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  1. #101
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I agree with that. Cap space this offseason would be nice but it's not worth giving up real assets to acquire. I also understand that you have to give something of value to get something of value. In my businesses I do that all the time. I do implement a strategy where I try to acquire properties that I think are undervalued in the current market where I can get more out of them than others can get. As it relates to this roster I don't see anyone who should be off limits. I would just personally like to see the FO make moves that seem coherent (i.e. moves that show we have chosen a direction) where we are either cashing in assets to win now or selling established assets for young assets with the potential to mature into valuable pieces in the future.
    Yeah, I think we'd all like to see PATFO show commitment to some plan. And it would be nice to see the front office win a trade for once that isn't the George Hill deal. I'd almost be upset if the team pulls a big move given how many games they've spent just being mediocre. I was on board with the Spurs moving some young guys last summer if it allowed them to hop up in the draft and grab a blue-chipper, I think the same principle is true for this summer, but there aren't as many candidates for such a move. An issue is that I am not sure there's a real third-piece out there now. I personally don't agree with RC_Drunkford 's evaluation of Russell. I don't want to give up real value for him. I'd almost go so far as to say I'd be more okay with getting Wiggins, given that he's way cheaper and plays a position of long-term need. There are players I'd target first, but he Spurs might be able to facilitate a Russell-to-Minny deal with just their spare parts -- and maybe even pick up an asset to boot.

  2. #102
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    Yeah, I think we'd all like to see PATFO show commitment to some plan. And it would be nice to see the front office win a trade for once that isn't the George Hill deal. I'd almost be upset if the team pulls a big move given how many games they've spent just being mediocre. I was on board with the Spurs moving some young guys last summer if it allowed them to hop up in the draft and grab a blue-chipper, I think the same principle is true for this summer, but there aren't as many candidates for such a move. An issue is that I am not sure there's a real third-piece out there now. I personally don't agree with RC_Drunkford 's evaluation of Russell. I don't want to give up real value for him. I'd almost go so far as to say I'd be more okay with getting Wiggins, given that he's way cheaper and plays a position of long-term need. There are players I'd target first, but he Spurs might be able to facilitate a Russell-to-Minny deal with just their spare parts -- and maybe even pick up an asset to boot.
    I'm with you on that. I'm sort of agnostic on Russell since we'd be giving up assets for someone who might not move the needle much but, he has good vision and can space the floor... just meh.... on Wiggins I think there is still some upside that's untapped but if we are getting a significant asset for taking him on I'd do that because the asset + the possibility of extracting more value than Minnesota's getting from him would be worth the risk in my book. Like you said, it wouldn't be my 1st choice to target but I'd have it in the mix.

  3. #103
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    All depends on what the spurs can get for poodle. Obviously if they can attach poodle for a player they like then go for it

  4. #104
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    That's one of a post. From appearances and history, it's likely the "plan" is to stay the course and just make adjustments. If there was reason to think they would blow it up, it changes everything.

    Cap space absolutely WILL play a big part. They have been in cap for so long, and won't get out until 21-22. But if they pay to keep DDR, Poeltl, and Forbes they will have a lot of that space committed ahead of time. You can't build a team without managing the timing of contracts along with everything else.

    Personally, I don't think they can build a team around Aldridge - even partly around Aldridge. He's aging, and I believe that he will go elsewhere when this contract is up. A lot of people will scream, but the DDR we have seen for the last month is worth building around. He is what he is, and he has some holes in his game, but put the right pieces around this DeRozan and he's a strong building block. They have some good young players, but they don't have another piece ready to step up to that right now.

    So I think they either have to build around DDR - which means specific pieces to complement him, or blow it up. Keeping Aldridge is self-defeating, and keeping DeRozan without the right players around him is just as bad. And since the young guys are pretty redundant, yeah, they need to be open to trading them.
    Thanks. I am ok with what you outlined. Itís not my first choice, but I am ok with that and agree. DDR is the one to keep and if you do, you need to use LMA and other assets to shape a team around him that is much better fit.

    I am good with Murray/White/DDR as 1/2/3 but the 4/5 needs a modern upgrade.

  5. #105
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Thanks. I am ok with what you outlined. It’s not my first choice, but I am ok with that and agree. DDR is the one to keep and if you do, you need to use LMA and other assets to shape a team around him that is much better fit.

    I am good with Murray/White/DDR as 1/2/3 but the 4/5 needs a modern upgrade.

    You really see Murray as the 1 and White as the 2? Either way, I think one of the things this team lacks is a real PG. The strongest ball handler this team has is DDR and he's not really a setup man. He doesn't run the PnR for . I don't care what anyone says, a well-run PnR is still deadly effective in the modern game. Put all that together and I really think that one of White or Murray need to be one of the trade pieces.

    You obviously don't think that Poeltl can be that 5. Do you think Bertans was good enough to have been the 4? And if you're going to have DDR on the floor, you have to have two good 3P shooters - preferably one of them very good. So I assume you're talking about the 4/5 being those guys? I'm just curious how you see the pieces looking.

  6. #106
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    That 3 guard lineup isn't going to EVER work. DD needs legitimate shooters and defenders around him. He needs to be the 2 with two 3 and D guys next to him.

    That means a PG that can shoot and a TRUE SF.

  7. #107
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    If the Spurs really valued Poeltl he'd be playing more than the 15 minutes or so he's been getting.

    Pop is no longer a good enough coach to find time for effective players and even worse RC and Wright probably aren't good enough to not get fleeced.

  8. #108
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    You really see Murray as the 1 and White as the 2? Either way, I think one of the things this team lacks is a real PG. The strongest ball handler this team has is DDR and he's not really a setup man. He doesn't run the PnR for . I don't care what anyone says, a well-run PnR is still deadly effective in the modern game. Put all that together and I really think that one of White or Murray need to be one of the trade pieces.

    You obviously don't think that Poeltl can be that 5. Do you think Bertans was good enough to have been the 4? And if you're going to have DDR on the floor, you have to have two good 3P shooters - preferably one of them very good. So I assume you're talking about the 4/5 being those guys? I'm just curious how you see the pieces looking.
    Yup - I am making some assumptions, but that with Murray/White/DeRozan starting that Murray/White will be good enough from 3 and the defense will fit very well. They will run and in that type of offense the playmaking is not as big of an issue. But the 4/5 need to be able to shoot. They need a legitimate talent at both positions

    But to be honest, even with DDRís play, I am not sold on building around him. I would very much prefer the rebuild route.

  9. #109
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    That 3 guard lineup isn't going to EVER work. DD needs legitimate shooters and defenders around him. He needs to be the 2 with two 3 and D guys next to him.

    That means a PG that can shoot and a TRUE SF.
    Murray and White have the defense covered. For sure.

    I think White has proven he can shoot, he would be a tremendous secondary creator when the ball swings to him and Murray has made progress from 3.

    It would be a running and transition team and the defensive potential and offensive potential with a stretch 4 (a legit one) would work really well IMO.

    But yeah, there are definitely questionmarks and I’m not against trading youth for upgrades.

  10. #110
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    Too bad DD wouldn't have the defense covered if he's playing the 3...It would definitely eventually become a problem. White or Murray/DD/unamed 3&D guy would be the best they could do with the pieces they have.

    Getting a 4 to cover up for the 3 guard lineup is going to be tough. You'll probably have to give up one of those guards to get one anyway.

  11. #111
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Too bad DD wouldn't have the defense covered if he's playing the 3...It would definitely eventually become a problem. White or Murray/DD/unamed 3&D guy would be the best they could do with the pieces they have.

    Getting a 4 to cover up for the 3 guard lineup is going to be tough. You'll probably have to give up one of those guards to get one anyway.
    I mean every team has defensive holes. If DeRozan is the only one? I think that could work. But again, I am not keen on building around him at all for all these reasons.

  12. #112
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    I mean every team has defensive holes. If DeRozan is the only one? I think that could work. But again, I am not keen on building around him at all for all these reasons.
    It's just my personal opinion that you need a capable defender in that spot and the Spurs should build their team differently. We can agree to disagree.

    No doubt they need to upgrade the 4. Lyles will never be more than a deep bench big and Gay is just about done.

  13. #113
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    It's just my personal opinion that you need a capable defender in that spot and the Spurs should build their team differently. We can agree to disagree.

    No doubt they need to upgrade the 4. Lyles will never be more than a deep bench big and Gay is just about done.
    I mean, I agree with you, but if you keep DeRozan he’s 100% a 3. There is just no way around that

  14. #114
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    I mean, I agree with you, but if you keep DeRozan he’s 100% a 3. There is just no way around that
    Perhaps he should come off the bench. It's not like he's a true #1 anyway. Personally, I would trade him, but I really don't see the Spurs doing that.

  15. #115
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Perhaps he should come off the bench. It's not like he's a true #1 anyway. Personally, I would trade him, but I really don't see the Spurs doing that.
    I think his contract is an issue (the fact it’s only one year basically). I can see them trading him this summer via sign and trade

  16. #116
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    I think his contract is an issue (the fact itís only one year basically). I can see them trading him this summer via sign and trade

    How would you do that? DDR has a player option for $27.7 million. How do you plan to persuade him in favor of an s-and-t? Then, how do you convince anybody that he's worth more than $27.7 mil?

  17. #117
    Veteran monty4329's Avatar
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    How would you do that? DDR has a player option for $27.7 million. How do you plan to persuade him in favor of an s-and-t? Then, how do you convince anybody that he's worth more than $27.7 mil?
    opts out and s+t at 17/per on a 3+1, half the league would be interested

  18. #118
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    He opens up more doors to more teams if he agrees on S&T.

  19. #119
    Believe. JuneJive's Avatar
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    No way he's traded.

    Let's move on to more realistic scenarios.

  20. #120
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
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    No way he's traded.

    Let's move on to more realistic scenarios.
    If you’re going to invoke realistic outcomes then you’re not allowed to talk about any trade at all. The spurs aren’t going to make any trades.

  21. #121
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    How would you do that? DDR has a player option for $27.7 million. How do you plan to persuade him in favor of an s-and-t? Then, how do you convince anybody that he's worth more than $27.7 mil?
    Well yeah. If he opts out this Summer it’s because he thinks he will get a large deal (he will). So it makes no difference to him. He can get as much in a S&T as he can in free agency so it makes a lot of sense.

    He will still get to choose his team.

  22. #122
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    He opens up more doors to more teams if he agrees on S&T.
    Exactly.

  23. #123
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Well yeah. If he opts out this Summer ...

    Then he's out $27.7 million.

    Who is going to pay him more?

    Name that team.

  24. #124
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    opts out and s+t at 17/per on a 3+1, half the league would be interested

    Your scenario is that he turns down $27.7 million so that he can make $17 mil. You sure about that?

  25. #125
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    Then he's out $27.7 million.

    Who is going to pay him more?

    Name that team.
    It’s not just about the annual number, it’s about guaranteed money.

    I can see SA themselves paying him 3/75M. But it’s hard to project exactly who will have cap space right now because there are a lot of variables. But Miami and Detroit are two East teams that have a path to max contracts and would be suitors (already linked to DeRozan via trade) that make a lot of sense.

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