Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 289101112
Results 276 to 293 of 293
  1. #276
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    76,197
    Ok, so DeMar doesn't stack up well against once in a generation type guys like Nephew, Giannis, and LeBron. Fair.

    How does Brent stack up with elite starting SGs?


    p.s. I honestly can't believe I'm having a Forms vs DeMar discussion. It's like comparing KIAs to Porsches.
    IMO, you are having the wrong discussion. Thats why. No one should expect DeRozan to compare to Lebron etc...but if hes that good and a top 20-25 player how come he does not stack up to any of them? Despite being on winning teams and putting up numbers?

    The point is asking why not see what Derozan can do with White/Murray is the issue. White/Murray will cover up for everyone which is why they are impactful even with Forbes and not DeRozan.

    Sure, DeRozan would succeed with White/Murray - most would. But you don’t pay top dollar for that is the point especially when the guy is aging and will have zero chance to live up to the type of money he will command 2-4 years from now.


    The real question is: Why is it that on paper losing DeRozan should mean a lot less wins and the offense cratering, but that in reality that doesn’t seem to happen?

    Edit: Just checked - on offense when DeRozan is on the floor SA has an offensive rating of 112.7. When he is off? 112.5. So virtually the exact same. Defensively? When he’s on the floor opponents have a offensive rating of 115.5. When he is off? They have an offensive rating of 110.5.

    So when he’s playing SA is losing by 3 points. When he is not playing SA is winning by 2 points.
    Last edited by DPG21920; 02-12-2020 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #277
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    3,580
    Ok, so DeMar doesn't stack up well against once in a generation type guys like Nephew, Giannis, and LeBron. Fair.

    How does Brent stack up with elite starting SGs?


    p.s. I honestly can't believe I'm having a Forms vs DeMar discussion. It's like comparing KIAs to Porsches.


    I don't get why you're obsessed with Forbes... yes, the undrafted undersized guy who makes under $3mil per is not that great. I don't expect him to be. The highest paid player on the team should have maximum impact, and he doesn't. No one is comparing LeBron and Caruso or Giannis and DiVincenzo, so the fact that we're even having a Demar/Forbes discussion shows how minor a player DeRozan is. His salary is a huge impediment to improving the team. Forbes's salary is meaningless.

  3. #278
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    25,017
    Not about salaries or extensions. Nobody is saying to throw the bank at him or to extend him.

    He's still here through at least the end of the season though. It's very possible that a team with DD/White/Murray/Lonnie playing a lot of minutes, sharing the court a lot doesn't have a high enough ceiling to warrant DD getting paid. But what's the harm in giving it a test run for the remaining 30 games? If it doesn't work out you can still move on from DD and you feel a of a lot better about it than you would about just pulling the plug without ever giving it a fair shot.

  4. #279
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    76,197
    Not about salaries or extensions. Nobody is saying to throw the bank at him or to extend him.

    He's still here through at least the end of the season though. It's very possible that a team with DD/White/Murray/Lonnie playing a lot of minutes, sharing the court a lot doesn't have a high enough ceiling to warrant DD getting paid. But what's the harm in giving it a test run for the remaining 30 games? If it doesn't work out you can still move on from DD and you feel a of a lot better about it then just pulling the plug without ever giving it a fair shot.
    Well, you can’t just leave money out of the equation. If he was willing to say for Bryn Forbes money, fine, sure. But that is not the case. He wants to get a max deal and even if the does not get that, you are looking at 3/75 at least. No way at 25M is it even worth a discussion with his metrics.

    Like I said, he plays with the same guys everyone else does yet the team consistently is better with him off the court vs on.

    Can he be a player on a winning team? Yes. Is he the most “talented” player the Spurs? Yes. Does it make sense at his age, with his impact to sink more money into him and do the type of work it would take to build a perfect team around him to where you can cover up for all his weaknesses in order to have a shot at winning? Absolutely not - especially since he’s aging and will not be improving.

    And I think it’s somewhat the opposite of what you are saying. Moving on from DeRozan means you need to see how the youth does without him and if you can have a good offense without him (because the defense you know for sure will improve). That’s what you have to find out.

  5. #280
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    25,017
    I don't get why you're obsessed with Forbes... yes, the undrafted undersized guy who makes under $3mil per is not that great. I don't expect him to be. The highest paid player on the team should have maximum impact, and he doesn't. No one is comparing LeBron and Caruso or Giannis and DiVincenzo, so the fact that we're even having a Demar/Forbes discussion shows how minor a player DeRozan is. His salary is a huge impediment to improving the team. Forbes's salary is meaningless.
    He's playing the third most minutes on the team, bruh.

    I am obsessed with not sucking. Easiest way to go about doing that is to stop playing said undrafted, undersized guy that is not that great.

  6. #281
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    76,197
    And look, DeRozan is having one of his best seasons ever honestly (taking away the semi poor start to the year). A lot of his stats look very positive. Yet, again, somehow his on/off is still poor.

    It’s truly perplexing; one of the true case studies of certain stats v eye test etc..But there is consistent data that only seems to impact him vs other “stars”.

    Big picture, right or wrong, with him as the best player the teams ceiling sucks and they aren’t winning. Is that all his fault? No. The team was not built for him and then post trade SA did nothing to reshape the roster more effectively around him to give him a real shot. That’s not on him.

    But we are where we are. His contract is looming large and there is too much work to do with such poor evidence to justify investing any more money into him. He’s been a great Spur, and even better person but it’s not a good fit.

    Kawhi f’d him and the Spurs and it’s time to move on.

  7. #282
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    25,017
    I just don't agree with him getting blamed. I don't think we've been able to see the true ceiling of SA with him as the best player because of Pop's rotations. Doesn't mean I'm willing to extend him to find out. I just want to take my test run. That's it.

  8. #283
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    76,197
    I just don't agree with him getting blamed. I don't think we've been able to see the true ceiling of SA with him as the best player because of Pop's rotations. Doesn't mean I'm willing to extend him to find out. I just want to take my test run. That's it.
    No I agree with that. It’s not a blame thing. He’s done his thing and been a good Spur. It’s just the situation imo.

  9. #284
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    14,298
    Well, you can’t just leave money out of the equation. If he was willing to say for Bryn Forbes money, fine, sure. But that is not the case. He wants to get a max deal and even if the does not get that, you are looking at 3/75 at least. No way at 25M is it even worth a discussion with his metrics.

    Like I said, he plays with the same guys everyone else does yet the team consistently is better with him off the court vs on.

    Can he be a player on a winning team? Yes. Is he the most “talented” player the Spurs? Yes. Does it make sense at his age, with his impact to sink more money into him and do the type of work it would take to build a perfect team around him to where you can cover up for all his weaknesses in order to have a shot at winning? Absolutely not - especially since he’s aging and will not be improving.

    And I think it’s somewhat the opposite of what you are saying. Moving on from DeRozan means you need to see how the youth does without him and if you can have a good offense without him (because the defense you know for sure will improve). That’s what you have to find out.
    Actually, even at Bryn's money why would you keep a career net negative player? Maybe if he agreed to go to the bench. Playing +/- 20 minutes against opponents' benches he might not be a net negative...

  10. #285
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Post Count
    10,605
    Actually, even at Bryn's money why would you keep a career net negative player? Maybe if he agreed to go to the bench. Playing +/- 20 minutes against opponents' benches he might not be a net negative...
    I don't think 'if he agreed' is the question. He doesn't have a say of when or if he plays. I think it's promising him playing less minutes of late and yes his rating will surely improve if he's playing less.

    The DDR dilemma is very concerning in that we are not winning despite his good numbers. This next 28 game run will tell the tale on what happens this summer.

  11. #286
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    14,298
    I don't think 'if he agreed' is the question. He doesn't have a say of when or if he plays. I think it's promising him playing less minutes of late and yes his rating will surely improve if he's playing less.

    The DDR dilemma is very concerning in that we are not winning despite his good numbers. This next 28 game run will tell the tale on what happens this summer.
    In a vacuum, no player needs to agree to a role. In reality, however, disgruntled players often become cancerous.

  12. #287
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Post Count
    10,605
    In a vacuum, no player needs to agree to a role. In reality, however, disgruntled players often become cancerous.
    I don't think Forbes would be that kind of player, as the Spurs was a mighty big break for him. I've often wondered if he wouldn't prefer not being a starter. He has heard the noise about his defensive liabilities. I don't think he would become a bad locker room guy if demoted. You are right about certain players though, (cue Capt. Jack).

  13. #288
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Post Count
    135
    DDR is more than a competent star for a strong regular season performance. He is unproven (or proven short to the mark) when the Heat (not just Miami with Lebron) is on in the playoffs. He is also best suited in non leadership roles.

    At the level he has been showing recently, had he been with the right supporting cast the Spurs could easily be deep in playoffs contention. The issue is exactly this, his surrounding playing environment, not him. From one season to the next, the drop on consistent performance by White and LMA is the key element. These two carried the load for most of the 18-19 reg season. Secondary is the perimeter shooting loss with Bertans gone and the cooling off of Belinelli and Forbes. Lastly, Murray taking longer than expected in converting promise to tangible results on the court. In brief, he is pulling his weight better than than most in this team.

  14. #289
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    14,298
    I don't think Forbes would be that kind of player, as the Spurs was a mighty big break for him. I've often wondered if he wouldn't prefer not being a starter. He has heard the noise about his defensive liabilities. I don't think he would become a bad locker room guy if demoted. You are right about certain players though, (cue Capt. Jack).
    I was talking about Dumbmar.

  15. #290
    Believe. San Antonio Slayer's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    253
    I watched the whole OKC game hoping to see the beautiful game without DDR and with Walker as a starter... , we are totally clueless offensively. Lyles is the only player developed so far. and we would be worse than the Cavs if we traded LMA. we just don't deserve that 8th seed, !!!

  16. #291
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Post Count
    3,379
    I watched the whole OKC game hoping to see the beautiful game without DDR and with Walker as a starter... , we are totally clueless offensively. Lyles is the only player developed so far. and we would be worse than the Cavs if we traded LMA. we just don't deserve that 8th seed, !!!
    The beautiful game is dead and gone, my man. Watching a '20 Spurs game and hoping to see that is just setting yourself up for disappointment. The Spurs actually had a solid offensive outing (for their average that is), and beat a good PO contending team in OKC.

  17. #292
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Post Count
    1,153
    I watched the whole OKC game hoping to see the beautiful game without DDR and with Walker as a starter... , we are totally clueless offensively. Lyles is the only player developed so far. and we would be worse than the Cavs if we traded LMA. we just don't deserve that 8th seed, !!!
    This was a good game for this team. Beat a solid okc team

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •