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  1. #26
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    Disagree - his best defense comes against PGs, not against wings. And a 3-D SG shoots. Murray is extremely reluctant to shoot. He's at his best being an off the ball PG with a point forward type of player next to him, but he still needs to shoot and hit a lot of 3s and he's a long way off right now.

    Murray is definitely more effective guarding 1's

  2. #27
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    I watched all 82 games that season and even though there were some terrible games, there were a lot more thrilling victories that really brought optimism going into the playoffs. This season, even though we did beat some teams, including good ones, I have yet seen one victory that gives me any optimism. When we win, we barely squeak past the opponent and when we lose it is in an embarrassing fashion.
    We had Bertans in the team and his shooting got the Spurs in games that weren't winnable.

  3. #28
    Veteran monty4329's Avatar
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    We had Bertans in the team and his shooting got the Spurs in games that weren't winnable.
    Funny how ST 'experts' last year were roasting Davis as unplayable, while the Spurs had the best bech in the league. Usually they are the same people that are infatuated with Lonnie today. Meantime Bertans scorches it, is worth more than a 1st pick and Lonnie bricks them when not busy jumping, missing dunks, getting his layups blocked or trying to find his lost man on D.

    PO in-game management aside, last year was masterful on so many levels.

  4. #29
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Disagree - his best defense comes against PGs, not against wings. And a 3-D SG shoots. Murray is extremely reluctant to shoot. He's at his best being an off the ball PG with a point forward type of player next to him, but he still needs to shoot and hit a lot of 3s and he's a long way off right now.
    Yes he's reluctant to shoot, but shoots a nice percentage. He just has to up the volume. I still think he should start at the 2 and let Derrick White play point. That would fix a lot on this team and it would let DJ focus on shooting 3s and defending. If you groom him into a PG he has to work on too many things at once

  5. #30
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    Takes a season regardless. But in saying that, Pop had used him differently. Spurs should be playing faster and he should be going after offensive rebounds.
    Faster with LMA?

  6. #31
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    LMA should be playing less so he can run more.

  7. #32
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Funny how ST 'experts' last year were roasting Davis as unplayable, while the Spurs had the best bech in the league. Usually they are the same people that are infatuated with Lonnie today. Meantime Bertans scorches it, is worth more than a 1st pick and Lonnie bricks them when not busy jumping, missing dunks, getting his layups blocked or trying to find his lost man on D.

    PO in-game management aside, last year was masterful on so many levels.
    Bertans was unplayable against the Nuggets. He is also playing on a bad side right now and for one of the worst defensive sides. So no one is noticing other than box scores.

  8. #33
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    LMA should be playing less so he can run more.
    So we're not gonna play defense then? We're essentially the '05 Suns?

    I think the Spurs' bread and butter is their half-court game. That's where Demar and LMA excel at. Unfortunately, we haven't found a point guard to run the offense. Heck, even Tony Parker could run this show here, and do a better job, than DJ. You just need someone who can run the offense, and run it well, and we'd be good.

  9. #34
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    So we're not gonna play defense then? We're essentially the '05 Suns?

    I think the Spurs' bread and butter is their half-court game. That's where Demar and LMA excel at. Unfortunately, we haven't found a point guard to run the offense. Heck, even Tony Parker could run this show here, and do a better job, than DJ. You just need someone who can run the offense, and run it well, and we'd be good.
    Sure, a player like Teague would run our offense well. Still, with the team we have, Murray, White, Mills, Walker, even DD play well with more tempo. Gay is probably the one that plays the slowest this year.

  10. #35
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    Sure, a player like Teague would run our offense well. Still, with the team we have, Murray, White, Mills, Walker, even DD play well with more tempo. Gay is probably the one that plays the slowest this year.
    I still think Murray is too loose with the basketball. I agree with everyone though. It just makes me cringe every time I see DJM handle the basketball.

  11. #36
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    This video is an example that when Murray handles the basketball, the Spurs' offense just looks discombobulated. These are full highlights.


  12. #37
    Believe.
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    mans is coming off an ACL injury. the sniffer squad needs its targets
    What does acl have to do with low iq, no dribbling or passing skills and mo court vision?

  13. #38
    Believe.
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    LMA is the worst player on the team if you factor in how much money he is making and never really moves the needle on offense or defense. He is flat out M.I.A. in a lot of games. DJM will turn out better than average. DJM, LW4 and Poeltl would all be a better player in another system (freedom to be yourself when playing) just like Bertans and Kawhi. The Spurs are known for taking g-league players and making them look better than what they really are as noticed when they some other team signs them for money and they don't produce the same but players with potential the Spurs hold back their careers.

  14. #39
    Club Rookie of The Year DJR210's Avatar
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    He was a selling point to Kawhi. Maybe that’s why Kawhi left.

  15. #40
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    This season is depressing.

  16. #41
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I've said this many times, but Murray got way too much hype in his second season. On offense, he was terrible outside of a couple of good (nationally televised) games. He was never a defensive stopper in the sense that he couldn't shut anyone down. Instead, his defense was supposed to rely on a more nebulous off-ball effect that he had the benefit of doing because he had Danny Green (who, no guys, was actually one of the best three-and-D wings in NBA history and not a expected level for young players to reach), Kyle Anderson (who's basically a bigger and much slower version of Murray defensively) and Aldridge. DJM synergized really well with a strong defensive core but was mistakenly thought to be the engine of that core rather than its primary beneficiary. I made that argument back then and got a ton of push-back by folks who just looked at his on-offs and considered defense a one-dimensional thing. He wasn't a bad defender, especially when you add in the off-ball, and he actually did improve in some aspects this year due to gaining more muscle. But his flaws (including his lack of defensive BBIQ) are a lot more apparent when he has to be the defensive foundation rather than just the tone-setter.

    Offensively, Murray's lack of handles is disturbing for a fourth-year player. He's arguably the worst driver on the team. According to NBA.com's stats, Murray is the worst driver on the team outside of Walker, and in Lonnie's case, it's more because he can't freaking finish at the rim. Murray turns the ball over way more. White and DeRozan are both elite at it. Mills is pretty good. Even Forbes is average at it. His improved shooting gives him hope, but he's not knocking them down at a rate where you can consider him the primary off-ball shooter in a slower lineup. I've frequently said that he'd've been better off coming off the bench this season. It's amazing that Pop seems to have completely alienated Carroll and strained his relationship with Walker but quickly caved to Murray when he was benched. That was a fight worth having. though it should have been avoided in the first place. Right now, I think he just needs to "git gud" rather than trying to build a unit to feature him. Maybe handles aren't fixable, but if that's the case, he needs to shoot better and more confidently and fix his finishing to where he can score on back cuts and rim runs at a decent level.

    Just to be clear, Metu is the worst player on the team by a lot. Forbes is definitely the worst player in the rotation and Murray probably isn't too far ahead of him. Walker and Beli have actually been interchangeable in terms of impact, which has a ton to do with Pop not focusing on working Lonnie into the offense. But Walker's individual defense has been really bad this year. His impact stats actually put him pretty high for his position, but when it comes to actually stopping people from scoring on him, he's arguably at Forbes levels of bad. Clearly, being pulled every time Walker has a lapse hasn't fixed the issue, so Pop probably should just let the guy figure it out. Murray's in that tier with Gay and Lyles where you expect him to be a good contributor but he has so many bad or disappointing games that you can't count on it. Not the worst player but clearly behind DMDR, LMA, Poeltl, Mills and White right now.

  17. #42
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    I've said this many times, but Murray got way too much hype in his second season. On offense, he was terrible outside of a couple of good (nationally televised) games. He was never a defensive stopper in the sense that he couldn't shut anyone down. Instead, his defense was supposed to rely on a more nebulous off-ball effect that he had the benefit of doing because he had Danny Green (who, no guys, was actually one of the best three-and-D wings in NBA history and not a expected level for young players to reach), Kyle Anderson (who's basically a bigger and much slower version of Murray defensively) and Aldridge. DJM synergized really well with a strong defensive core but was mistakenly thought to be the engine of that core rather than its primary beneficiary. I made that argument back then and got a ton of push-back by folks who just looked at his on-offs and considered defense a one-dimensional thing. He wasn't a bad defender, especially when you add in the off-ball, and he actually did improve in some aspects this year due to gaining more muscle. But his flaws (including his lack of defensive BBIQ) are a lot more apparent when he has to be the defensive foundation rather than just the tone-setter.

    Offensively, Murray's lack of handles is disturbing for a fourth-year player. He's arguably the worst driver on the team. According to NBA.com's stats, Murray is the worst driver on the team outside of Walker, and in Lonnie's case, it's more because he can't freaking finish at the rim. Murray turns the ball over way more. White and DeRozan are both elite at it. Mills is pretty good. Even Forbes is average at it. His improved shooting gives him hope, but he's not knocking them down at a rate where you can consider him the primary off-ball shooter in a slower lineup. I've frequently said that he'd've been better off coming off the bench this season. It's amazing that Pop seems to have completely alienated Carroll and strained his relationship with Walker but quickly caved to Murray when he was benched. That was a fight worth having. though it should have been avoided in the first place. Right now, I think he just needs to "git gud" rather than trying to build a unit to feature him. Maybe handles aren't fixable, but if that's the case, he needs to shoot better and more confidently and fix his finishing to where he can score on back cuts and rim runs at a decent level.


    Just to be clear, Metu is the worst player on the team by a lot. Forbes is definitely the worst player in the rotation and Murray probably isn't too far ahead of him.
    Forms is way ahead of everyone for the worst player in the rotation le.

    Walker and Beli have actually been interchangeable in terms of impact, which has a ton to do with Pop not focusing on working Lonnie into the offense.
    Kinda fair. Not only not working him into the offense, but also completely neutering him. A lot more timid than he was earlier in the year. Pop has basically let him know that he sees him as just a defender and that that's how he will get minutes (this yr at least).


    But Walker's individual defense has been really bad this year. His impact stats actually put him pretty high for his position, but when it comes to actually stopping people from scoring on him, he's arguably at Forbes levels of bad.
    Blasphemous.

  18. #43
    Veteran monty4329's Avatar
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    Bertans was unplayable against the Nuggets. He is also playing on a bad side right now and for one of the worst defensive sides. So no one is noticing other than box scores.
    Actually he was roasted here the whole season, not just for the PO series. True that he now plays for a horrible team where is easier to find minutes and pad stats. Still, you have to make those shots. We missed him badly this seson.

  19. #44
    Veteran jermaine's Avatar
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    This is true. But dumb ass Spurs fans want some kinda hope so they think this is our defensive savior. He ing sucks ass. A whole yr to sit an he can shoot 50% from the field. Posting IG videos against the Spurs staff. Fooled all of our asses

  20. #45
    #POPOUT
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    DjM iS aN aLl StAr CaLiBeR pLayEr

  21. #46
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
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    He's been bad cause he's not a PG. He's a 3-and-D SG and can be a better one than Danny Green
    Thank you, sir! Been saying it from the get-go. Pop is ruining both Derrick and Dijon by forcing them to play out-of-position.

  22. #47
    Believe. BlackAndWhite's Avatar
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    I agree. I remember when the spurs were eliminated by the nuggets, most of the players were in disbelief that it happened to them. They definitely believed they could have gone much farther. Can't say this mentality exists this season.

  23. #48
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    He's been not great. But he has also shown flashes of greatness here and there. He has been incredibly disappointing this year for sure, but we need to keep in mind this dude is coming off an ACL tear and didn't play for a year. I'll give him another season before I give up on him

  24. #49
    Believe. paperboy77's Avatar
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    Y’all are deflecting. Pop is the problem. He should be playing to their strengths. Murray should be playing tough d and hitting the boards. A distant second should be shooting. Start DJ and White and play them 30+ minutes. Shorten the rotation to DJ, DW, DD, LA, TL. JP, PM and LW. Ride or die with this group.

  25. #50
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Murray staring is one of the reasons this team is garbage. This dude can't run an offense, doesn't know how to run in transition and is reluctant to shoot. White is much better and coming into the season I thought that was laughable but when watching the Spurs I feel so much more comfortable watching White run the show. Then you have Spurs fans on twitter that defend DJ like he's god but he sucks right now and if he's your starting PG you will be in the lottery for years. If the Spurs don't get a top 5 pick I'll be glad when they Draft Nico Mannon as the PG of the future.
    Nah...he doesn't have to be a prototypical pg...he needs to be a scoring and defense pg...the one thing I agree with u on is that dude is timid as ...he needs to be taking 15 shots a game at least, but he has been neutered by Pop and cowered into submission by LMA and DDR

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