NBA: NBA players Are Least Knowledgeable About Their Sport

[TD 21]

I've long known this, but the Bryant death and ensuing hyperbole has encapsulated it.

Undoubtedly, some are just going along with the crowd, while others are pretending altogether. But plenty of these idiots actually bought all of his carefully crafted persona, "mythical" figure nonsense and think he's a top few player of all-time because he fit their narrowminded view of how greatness in this sport is supposed to look, act, play, etc.

I know this stuff should be trivial at a time like this, but it's already gotten unbearable to listen to.

[Kawhitstorm]

You do understand most of these cats can barely read.

(wait until Kyrie’s shortbus ends up in a ditch & his peers compare him to MLK)

[FrostKing]

Yes it has all become a bit absurd. But celebrating a hard working and classy black male as a role model in Americas increasingly debauchery society is a good thing so I think no one is pumping the brakes

[UZER]

[Spurtacular]

I've long known this, but the Bryant death and ensuing hyperbole has encapsulated it.

Undoubtedly, some are just going along with the crowd, while others are pretending altogether. But plenty of these idiots actually bought all of his carefully crafted persona, "mythical" figure nonsense and think he's a top few player of all-time because he fit their narrowminded view of how greatness in this sport is supposed to look, act, play, etc.

I know this stuff should be trivial at a time like this, but it's already gotten unbearable to listen to.

This not new. A whole generation was sold that MJ was undisputed GOAT.

[DMC]

I've long known this, but the Bryant death and ensuing hyperbole has encapsulated it.

Undoubtedly, some are just going along with the crowd, while others are pretending altogether. But plenty of these idiots actually bought all of his carefully crafted persona, "mythical" figure nonsense and think he's a top few player of all-time because he fit their narrowminded view of how greatness in this sport is supposed to look, act, play, etc.

I know this stuff should be trivial at a time like this, but it's already gotten unbearable to listen to.

The Kobe Effect tbh

[Neo.]

This not new. A whole generation was sold that MJ was undisputed GOAT.

kinda like previous generations were sold that wilt and bill were the undisputed goats

[DMC]

It's just basketball

[JamStone]

I like to hear caveats and disclaimers when the term “greatest” is used for Kobe. Greatest player “I ever watched growing up” or greatest “guard since Jordan” or having one of the greatest “impact” or “influence” on the NBA. But if I hear a player or fan or sports writer use “greatest” in general terms for Kobe, it’s clear and obvious that it’s exaggeration spurred by the moment of the emotional immediacy of his death. He was never in the conversation as one of the greatest. Even some players and writers (Wilbon) talking about him as a top 5 to top 10 greatest of all time is pretentious exaggeration.

Now when people talk about how hard he worked, his compe ive fire, his will to win in superlative terms, that I wouldn't really argue. That’s not the type of thing that can be proven in tangible or statistical terms. And it’s widely agreed that no other player was as obsessed with greatness and how he put in the work to achieve it as Kobe was. But his greatness as a player and player alone has absolutely been over the top.

Some of these players now didn’t watch Jordan or Magic or Bird growing up, let alone guys like Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Oscar for a frame of reference. And many of these younger NBA players have also seen and experienced a different and older Kobe who mentored them, advocated as an ambassador for the game, without the -ass tendencies of younger Kobe. The Kobe they know or think they know is different from the Kobe perceived, ridiculed, and trashed on these boards.

So it’s the context of what they know or what they experienced that may determine how they choose to describe Kobe.

[TD 21]

You do understand most of these cats can barely read.

(wait until Kyrie’s shortbus ends up in a ditch & his peers compare him to MLK)

Yeah, but they eat, breathe and sleep this and yet many of them seemingly the game through the eyes of a casual fan.

I like to hear caveats and disclaimers when the term “greatest” is used for Kobe. Greatest player “I ever watched growing up” or greatest “guard since Jordan” or having one of the greatest “impact” or “influence” on the NBA. But if I hear a player or fan or sports writer use “greatest” in general terms for Kobe, it’s clear and obvious that it’s exaggeration spurred by the moment of the emotional immediacy of his death. He was never in the conversation as one of the greatest. Even some players and writers (Wilbon) talking about him as a top 5 to top 10 greatest of all time is pretentious exaggeration.

Now when people talk about how hard he worked, his compe ive fire, his will to win in superlative terms, that I wouldn't really argue. That’s not the type of thing that can be proven in tangible or statistical terms. And it’s widely agreed that no other player was as obsessed with greatness and how he put in the work to achieve it as Kobe was. But his greatness as a player and player alone has absolutely been over the top.

Some of these players now didn’t watch Jordan or Magic or Bird growing up, let alone guys like Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Oscar for a frame of reference. And many of these younger NBA players have also seen and experienced a different and older Kobe who mentored them, advocated as an ambassador for the game, without the -ass tendencies of younger Kobe. The Kobe they know or think they know is different from the Kobe perceived, ridiculed, and trashed on these boards.

So it’s the context of what they know or what they experienced that may determine how they choose to describe Kobe.

All part of the nonsense I was saying. Because he looked the part and was a shameless self promotor, people lapped that type of stuff up. The reality is, there is no one stand alone player who was the most compe ive or hard working and if it were possible why would it be a guy who was only interested in winning on his terms?

Yeah, but they did watch the likes of O'Neal and Duncan, they just have no respect for big men.

[JamStone]

I haven’t heard Kobe in interviews say he worked harder than everybody else’s. He may have, but I haven’t heard it. I have heard it, however, from teammates, other players, coaches, and inside Laker reporters. This wasn’t a narrative he by himself started, like the Black Mamba nickname. It was other people saying it about him. I defer to them, whether really true or not, they believed it.

But again, those are subjective things that can’t be proven anyway. Why get upset about people’s opinions?

[Killakobe81]

Yeah, but they eat, breathe and sleep this and yet many of them seemingly the game through the eyes of a casual fan.

All part of the nonsense I was saying. Because he looked the part and was a shameless self promotor, people lapped that type of stuff up. The reality is, there is no one stand alone player who was the most compe ive or hard working and if it were possible why would it be a guy who was only interested in winning on his terms?

Yeah, but they did watch the likes of O'Neal and Duncan, they just have no respect for big men.

boo fricken hoo ...
Players and fans gravitate to wings and guards over big men.
Kobe is not the first or the last ...
Steph has been the most popular player of the past few years ...

I appreciate Jam trying to provide objective perspective but saying he is top 10 is not a pretentious exaggeration. Old guys like wilbon and Kornheiser have a bias towards the older players ( Tony says Magic was greater than Jordan) just like the new era analysts favor the more efficient players like Bron/Duncan/KD/Harden ... does that make them wrong. I couldnt tell me dad that MJ was better than Dr.J I think he is wrong ...but does that actually make him wrong when we talk about SUBJECTIVE like who is the greatest?!

Im not going to ever waste time in long debates on Kobe's legacy even after his death, (after today)
But he is in my top 10 and i dont think im crazy or unreasonable.
Again i never saw wilt or Dr J or Russell but I seen so much hoops in my 40 years Idgaf even if someone as smart as Jam or TD21 will argue otherwise.
My top 10 is by team:
first-team - Jordan Kareem Magic Lebron Duncan
2nd team - Kobe Steph Bird Hakeem Shaq
The reason I choose teams that is how you compare players against players comparing Duncan and Kobe (which I argued for years before giving an edge to Timmy) is stupid he is the goat PF not center or SG ...Bron is the best SF and Jordan the goast SG etc everyone else th best they can hope for is 2nd best which is the fate that befell Kobe. It happens.

I may have cheated to get both hakeem and shaq on my 2nd team but those the 10 best players I have ever seen ... (With KD possibly edging bird tbh) but I will leave Larry legend there for now. be

even before his death you could argue wilt Russell and few others ahead of kobe on the top 10 ...but that puts him somewhere betwen 12 and 15 so saying he is top 10 is not some crazy exaggeration.
But whatever let you mere mortals argue over arbitrary lists i gave mine and Im done ... feel free to give yours ... but my nicca Kobe, the mamba the icon is a top 10 debatable and top 15 no doubt in my book.

and im enjoying all yall that hated him in life having to listen to all your sacred cows wax poetic (Pop, Bron, Bird Isiah, Duncan) ... he is your favorite players' favorite player and that means more for his legacy than yall lists, advance metrics whatever ...Neal with it!!!!

and yall right about one thing ....his death will have some overrating him ... Good!!! all yall that shat on him and still do ...it balances out ...

Not directed at Jam or Td21 tbh but I have been mostly quiet and let all this Kobe talk slide ... its time to let the venom loose!!!

#mambaforlife!!!!!

[Killakobe81]

On these lists ...one of the things I respect about simmons book on basketball even though we know he has a celtics bias he went to old players and coaches for perspective on the players he never saw. If i had his $$$ and access I would do the same. But sincei never saw wilt or russell ...how the im gonna put them over Kareem Hakeem Duncan or shaq who i saw dominate with my own eyes? Based off numbers froma limitedly integrated NBA? or favor Steph/cp3 over Magic because of the 3 ball or harden over MJ? Its all subjective and if punk ass nick wright can admit how silly arguing over this tuff is the I'm gonna get sucked in ....I gave my list everyone can give theirs and no one is wrong ... we can laugh at a few crazy opinions but at the end of the day most media guys have solid lists based on thier own preference or biases same as me or you.

[Killakobe81]

Amb I see you floating before you post a reply I internt love you brother and i f I ever said anything offensive to you (i think i recall a Morrisesque female tendencies i lobbed your way that Im ashamed of) in our old debates ...
I apologize man to man and thank you for sharing your insights even if i thought you had crossed the line from time to time ...
I only spent that time because I respected your intellect.

BTW, you were classy last sunday and no matter what you post today i will remember that on that day you showed your human side and i saw it ...

You my boy, Amb same as Jam, TD21, Bum, thread, kool, Deeps. gemini, Lakerfan etc.

[UZER]

boo fricken hoo ...
Players and fans gravitate to wings and guards over big men.
Kobe is not the first or the last ...
Steph has been the most popular player of the past few years ...

I appreciate Jam trying to provide objective perspective but saying he is top 10 is not a pretentious exaggeration. Old guys like wilbon and Kornheiser have a bias towards the older players ( Tony says Magic was greater than Jordan) just like the new era analysts favor the more efficient players like Bron/Duncan/KD/Harden ... does that make them wrong. I couldnt tell me dad that MJ was better than Dr.J I think he is wrong ...but does that actually make him wrong when we talk about SUBJECTIVE like who is the greatest?!

Im not going to ever waste time in long debates on Kobe's legacy even after his death, (after today)
But he is in my top 10 and i dont think im crazy or unreasonable.
Again i never saw wilt or Dr J or Russell but I seen so much hoops in my 40 years Idgaf even if someone as smart as Jam or TD21 will argue otherwise.
My top 10 is by team:
first-team - Jordan Kareem Magic Lebron Duncan
2nd team - Kobe Steph Bird Hakeem Shaq
The reason I choose teams that is how you compare players against players comparing Duncan and Kobe (which I argued for years before giving an edge to Timmy) is stupid he is the goat PF not center or SG ...Bron is the best SF and Jordan the goast SG etc everyone else th best they can hope for is 2nd best which is the fate that befell Kobe. It happens.

I may have cheated to get both hakeem and shaq on my 2nd team but those the 10 best players I have ever seen ... (With KD possibly edging bird tbh) but I will leave Larry legend there for now. be

even before his death you could argue wilt Russell and few others ahead of kobe on the top 10 ...but that puts him somewhere betwen 12 and 15 so saying he is top 10 is not some crazy exaggeration.
But whatever let you mere mortals argue over arbitrary lists i gave mine and Im done ... feel free to give yours ... but my nicca Kobe, the mamba the icon is a top 10 debatable and top 15 no doubt in my book.

and im enjoying all yall that hated him in life having to listen to all your sacred cows wax poetic (Pop, Bron, Bird Isiah, Duncan) ... he is your favorite players' favorite player and that means more for his legacy than yall lists, advance metrics whatever ...Neal with it!!!!

and yall right about one thing ....his death will have some overrating him ... Good!!! all yall that shat on him and still do ...it balances out ...

Not directed at Jam or Td21 tbh but I have been mostly quiet and let all this Kobe talk slide ... its time to let the venom loose!!!

#mambaforlife!!!!!

Speaking of boo fricken hoo

[Killakobe81]

Speaking of boo fricken hoo

yeah i just needed to get some off my chest been an emotional week ...

[DMC]

boo fricken hoo ...
Players and fans gravitate to wings and guards over big men.
Kobe is not the first or the last ...
Steph has been the most popular player of the past few years ...

I appreciate Jam trying to provide objective perspective but saying he is top 10 is not a pretentious exaggeration. Old guys like wilbon and Kornheiser have a bias towards the older players ( Tony says Magic was greater than Jordan) just like the new era analysts favor the more efficient players like Bron/Duncan/KD/Harden ... does that make them wrong. I couldnt tell me dad that MJ was better than Dr.J I think he is wrong ...but does that actually make him wrong when we talk about SUBJECTIVE like who is the greatest?!

Im not going to ever waste time in long debates on Kobe's legacy even after his death, (after today)
But he is in my top 10 and i dont think im crazy or unreasonable.
Again i never saw wilt or Dr J or Russell but I seen so much hoops in my 40 years Idgaf even if someone as smart as Jam or TD21 will argue otherwise.
My top 10 is by team:
first-team - Jordan Kareem Magic Lebron Duncan
2nd team - Kobe Steph Bird Hakeem Shaq
The reason I choose teams that is how you compare players against players comparing Duncan and Kobe (which I argued for years before giving an edge to Timmy) is stupid he is the goat PF not center or SG ...Bron is the best SF and Jordan the goast SG etc everyone else th best they can hope for is 2nd best which is the fate that befell Kobe. It happens.

I may have cheated to get both hakeem and shaq on my 2nd team but those the 10 best players I have ever seen ... (With KD possibly edging bird tbh) but I will leave Larry legend there for now. be

even before his death you could argue wilt Russell and few others ahead of kobe on the top 10 ...but that puts him somewhere betwen 12 and 15 so saying he is top 10 is not some crazy exaggeration.
But whatever let you mere mortals argue over arbitrary lists i gave mine and Im done ... feel free to give yours ... but my nicca Kobe, the mamba the icon is a top 10 debatable and top 15 no doubt in my book.

and im enjoying all yall that hated him in life having to listen to all your sacred cows wax poetic (Pop, Bron, Bird Isiah, Duncan) ... he is your favorite players' favorite player and that means more for his legacy than yall lists, advance metrics whatever ...Neal with it!!!!

and yall right about one thing ....his death will have some overrating him ... Good!!! all yall that shat on him and still do ...it balances out ...

Not directed at Jam or Td21 tbh but I have been mostly quiet and let all this Kobe talk slide ... its time to let the venom loose!!!

#mambaforlife!!!!!

Mambaforlife is a bit ironic for Kill a Kobe to be posting.

[FrostKing]

Big Men aside. The most Alpha players of my generation were Bird, Jordan and Kobe.

[J_Paco]

I've long known this, but the Bryant death and ensuing hyperbole has encapsulated it.

Undoubtedly, some are just going along with the crowd, while others are pretending altogether. But plenty of these idiots actually bought all of his carefully crafted persona, "mythical" figure nonsense and think he's a top few player of all-time because he fit their narrowminded view of how greatness in this sport is supposed to look, act, play, etc.

I know this stuff should be trivial at a time like this, but it's already gotten unbearable to listen to.

Yeah, man. His sham of a last game (50 shots to score 60 points, SMDH) made it clear as day that he was overrated and overappreciated by the modern fan (and player). And the media has always, always overstated his impact in the league and historically.

The tragic death of him, his daughter, her teammates, their family members, etc. was only going to maginify all of that.

You have Quinn Cook crying as if his own grandmother passed away. Clearly, these guys held him in the highest of regards. Plus, he played the "most exciting" position on the most popular team in the league and probably had the most "player fans" ever.

Yeah, but they eat, breathe and sleep this and yet many of them seemingly the game through the eyes of a casual fan.

All part of the nonsense I was saying. Because he looked the part and was a shameless self promotor, people lapped that type of stuff up. The reality is, there is no one stand alone player who was the most compe ive or hard working and if it were possible why would it be a guy who was only interested in winning on his terms?

Yeah, but they did watch the likes of O'Neal and Duncan, they just have no respect for big men.

You have an imbecile like Kendrick Perkins - who played in the league and battled Duncan, Garnett, O'Neal & Nowtizki - saying Bryant is a "top 5 all - time" while disparaging the accomplishments of Wilt & Russell. Those were just stories......

Idiot......

[ambchang]

Amb I see you floating before you post a reply I internt love you brother and i f I ever said anything offensive to you (i think i recall a Morrisesque female tendencies i lobbed your way that Im ashamed of) in our old debates ...
I apologize man to man and thank you for sharing your insights even if i thought you had crossed the line from time to time ...
I only spent that time because I respected your intellect.

BTW, you were classy last sunday and no matter what you post today i will remember that on that day you showed your human side and i saw it ...

You my boy, Amb same as Jam, TD21, Bum, thread, kool, Deeps. gemini, Lakerfan etc.

All cool. I’m not going to talk about Kobe for a while now out of respect. I actually like him as a player during the three peat.

[DMC]

Some cringeworthy last night in Staples tbh, loss included.

[TD 21]

I haven’t heard Kobe in interviews say he worked harder than everybody else’s. He may have, but I haven’t heard it. I have heard it, however, from teammates, other players, coaches, and inside Laker reporters. This wasn’t a narrative he by himself started, like the Black Mamba nickname. It was other people saying it about him. I defer to them, whether really true or not, they believed it.

But again, those are subjective things that can’t be proven anyway. Why get upset about people’s opinions?

He may not have said so directly, but he created the aura/perception and the brainwashed masses ate it up. Americans love them some self promoters, replete with dramatics and theatrics.

Some believed it, while others were parroting them in a misguided notion to "say the right thing".

I remember Raja Bell once saying he'd always say Bryant was the toughest player to defend because it was on brand, but he actually thought it was Ginobili.

boo fricken hoo ...
Players and fans gravitate to wings and guards over big men.
Kobe is not the first or the last ...
Steph has been the most popular player of the past few years ...

I appreciate Jam trying to provide objective perspective but saying he is top 10 is not a pretentious exaggeration. Old guys like wilbon and Kornheiser have a bias towards the older players ( Tony says Magic was greater than Jordan) just like the new era analysts favor the more efficient players like Bron/Duncan/KD/Harden ... does that make them wrong. I couldnt tell me dad that MJ was better than Dr.J I think he is wrong ...but does that actually make him wrong when we talk about SUBJECTIVE like who is the greatest?!

Im not going to ever waste time in long debates on Kobe's legacy even after his death, (after today)
But he is in my top 10 and i dont think im crazy or unreasonable.
Again i never saw wilt or Dr J or Russell but I seen so much hoops in my 40 years Idgaf even if someone as smart as Jam or TD21 will argue otherwise.
My top 10 is by team:
first-team - Jordan Kareem Magic Lebron Duncan
2nd team - Kobe Steph Bird Hakeem Shaq
The reason I choose teams that is how you compare players against players comparing Duncan and Kobe (which I argued for years before giving an edge to Timmy) is stupid he is the goat PF not center or SG ...Bron is the best SF and Jordan the goast SG etc everyone else th best they can hope for is 2nd best which is the fate that befell Kobe. It happens.

I may have cheated to get both hakeem and shaq on my 2nd team but those the 10 best players I have ever seen ... (With KD possibly edging bird tbh) but I will leave Larry legend there for now. be

even before his death you could argue wilt Russell and few others ahead of kobe on the top 10 ...but that puts him somewhere betwen 12 and 15 so saying he is top 10 is not some crazy exaggeration.
But whatever let you mere mortals argue over arbitrary lists i gave mine and Im done ... feel free to give yours ... but my nicca Kobe, the mamba the icon is a top 10 debatable and top 15 no doubt in my book.

and im enjoying all yall that hated him in life having to listen to all your sacred cows wax poetic (Pop, Bron, Bird Isiah, Duncan) ... he is your favorite players' favorite player and that means more for his legacy than yall lists, advance metrics whatever ...Neal with it!!!!

and yall right about one thing ....his death will have some overrating him ... Good!!! all yall that shat on him and still do ...it balances out ...

Not directed at Jam or Td21 tbh but I have been mostly quiet and let all this Kobe talk slide ... its time to let the venom loose!!!

#mambaforlife!!!!!

Yeah and my point was, you'd think players would have a deeper understanding/appreciation of things that a casual fan wouldn't, but that's not the case in this sport. It's bizarre.

Subjective is something where a credible argument can be made either way, like suggesting Bryant is top 10 all time. Pretending he was better than players like O'Neal, Duncan and James, is nonsense though.

At believing the caricature of themselves Spurs spewing cliché nonsense about him. Do yo really think people with the personalities of them, who valued the things they did in this sport, have this deep appreciation for him? They were probably mostly disgusted with him, but they're obviously not going to say that and anything but slobbering over others wouldn't be on brand.

[JamStone]

Phil Jackson, after he left the Lakers and was already with the Knicks, is on record saying that Kobe trained harder than Jordan. Even said he knew Jordan wouldn’t want to hear that. Phil told Melo he wouldn’t want to do Kobe’s workout regimen because no one trained harder than Kobe in like history. Many of the accounts you read and hear about Kobe’s maniacal approach to working out and training harder than anyone else are first hand accounts. Dwyane Wade said it about his Olympic experience with Kobe. You heard that Wade and Fisher story about how Kobe practiced getting hit on the arm and making shots because Wade kept tapping his wrist on his shots. It was right after the game. In Miami. Kobe was already 30+ years old. RIGHT after the game. Who does that? Lakers teammates like Brian Shaw, Fisher, Byron Scott. They all agree with it. They saw it. We heard Jay Williams on his pregame workout story with Kobe. Jim Boeheim said Kobe is the hardest worker he’s ever been around in his life, period. Boeheim is like 80 years old and been around basketball for like 60 years. There was some Lakers dude named John Celestand who recounts a story after Kobe broke his hand, he was excited to beat Kobe to practice since no one ever did, ever. But Kobe was still there first at like 4:30 in the morning the next day in full workout drills doing everything left handed.

Honestly, we as fans can only believe what we read and hear with so much grain of salt. But plenty of these stories are from first hand accounts from teammates and coaches and people who actually witnessed it. You can choose not to believe them. Your prerogative. But funny thing is even most Kobe critics don’t discredit that one thing about Kobe, that he was an obsessive and tireless worker when it came to training and preparation and working on his game, the likes of which go unmatched by anyone. They’ll question his maturity early on, his selfishness, his leadership, his likability, his inefficiency. All those things people have criticized with some measure of validity and truth. But when it comes to how hard he worked and prepared, I think you’re the first person, player, coach, writers, fans, what have you to call him out in that regard.

If Kobe brainwashed the masses into thinking he was an unmatched obsessive and tireless worker, I dare say he did by actually being that.

[TD 21]

Phil Jackson, after he left the Lakers and was already with the Knicks, is on record saying that Kobe trained harder than Jordan. Even said he knew Jordan wouldn’t want to hear that. Phil told Melo he wouldn’t want to do Kobe’s workout regimen because no one trained harder than Kobe in like history. Many of the accounts you read and hear about Kobe’s maniacal approach to working out and training harder than anyone else are first hand accounts. Dwyane Wade said it about his Olympic experience with Kobe. You heard that Wade and Fisher story about how Kobe practiced getting hit on the arm and making shots because Wade kept tapping his wrist on his shots. It was right after the game. In Miami. Kobe was already 30+ years old. RIGHT after the game. Who does that? Lakers teammates like Brian Shaw, Fisher, Byron Scott. They all agree with it. They saw it. We heard Jay Williams on his pregame workout story with Kobe. Jim Boeheim said Kobe is the hardest worker he’s ever been around in his life, period. Boeheim is like 80 years old and been around basketball for like 60 years. There was some Lakers dude named John Celestand who recounts a story after Kobe broke his hand, he was excited to beat Kobe to practice since no one ever did, ever. But Kobe was still there first at like 4:30 in the morning the next day in full workout drills doing everything left handed.

Honestly, we as fans can only believe what we read and hear with so much grain of salt. But plenty of these stories are from first hand accounts from teammates and coaches and people who actually witnessed it. You can choose not to believe them. Your prerogative. But funny thing is even most Kobe critics don’t discredit that one thing about Kobe, that he was an obsessive and tireless worker when it came to training and preparation and working on his game, the likes of which go unmatched by anyone. They’ll question his maturity early on, his selfishness, his leadership, his likability, his inefficiency. All those things people have criticized with some measure of validity and truth. But when it comes to how hard he worked and prepared, I think you’re the first person, player, coach, writers, fans, what have you to call him out in that regard.

If Kobe brainwashed the masses into thinking he was an unmatched obsessive and tireless worker, I dare say he did by actually being that.

I'm not saying he was not an extremely hard worker and great player . . . I'm saying the extent of both is being overstated because he fit the masses narrowminded views of how those things should look, sound, play, etc. Due to that, he was an easy sell for the leagues partners to said masses.

How the do we know how hard all these guys are working? There could be tons of random role players and guys not even in the league working as hard as him or anyone else. Saying any specific person is the hardest worker or fiercest compe or is ignorant, but this is the type of mythology Americans love.

[spurraider21]

thats not a big deal... seems like he was saying "one in three" not "one and three"