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  1. #26
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    Why would DeRozan or his agent care what Pop wants? They're going to do what's best for them.

    If some sucker is willing to give him 3 years at similar money to what he's currently earning, he'd be a fool not to take it . . . and the Spurs would be even bigger fools than they already are to give him any type of contract.

    People seem to think Milutinov will never come over for financial purposes, but other than the fact that they wasted a 1st round pick on him, he's largely irrelevant anyway. Poeltl is more than likely a better version, center is the most over saturated position and he's an archaic type, who'd likely be a matchup dependant backup.
    It matters because if he is willing to go to team X, Y, or Z and we are not willing to trade with them, then only a team that is $27M+ under the salary cap can sign him. Not many teams like that. So if he wants to go somewhere, his best course of action is to get an agreement with the FO to help him.

  2. #27
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
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    Might as well be considering who will be the top 3 in MPG. DD/LMA/Firmes
    DDR
    Forbes
    LMA

    in that order

  3. #28
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
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    Here's what a smart front office would do:

    1. Tell Pop to retire
    2. Find a new head coach
    3. Don't resign Forbes and Belinelli
    4. Waive Lyles
    5. Trade Carroll and Gay
    6. Gamble on DeRozan to opt in
    7. Try to sign Joe Harris, Bojan Bogdanovic

    Here's what the Spurs will do:

    1. Beg Pop to coach another season
    2. Resign Bryn Forbes to a 60 million/4-year deal
    3. Supermax DeRozan
    4. Don't sign any free agent at all
    5. Do the same they did this year
    I would change #6 to trade Murray and DDR for a combination of young talent, expiring contracts and picks

  4. #29
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Spurs will trade two or three of Gay, Mills, Murray, Lyles, White for a disgruntled or overpriced allstar this off season.

  5. #30
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    Might as well be considering who will be the top 3 in MPG. DD/LMA/Firmes
    Ouch! If that comes to pass (highly likely if Pop is still at the helm) my MPG will drop to near 0.

  6. #31
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    We're going to have a relatively good draft pick. What position would help us the most and who would be available near that position?

    Conversely, do we package that pick with someone like DDR to move even higher. Is there a game-changer out there worth doing that for? Is there a team that would go for that that has a great pick we'd want to trade with? A lot of variables that have to align.

  7. #32
    Veteran GAustex's Avatar
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    Add to this is get rid of DJM-fool someone into giving up assets for this clown.

  8. #33
    Believe.
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    Here's what a smart front office would do:

    1. Tell Pop to retire
    2. Find a new head coach
    3. Don't resign Forbes and Belinelli
    4. Waive Lyles
    5. Trade Carroll and Gay
    6. Gamble on DeRozan to opt in
    7. Try to sign Joe Harris, Bojan Bogdanovic

    Here's what the Spurs will do:

    1. Beg Pop to coach another season
    2. Resign Bryn Forbes to a 60 million/4-year deal
    3. Supermax DeRozan
    4. Don't sign any free agent at all
    5. Do the same they did this year
    Pretty much. You forgot to mention bringing Marco back for one more year.

  9. #34
    Believe.
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    Dejounte Murray , Derrick white
    Lonnie walker , patty mills
    3 and d , demarre carroll
    3 and d , not Rudy gay
    Lamarcus Aldridge , Jakob poeltl

    It's not that damn hard. Murray and walker are the damn future backcourt in this league and all they're doing is delaying it because of the demar DeRozan trade

  10. #35
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    I am ready to give up on Forbes, Lyles, and Murray. When you look at it day in and day out they are pulling the team down. These guys have no BB IQ. The keep making the same stupid mistakes over and over and over. Lyles is not worth his contract.

    Murray has showed zero growth and Forbes is, well Forbes. I would rather dump these guys along with Carrol and Gay's salary and try to go find a real PG and wing with height (for those of you who argue there is no SF). LMA is shooting the three so, now is the time to move Poetl back into the starting lineup. Moving some of the youth should be a wake-up call to the youth that remains.

  11. #36
    Believe.
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    I am ready to give up on Forbes, Lyles, and Murray. When you look at it day in and day out they are pulling the team down. These guys have no BB IQ. The keep making the same stupid mistakes over and over and over. Lyles is not worth his contract.

    Murray has showed zero growth and Forbes is, well Forbes. I would rather dump these guys along with Carrol and Gay's salary and try to go find a real PG and wing with height (for those of you who argue there is no SF). LMA is shooting the three so, now is the time to move Poetl back into the starting lineup. Moving some of the youth should be a wake-up call to the youth that remains.

    Murray is like 22 years old who is just coming back from a torn acl and playing beside someone who is regressing his progression. But sure let's give up on him lol.

    Dejounte is on the bottom of the list of problems for this team and I'm convinced some of you are trolling when any of you criticize him and want him off the team tbh. But that's your opinion.

  12. #37
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
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    Murray is like 22 years old who is just coming back from a torn acl and playing beside someone who is regressing his progression. But sure let's give up on him lol.

    Dejounte is on the bottom of the list of problems for this team and I'm convinced some of you are trolling when any of you criticize him and want him off the team tbh. But that's your opinion.
    If you want to keep Murray as the backup PG of the future I’m cool with that but he isn’t the starting PG that you think he might become. He can’t shoot, can’t pass, and turns it over when he tries to make plays. He’s a better than average defender and is a good rebounding guard. That isn’t going to take us places...even as a complementary player to DDR and LMA or other all stars. Most stars generally control the ball and want guys next to them that can shoot. On the flip side if you can’t shoot as a PG you really need to be an excellent passer and playmaker that elevates your teammates play. Murray can’t play either role.

  13. #38
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    If you want to keep Murray as the backup PG of the future I’m cool with that but he isn’t the starting PG that you think he might become. He can’t shoot, can’t pass, and turns it over when he tries to make plays. He’s a better than average defender and is a good rebounding guard. That isn’t going to take us places...even as a complementary player to DDR and LMA or other all stars. Most stars generally control the ball and want guys next to them that can shoot. On the flip side if you can’t shoot as a PG you really need to be an excellent passer and playmaker that elevates your teammates play. Murray can’t play either role.
    He really has a lot of holes in his game. The kind of holes that are keeping him from being a good complimentary piece let alone a great PG.

  14. #39
    hope and change
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    Who's the head coach?
    unless this changes, nothing else matters

  15. #40
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Your positions are all out of whack . . .

    Bigs: Aldridge, Poeltl, Metu, Eubanks
    Bigs and big wings: Gay, Lyles, Carroll, Samanic
    Wings: DeRozan, Walker IV, Belinelli, Johnson
    Guards: Murray, White, Mills, Forbes, Weatherspoon

    Unless DeRozan is willing to opt in to his final year, expect him to be traded, which will probably lead to Aldridge and Gay being traded as well.

    Likely to be re-signed: Poeltl and Forbes
    Likely to not be re-signed: Belinelli
    Likely to have team option picked up: Lyles
    Likely to be traded: Carroll
    Still don't think Forbes is getting re-signed. It would be on brand for him to be but letting Forbes walk and starting Walker or White walk seems like a no-brainer.

    Agree on Lyles and Beli, though i'm not high on Lyles. He's a 10th man. If he could shoot then he'd be fine in his role but he is a below average 3pt shooter.

  16. #41
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Still think next year will be:

    Murray, Mills,
    Walker, White
    DDR, K.J, Carroll
    PF, Gay, Lyles, Samanic
    LMA, Poeltl, Metu

    plus the 2020 1st rounder

  17. #42
    Believe.
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    If you want to keep Murray as the backup PG of the future I’m cool with that but he isn’t the starting PG that you think he might become. He can’t shoot, can’t pass, and turns it over when he tries to make plays. He’s a better than average defender and is a good rebounding guard. That isn’t going to take us places...even as a complementary player to DDR and LMA or other all stars. Most stars generally control the ball and want guys next to them that can shoot. On the flip side if you can’t shoot as a PG you really need to be an excellent passer and playmaker that elevates your teammates play. Murray can’t play either role.
    I think most people underestimate his shooting which has improved. He is more of a free play type of PG, He can run sets but he needs to have some tempo in it. Pop has really neutered him by making him defer to LMA and DDR. This is why Pop needs to retire as he is hurting the youth.

  18. #43
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    Still don't think Forbes is getting re-signed. It would be on brand for him to be but letting Forbes walk and starting Walker or White walk seems like a no-brainer.

    Agree on Lyles and Beli, though i'm not high on Lyles. He's a 10th man. If he could shoot then he'd be fine in his role but he is a below average 3pt shooter.
    He's played so poorly and doesn't have enough of a track record of great 3-point shooting seasons that he's probably not going to cost much and that was likely the only thing that could have dissuaded them.

    I'm not high on Lyles, either. But if the "mid 3" are traded, even if a starting caliber big wing/"PF" is what they receive for DeRozan, I could see them keeping him as a backup for another season before turning the job over to Samanic.

  19. #44
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    It matters because if he is willing to go to team X, Y, or Z and we are not willing to trade with them, then only a team that is $27M+ under the salary cap can sign him. Not many teams like that. So if he wants to go somewhere, his best course of action is to get an agreement with the FO to help him.
    I've long said as much. If he's not content opting in and playing out his final season without an extension (which I doubt), I suspect they'll work in concert to find a trade partner willing to give him a palatable one as part of the agreement.

  20. #45
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    He's played so poorly and doesn't have enough of a track record of great 3-point shooting seasons that he's probably not going to cost much and that was likely the only thing that could have dissuaded them.

    I'm not high on Lyles, either. But if the "mid 3" are traded, even if a starting caliber big wing/"PF" is what they receive for DeRozan, I could see them keeping him as a backup for another season before turning the job over to Samanic.

    Fair point, but he is an unrestricted free agent. If he were RFA that would further hurt his value. I could see a team giving him $ million a year to be a bench 3-point bomber.

    Year 3 is normally when the Spurs fully integrated draftees into the rotation, if they haven't been already. I think- or at least hope, that they'll let Byrn and Beli walk, start Walker and have KJ backup DDR.

    I think they really need an upgrade at the 4. Lyles is miscast as a starter and Gay can't play big minutes and hasn't been very good this season.

  21. #46
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    Fair point, but he is an unrestricted free agent. If he were RFA that would further hurt his value. I could see a team giving him $ million a year to be a bench 3-point bomber.

    Year 3 is normally when the Spurs fully integrated draftees into the rotation, if they haven't been already. I think- or at least hope, that they'll let Byrn and Beli walk, start Walker and have KJ backup DDR.

    I think they really need an upgrade at the 4. Lyles is miscast as a starter and Gay can't play big minutes and hasn't been very good this season.
    I don't have a great sense of his market value at the moment, but it's not like he's going to break the bank. They'll probably overpay him with something like 3/$18 million, when they could sign a comparable like Daniels for the minimum.

    There's a good chance DeRozan is traded and either way, Johnson backing him up is unlikely. This team can't afford another significant downgrade in shooting in their rotation.

    They need an upgrade at the 4 just to make the playoffs. I still think Marvin Williams is the best possible stopgap.

  22. #47
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    I don't have a great sense of his market value at the moment, but it's not like he's going to break the bank. They'll probably overpay him with something like 3/$18 million, when they could sign a comparable like Daniels for the minimum.

    There's a good chance DeRozan is traded and either way, Johnson backing him up is unlikely. This team can't afford another significant downgrade in shooting in their rotation.

    They need an upgrade at the 4 just to make the playoffs. I still think Marvin Williams is the best possible stopgap.
    -Agree on Marvin Williams. Heard a lot of good things about him, apparently he's a good defender in addition to actually being able to space the floor.

    -Man, I really hope your wrong on Forbes but I could see that

    -Don't see a Demar trade; I think the Spurs are bent on the PS. They also probably expect that he'll opt-in. The could always trade him in the off season, after he does.

    -KJ is hard to peg as a shooter; he was actually a good shooter in college-that was probably his biggest strength coming out but has been awful shooting it in the G-league. I think he's been too good in the G-league to keep on the bench for another season.

    I think he's not nearly as bad of a shooter as he's shown. He'd be an significant upgrade defensively over Beli who's been DDR's backup for much of the season. Walker would be a significant upgrade defensively over Forbes.

    I think that they'd be able to figure the downgrade in shooting. Aldridge is taking 4.7 3's per game, in January. If he is taking that many from the start next season, along with Murray continuing to improve, a better stretch 4 option, etc. I think they'll be ok there.

  23. #48
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    -Agree on Marvin Williams. Heard a lot of good things about him, apparently he's a good defender in addition to actually being able to space the floor.

    -Man, I really hope your wrong on Forbes but I could see that

    -Don't see a Demar trade; I think the Spurs are bent on the PS. They also probably expect that he'll opt-in. The could always trade him in the off season, after he does.

    -KJ is hard to peg as a shooter; he was actually a good shooter in college-that was probably his biggest strength coming out but has been awful shooting it in the G-league. I think he's been too good in the G-league to keep on the bench for another season.

    I think he's not nearly as bad of a shooter as he's shown. He'd be an significant upgrade defensively over Beli who's been DDR's backup for much of the season. Walker would be a significant upgrade defensively over Forbes.

    I think that they'd be able to figure the downgrade in shooting. Aldridge is taking 4.7 3's per game, in January. If he is taking that many from the start next season, along with Murray continuing to improve, a better stretch 4 option, etc. I think they'll be ok there.
    With regards to a potential DeRozan trade, I mean after the season. I doubt he opts in. Despite only a handful of re-building teams (who he obviously makes no sense for) having cap space, the '20 free agent class is way worse than the '21 one and going on 31, I'd imagine he'd want to lock in one final big contract as opposed to risking severe injury or decline the following season.

    Johnson is a sub par shooter and even if he were to be a decent enough one in a vacuum next season, with what they have in place, they can't afford the downgrade in shooting from Forbes to him. If Forbes isn't re-signed, his rotation spot likely goes to a cheaper shooter.

    I expect Johnson to enter the season in the role Walker has been in much of the season, which really only means he's an injury away from rotational minutes.

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