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  1. #951
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Bill Clinton and Obama would have beaten Trump because they’re better politicians. Hillary wasn’t nearly as well-liked as either which made her more vulnerable. The centrist Dems have the same problem now with no JFK/Bill/Obama figure while Bernie is clearly the most popular candidate running because he’s authentic.
    Obama ran as a progressive (hope and change!) but ended up being a moderate. I’d hardly call him an example of a successful moderate Dem campaign. Slick Willy is the one instance of centrist Dem success in a presidential election and it only worked because of a 3rd party who siphoned votes from Daddy Bush. Meanwhile Gore Kerry and Shillary were all examples of centrist Dems ing the pooch.

    Centrist Dems simply have a ty track record at winning general elections, and if not for Ross Perot they’d have an even worse track record.

  2. #952
    Mahinmi in ? picnroll's Avatar
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    McGovern was running against a guy with a 60+% approval rating in a country whose voters still believed in it. This is not 1972, it's 2020 and people hate the establishment. I think it would be insane to run another Clinton Democrat after voters gave the Democratic party an enormous middle finger on 11-9. People hate the Democratic party and widely (and correctly IMO) view it as throwing the working class under the bus. The Democrats need to learn something from 2016 instead of blaming Russia.
    McGovern lost every state but Massachusetts. Young voters, I was one, were going to carry him to victory. Sanders will do better than McGovern but I’ll bet you $1000 dollars he loses to Trump and Democrats lose the house. Stupid Millennials would rather lose with Bernie than win with a centrist.

  3. #953
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    McGovern lost every state but Massachusetts. Young voters, I was one, were going to carry him to victory. Sanders will do better than McGovern but I’ll bet you $1000 dollars he loses to Trump and Democrats lose the house. Stupid Millennials would rather lose with Bernie than win with a centrist.
    you think buttman, or Biden or Bloombarf would beat Trump????

    holy moly


    did you miss what happened in 2016?

  4. #954
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    McGovern lost every state but Massachusetts. Young voters, I was one, were going to carry him to victory. Sanders will do better than McGovern but I’ll bet you $1000 dollars he loses to Trump and Democrats lose the house. Stupid Millennials would rather lose with Bernie than win with a centrist.
    Young voters voted for Nixon, your generation was never progressive. Stupid boomers think the Democrats need to keep moving right despite the mandate to stop that four years ago.

  5. #955
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Obama ran as a progressive (hope and change!) but ended up being a moderate. I’d hardly call him an example of a successful moderate Dem campaign. Slick Willy is the one instance of centrist Dem success in a presidential election and it only worked because of a 3rd party who siphoned votes from Daddy Bush. Meanwhile Gore Kerry and Shillary were all examples of centrist Dems ing the pooch.

    Centrist Dems simply have a ty track record at winning general elections, and if not for Ross Perot they’d have an even worse track record.
    Obama 2012 is another example, but he pretty much only won that election because Romney ran on "hey, let's take your Medicare away."

  6. #956
    Mahinmi in ? picnroll's Avatar
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    you think buttman, or Biden or Bloombarf would beat Trump????

    holy moly


    did you miss what happened in 2016?
    You think the Sandman can beat Trump and keep the House? Big part of the reason Dems have the House now is Bloomberg’s money. Not saying he’s a good alternative candidate but keep sniffing the Bernie glue.

  7. #957
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    The length some of you go to discredit people’s political success is astounding just because they don’t conform with your ideology.

    Who was even the last progressive president this country had? Bernie and Warren are a new breed of progressive and up until this point they hadn’t won jack squad so I don’t understand the disdain for the way these parties have run for the past 50 years or so.

  8. #958
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    You think the Sandman can beat Trump and keep the House? Big part of the reason Dems have the House now is Bloomberg’s money. Not saying he’s a good alternative candidate but keep sniffing the Bernie glue.
    the you said?

  9. #959
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    The more important question is who’s gonna be Bernie’s running mate.

  10. #960
    Mahinmi in ? picnroll's Avatar
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    The more important question is who’s gonna be Bernie’s running mate.
    Maybe AOC. That’s who Trump’s probably rooting for. He’s already rooting for Bernie.

  11. #961
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    You think the Sandman can beat Trump and keep the House? Big part of the reason Dems have the House now is Bloomberg’s money. Not saying he’s a good alternative candidate but keep sniffing the Bernie glue.
    sure Bernie can beat Trump. if he gets the black vote which looks good so far and latino which looks also good so far and ignite Obama type excitement which also looks good. he can beat Trump definitely

    no moderate can do all the 3 things I listed above. so its down to Bernie with 50% chance to beat Trump vs a moderate with 0-10% chance


    do the math

  12. #962
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    hater is already calling 2020 both ways

  13. #963
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    hater is already calling 2020 both ways
    huh?

  14. #964
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Bernie with 50% chance to beat Trump
    Bold.

  15. #965
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    you dont think it would be a toss up?

  16. #966
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    sure Bernie can beat Trump. if he gets the black vote which looks good so far and latino which looks also good so far and ignite Obama type excitement which also looks good. he can beat Trump definitely

    no moderate can do all the 3 things I listed above. so its down to Bernie with 50% chance to beat Trump vs a moderate with 0-10% chance


    do the math
    not how the math works.

    Trump having 90% chance of anything. Maybe of bankrupting

  17. #967
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    you dont think it would be a toss up?
    Nope. I called a Trump win regardless. Democrats aren't doing much to change my mind these days.

  18. #968
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    Nope. I called a Trump win regardless.
    ok I disagree

    If Bernie somehow can survive DNC onslaught he has a chance of generating Obama type excitement which would give Trump a run for his money.

    if you want me to call one side I say Bernie would win. but in reality is a virtual toss up

  19. #969
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Nope. I called a Trump win regardless. Democrats aren't doing much to change my mind these days.
    You don’t think Bernie is gonna get the vote out?

    For the record, I agree with you on Trump being re-elected given where things are now.

  20. #970
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    You don’t think Bernie is gonna get the vote out?

    For the record, I agree with you on Trump being re-elected given where things are now.
    That’s not saying much. Things are in disarray right now because everyone running in the dem side and their supporters think they’re the only ones who can be Trump. Trump in the other hand has consolidated support and he can’t still crack 45%.

    I fully expect democrats to come to terms with the eventual nominee and vote. Even Hillary was able to do that. How hard is it to get the 70K votes she left in the 3 states she lost?

    No one currently running in the dem side is more ty than Hillary save for Bloomberg. If we can’t better Hillary’s numbers than we deserve Trump for a term+.

  21. #971
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    That’s not saying much. Things are in disarray right now because everyone running in the dem side and their supporters think they’re the only ones who can be Trump. Trump in the other hand has consolidated support and he can’t still crack 45%.

    I fully expect democrats to come to terms with the eventual nominee and vote. Even Hillary was able to do that. How hard is it to get the 70K votes she left in the 3 states she lost?

    No one currently running in the dem side is more ty than Hillary save for Bloomberg. If we can’t better Hillary’s numbers than we deserve Trump for a term+.
    Yah maybe. I just see Trump having a field day with Bernie because of his past and his policies. This is all arm chair quarter backing on my part though.

  22. #972
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Bernie’s a strong campaigner and debater. He’s a really good candidate overall and he’s authentic and consistent. The major flaws are his age/health and far left policies. But his heart problems may be overrstated too.

  23. #973
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Bernie’s a strong campaigner and debater. He’s a really good candidate overall and he’s authentic and consistent. The major flaws are his age/health and far left policies. But his heart problems may be overrstated too.
    Disagree on his debating skills. He has skill the way Trump does: heavy on the bombast. I don’t think he’s as substantively good as Warren. He resorts to being loud and waving his hands.

  24. #974
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    He also misrepresents facts.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ent/index.html

    Although I seriously doubt Trump is smart enough to pick up on like this.

  25. #975
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    You don’t think Bernie is gonna get the vote out?
    I think for every young person he gets to vote for him, one or two old people afraid of the s-word won't.

    Two ancient men yelling at clouds will make for great debates tho.

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