation of emerging, fully vaccine-resistant viral variants and hence, only delay the occurrence of a high wave of morbidity and mortality. In contrast, mass vaccination campaigns that are progressing more slowly, especially when conducted on a background of relatively low infectious pressure, will result in a steadily growing propagation of increasingly VI-escaping variants and hence, cause a wave of morbidity and mortality that continues to grow bigger and larger as more and more people become vaccinated. It’s only when fully vaccine-resistant viral variants will become dominant that this wave will start to peak.

    To prevent more detrimental consequences of the ongoing evolution of Sars-CoV-2, we have no choice but to mitigate erosion of natural, Coronavirus (CoV)-nonspecific immunity in non-vaccinated individuals and exertion of strong immune selection pressure on immunodominant vaccinal epitopes in vaccinated individuals. This is to say that we must stop mass vaccination and lower viral infectivity rates immediately. Continued mass vaccination will only lead to a further increase in morbidity and hospitalization rates, which will subsequently culminate in a huge case fatality wave when expansion of more infectious, vaccine-resistant variants will explode.

    A rapid and substantial decrease in viral infectivity rates could be achieved by a short-term course of large-scale antiviral chemoprophylaxis (suitable candidates have already been identified) and adequate infection prevention measures while early treatment of symptomatically infected subjects and implementation of a healthy eating (including certain dietary supplements) and lifestyle (including exercise!) plan would further contribute to building herd immunity. Although this strategy is unlikely to eradicate the virus, it should allow forcing the pandemic into transitioning to a kind of ‘artificial’endemicity. Of course, as asymptomatic reservoirs (asymptomatically infected vaccinated or non-vaccinated humans or even animals) would remain, mass gatherings would still need to be avoided in the future and large-scale chemoprophylaxis campaigns using antiviral drugs would likely need to be repeated at specific time intervals and for as long as no sterilizing immune intervention is available. The action plan proposed above should immediately be implemented: Once the virus will become entirely resistant to the current vaccines, the above-mentioned measures will no longer be able to prevent a dramatic rise in casualties, unless campaigns of antiviral chemoprophylaxis are conducted worldwide and on a permanent basis.

    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/p...is-toning-down




    Geert Vanden Bossche received his DVM from the University of Ghent, Belgium, and his PhD degree in Virology from the University of Hohenheim, Germany. He held adjunct faculty appointments at universities in Belgium and Germany. After his career in Academia, Geert joined several vaccine companies (GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines, Solvay Biologicals) to serve various roles in vaccine R&D as well as in late vaccine development. Geert then moved on to join the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Discovery team in Seattle (USA) as Senior Program Officer; he then worked with the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization (GAVI) in Geneva as Senior Ebola Program Manager. At GAVI he tracked efforts to develop an Ebola vaccine. He also represented GAVI in fora with other partners, including WHO, to review progress on the fight against Ebola and to build plans for global pandemic preparedness. Back in 2015, Geert scrutinized and questioned the safety of the Ebola vaccine that was used in ring vaccination trials conducted by WHO in Guinea. His critical scientific analysis and report on the data published by WHO in the Lancet in 2015 was sent to all international health and regulatory authorities involved in the Ebola vaccination program. After working for GAVI, Geert joined the German Center for Infection Research in Cologne as Head of the Vaccine Development Office. He is at present primarily serving as a Biotech/ Vaccine consultant while also conducting his own research on Natural Killer cell-based vaccines.
    The above has absolutely gigantic holes in the reasoning.


    First bolded. Yes you might expect this to a happen. But you might also expect the infection is MUCH less serious. People pass viruses around ALL the time that are basically asymptomatic and we dont worry a bit about them. They are evolutionary very light piggy back riders. WE PASS viral dna along to each our kids, viral dna sequences piggy back our dna in sex cells and its just not a problem. We have many viral DNA sequences with in our own DNA that is in EVERY cell in our body that has DNA.
    Its getting to the point we now people are ONLY worried about transmission and not about SYMPTOMs. Its understandable because the symptoms of this variant are bad, but not necessarily BECAUSE its easily transmitted.

    2nd bolded.
    Complete misunderstanding of probability and mutations. The more people infected, the more chance for mutations and variants arise. If we vaccinate a large portion of the population, the chances for variation GOES down. This IS part of the reason the goal is max vaccination like with polio and small pox. We also do this with children with Diptheria, Pertusis, Tetanus... and its WORKED. Its mandatory to get into school.

    3rd bolded: Relies on the first two, false.

    I dont even have time to go through the rest now. If this article was peer reviewed it would be a great punching bag. This guy is a virologist who is taking great liberties with evolution and natural selection which works on random variation within a population which is why it very unpredictable. But the trend with other organisms that do this is clearly towards a MUTUALISTIC or COMMENSALISTIC relationships. NOT parasitic, thats how these relationships might start, but this does not end well from an evolutionary point of view.
    Last edited by pgardn; 07-29-2021 at 11:20 AM.

  13. #26288
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    There is thinking about what happens in individual people, and there is thinking on the level of populations and evolution of variants. BOTH are very important.

    Sorry Darrin.

  14. #26289
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    I said "impact to a society" and you keep focusing on the individuals.

    I'm young and healthy and I was very impacted by the spread of infection in 2020, even though I never got COVID.
    We all were.

    Having vaccinated the old/sick and having told the truth to ppl that this vaccine might only last a few month and you can still kill grandma with it would have had a better outcome to society IMO

  15. #26290
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    NYT's Bret Stephens hits Fauci in scathing op-ed: 'Covid misinformation comes from the top, too'

  16. #26291
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    I can see why they lied. They most likely said "well if we tell the truth that were not sure this vax prevents infection, spread and how long it lasts. Noone will take it"

    Thats a stupid way of thinking.

    I would have told the truth and mainly stressed.on the fact that the sick and old will.benefit immensely from it. And of course make it optional.

    Begging ppl to take this with lottery and cash or beer.is just ing weird

    And now planning to make it mandatory yet still requiring mask is ing bananas

  17. #26292
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    We all were.

    Having vaccinated the old/sick and having told the truth to ppl that this vaccine might only last a few month and you can still kill grandma with it would have had a better outcome to society IMO
    The truth is the vaccination lasts much longer than one month. The vaccine has proven to be incredibly effective.
    The people have proven to be stupid.
    Case in point, hater.

  18. #26293
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    the number of pediatric positives seems to be notably higher in New South Wales in the current wave.


    Last edited by Winehole23; 07-29-2021 at 11:50 AM.

  19. #26294
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    The truth is the vaccination lasts much longer than one month. The vaccine has proven to be incredibly effective.
    The people have proven to be stupid.
    Case in point, hater.
    Its ok to disagree, UrineTract

    You and whinehole seem to pout and call names at ppl you disagree with.

    Thats a sure telltale sign of a little

  20. #26295
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    NYT's Bret Stephens hits Fauci in scathing op-ed: 'Covid misinformation comes from the top, too'
    Misinformation is now a scientist getting NEW more time relevant data and CHANGING protocol.
    Which is EXACTLY how science works.
    Its ignorant PEOPLE WHO dont get science, or know how to properly get a population who dont understand science on board.

    I give you hater and cucks.
    Last edited by pgardn; 07-29-2021 at 12:03 PM.

  21. #26296
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Its ok to disagree, UrineTract

    You and whinehole seem to pout and call names at ppl you disagree with.

    Thats a sure telltale sign of a little
    Yes lets do disagree. Lets use alternative facts.

    Your screen name is heater. Yeah we once thought it was hater but we were wrong, its an alternative fact.
    And my screen name is pea garden. Urine garden... ok. You are a funny guy.

  22. #26297
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    There is thinking about what happens in individual people, and there is thinking on the level of populations and evolution of variants. BOTH are very important.

    Sorry Darrin.

    Spreading like wildfire in highly-vaxxed Bexar county.

    How's that non-sterilizing immunity working out?

  23. #26298
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    In Los Angeles, the vaxxed are 25% of new cases.

  24. #26299
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Spreading like wildfire in highly-vaxxed Bexar county.

    How's that non-sterilizing immunity working out?
    Oh Darrin.
    The non sterilizing immunity has a botched definition. There really is no such thing. If you look at the cycle of viral infection can you point out to me which step sterilizing immunity occurs in. Neither can anyone else.

    Bexar county IS NOT highly vaxxed.
    VERMONT is highly vaxxed.
    84% of everyone 12 and up.

  25. #26300
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    Yes lets do disagree. Lets use alternative facts.

    Your screen name is heater. Yeah we once thought it was hater but we were wrong, its an alternative fact.
    Disagreed

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