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  1. #151
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    This dude is my least favorite young guy on the roster. He's had much time to buff up and he still looks like a twig.

  2. #152
    Believe. Prime BEEF's Avatar
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    Would love to trade him while the other GMs still think he has upside. Wait another season and there won’t be a lot of interest. If DDR actually opted in, then I’d think you could get some value back for a Murray/DDR pairing.

  3. #153
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    Would love to trade him while the other GMs still think he has upside. Wait another season and there won’t be a lot of interest. If DDR actually opted in, then I’d think you could get some value back for a Murray/DDR pairing.
    agree, thats amazing how much overhyped u can be as a PG while u cannot even pass well or hit 3s.

  4. #154
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    We need Murray for what he could be not what he is.

  5. #155
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    We need Murray for what he could be not what he is.
    but he is not improving at all and whats worse he had a serious injury. What do u expect from him? he wont be much better than he is now but his value now is the highest which gives spurs a chance to get someone better.

  6. #156
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    Why do people keep saying he cant shoot 3s? he made 37.8 this last year on 1.6 per game. As his confidence grows and DDR and LMA leave he will start shooting more. Only 2 teams on avg shot better then him.

  7. #157
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    but he is not improving at all and whats worse he had a serious injury. What do u expect from him? he wont be much better than he is now but his value now is the highest which gives spurs a chance to get someone better.
    He is improving. I think some people think he should be challenging for MVP by now and if not then he is not improving.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...murrade01.html
    Per 36 Minutes

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    Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    2016-17 20 SAS NBA PG 38 8 322 5.6 13.0 .431 1.0 2.6 .391 4.6 10.4 .441 2.3 3.4 .700 0.7 4.0 4.7 5.4 0.9 0.7 4.2 3.2 14.5
    2017-18 21 SAS NBA PG 81 48 1743 5.6 12.6 .443 0.2 0.7 .265 5.4 11.9 .454 2.2 3.1 .709 2.3 7.2 9.5 4.8 2.0 0.6 2.8 3.1 13.5
    2019-20 23 SAS NBA PG 58 50 1447 6.3 13.4 .475 0.8 2.2 .378 5.5 11.1 .494 1.9 2.3 .798 1.7 6.7 8.3 5.9 2.5 0.4 2.7 3.2 15.4
    Career NBA 177 106 3512 5.9 12.9 .456 0.5 1.5 .354 5.4 11.4 .469 2.1 2.8 .739 1.9 6.7 8.6 5.3 2.1 0.5 2.9 3.2 14.4

    I like looking at per 36 as I feel it is one of the best way to judge players.
    FG % is up 3-4% which is actually a pretty big jump in a short time. I think this will slow down in increases as he already shoots a good % for a guard.
    3PT % is down from rookie year but up 11% from last year. that shows that high 30 and maybe low 40s for 3PT % should be able to be done. I would say that first year he had better players to play off of and did not have to handle to load as much so it probably inflated his rookie numbers a bit.
    2pt% went up 4-5 %. once again a pretty big jump and will probably slow down in its increases.
    Ft% went up 9% from last year and 10% from rookie year. this is huge improvements and hopefully he can keep it this high. 80% is not bad would hope he could get higher but his improvement here is so good that dont know how much better it could get.
    Reb are down almost 1 per 36 which is not good but I am thinking that could be something he was told less to focus on and told to get back and play D. Still up a lot from rookie year. Also 8.3 per 36 is not bad for a guard.
    ast has gone up to almost 6 per 36. while not good not as bad as I bet some would think either. I would think starting pg probably are between 6-7 on avg per 36.
    Steals has gone up every year. He is at 2.5 per 36 up a half from last year and 1.6 for his rookie year. once again a big jump. this is really high for a player
    Blocks is down which is the only thing that I could say has not improved.
    Tov is down slightly and I think is the bigest area for improvement. This may have some to do with him handling the ball more.
    Pts are up slightly but I could see this going up more as he becomes more important. think about the game LMA did not play.

    He is improving and is already a pretty good player. He does not have the name recognition as some other players but that may be more because he plays on the Spurs and and a bigger team.

  8. #158
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    He is improving. I think some people think he should be challenging for MVP by now and if not then he is not improving.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...murrade01.html
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    Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    2016-17 20 SAS NBA PG 38 8 322 5.6 13.0 .431 1.0 2.6 .391 4.6 10.4 .441 2.3 3.4 .700 0.7 4.0 4.7 5.4 0.9 0.7 4.2 3.2 14.5
    2017-18 21 SAS NBA PG 81 48 1743 5.6 12.6 .443 0.2 0.7 .265 5.4 11.9 .454 2.2 3.1 .709 2.3 7.2 9.5 4.8 2.0 0.6 2.8 3.1 13.5
    2019-20 23 SAS NBA PG 58 50 1447 6.3 13.4 .475 0.8 2.2 .378 5.5 11.1 .494 1.9 2.3 .798 1.7 6.7 8.3 5.9 2.5 0.4 2.7 3.2 15.4
    Career NBA 177 106 3512 5.9 12.9 .456 0.5 1.5 .354 5.4 11.4 .469 2.1 2.8 .739 1.9 6.7 8.6 5.3 2.1 0.5 2.9 3.2 14.4

    I like looking at per 36 as I feel it is one of the best way to judge players.
    FG % is up 3-4% which is actually a pretty big jump in a short time. I think this will slow down in increases as he already shoots a good % for a guard.
    3PT % is down from rookie year but up 11% from last year. that shows that high 30 and maybe low 40s for 3PT % should be able to be done. I would say that first year he had better players to play off of and did not have to handle to load as much so it probably inflated his rookie numbers a bit.
    2pt% went up 4-5 %. once again a pretty big jump and will probably slow down in its increases.
    Ft% went up 9% from last year and 10% from rookie year. this is huge improvements and hopefully he can keep it this high. 80% is not bad would hope he could get higher but his improvement here is so good that dont know how much better it could get.
    Reb are down almost 1 per 36 which is not good but I am thinking that could be something he was told less to focus on and told to get back and play D. Still up a lot from rookie year. Also 8.3 per 36 is not bad for a guard.
    ast has gone up to almost 6 per 36. while not good not as bad as I bet some would think either. I would think starting pg probably are between 6-7 on avg per 36.
    Steals has gone up every year. He is at 2.5 per 36 up a half from last year and 1.6 for his rookie year. once again a big jump. this is really high for a player
    Blocks is down which is the only thing that I could say has not improved.
    Tov is down slightly and I think is the bigest area for improvement. This may have some to do with him handling the ball more.
    Pts are up slightly but I could see this going up more as he becomes more important. think about the game LMA did not play.

    He is improving and is already a pretty good player. He does not have the name recognition as some other players but that may be more because he plays on the Spurs and and a bigger team.
    marginal changes, empty stats bc his playing style didnt change, still no improvements in passing skils and 3pt shooting, making mistakes during important moments, still skinny asf (no changes in an easiest way to improve) and whats more he will be 24 next season. My prediction is constant improvement like a few % each yr in some categories but nothing more. He wont be a star, he wont be a guy u can build a team around at least he can be like third best player in a team. Saying that he can challange for MVP is just ridiculous.

  9. #159
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    marginal changes, empty stats bc his playing style didnt change, still no improvements in passing skils and 3pt shooting, making mistakes during important moments, still skinny asf (no changes in an easiest way to improve) and whats more he will be 24 next season. My prediction is constant improvement like a few % each yr in some categories but nothing more. He wont be a star, he wont be a guy u can build a team around at least he can be like third best player in a team. Saying that he can challange for MVP is just ridiculous.
    His 3 pt shooting HAS improved, and Gervin played his whole career as a stick. Some body frames aren’t designed to put on massive bulk. His assists/36 are up. His TOS/36 are down.

    It’s OK to hate on players, but just recognize that’s what you’re doing. He missed an entire season, which setback his development, but he is definitely making progress.

  10. #160
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Murray is not improving at all? Wtf? He's pretty inconsistent but to act like he hasn't improved at all is just false

  11. #161
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    marginal changes, empty stats bc his playing style didnt change, still no improvements in passing skils and 3pt shooting, making mistakes during important moments, still skinny asf (no changes in an easiest way to improve) and whats more he will be 24 next season. My prediction is constant improvement like a few % each yr in some categories but nothing more. He wont be a star, he wont be a guy u can build a team around at least he can be like third best player in a team. Saying that he can challange for MVP is just ridiculous.
    Nah you suck at basketball analysis and probably have never actually played basketball. I'm not a huge of Murray but dude has improved his shooting by far. When he first came in to the league he had no jumpshot at all just a weird ass floater. Now he can hit he elbow jumper at will and is becoming a better 3pt shooter. His defense in man on man situations is still elite even after injury. I think there is no way in he'll ever compete for an MVP trophy but your analysis of him and most other players is off.

  12. #162
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    his improvement is marginal and he wont be a PG like u need in this basketball era (if u want ur team to be a contender ofc). The only way is 1) he improves much more in a 3pt shooting or 2) u surround him with a 3pt shooter and he improves much more his court vision and passing skills. The clock is ticking.

  13. #163
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    Another way to look at is comparing players at about the same time. this does get harder as some have more college or are older/younger.
    I could to look at
    DJM 19-20 season 3rd year as pro age 23
    TP 03 04 season 3rd year as pro age 21 (chose as he is our best PG)
    Kawhi 13 14 season. 3rd year as pro age 22. (chose as our most recent best player (also this year he won FMVP).
    White 18-19 season 2nd year as Pro age 24. (chose as he is who most people want to replace Murray)

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...naka01&y4=2014

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    Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    1 Kawhi Leonard 2013-14 22 66 65 1923 6.3 12.1 .522 1.3 3.4 .379 5.0 8.7 .579 1.9 2.4 .802 1.4 6.3 7.7 2.5 2.1 0.9 1.5 2.4 15.8
    2 Dejounte Murray 2019-20 23 58 50 1447 6.3 13.4 .475 0.8 2.2 .378 5.5 11.1 .494 1.9 2.3 .798 1.7 6.7 8.3 5.9 2.5 0.4 2.7 3.2 15.4
    3 Tony Parker 2003-04 21 75 75 2577 5.9 13.2 .447 0.9 2.8 .312 5.0 10.4 .483 2.7 3.8 .702 0.6 2.7 3.3 5.7 0.9 0.1 2.5 2.1 15.4
    4 Derrick White 2018-19 24 67 55 1728 5.4 11.3 .479 1.0 3.0 .338 4.4 8.4 .529 2.0 2.6 .772 0.7 4.4 5.1 5.5 1.4 1.0 2.0 3.0 13.8

    FG% Kawhi wins and has a large lead. He shoots a good % for his position. White and DJM are really close on %. .004.
    3pt% Kawhi wins again but just by .001 or DJM. DJM is also 4% higher then white. quite a large spread. White is actually closer to Parker then he is to DJM. One thing needed is Shooting but DJM wins 3 pt%.
    2pt% is one of the worst places for DJM. Parker is worse but was younger. I am hoping DJM can improve his close range fg% which would help his 2pt% and and fg%. as people start respecting his shot lanes should open for him. Still at almost 50% is not bad.
    ft% is second just behind Kawhi by .004. He also beats White by big 2% here. This was a good year for DJm so I am interested to see how his ft% are next year.
    reb- DJM wins. he even beats Kawhi.
    Ast- DJM wins again beats Parker and white.
    Steals- DJm wins. Over 1 better then white.
    Blocks- I was actually surprised to see white was higher then Kawhi. DJm came in third.
    Tov- DJM is the worst here. Not to much of a surprise as this has been mentioned that he needs to cut down on these.
    Pts White is the lowest but they are all pretty close.

    Did look at doing White for this year but felt last year was better as he is 2 years older and this compares starters to starters.
    Also looked at parker for the next year. but this is when Parker starts to tae off. I also hope DJM has similer upswing. This year also puts Parker at higher ast and higher TO then DJm. Both are pretty close though.

    here is a link to that.
    https://www.basketball-reference.com...naka01&y4=2014

  14. #164
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    his improvement is marginal and he wont be a PG like u need in this basketball era (if u want ur team to be a contender ofc). The only way is 1) he improves much more in a 3pt shooting or 2) u surround him with a 3pt shooter and he improves much more his court vision and passing skills. The clock is ticking.
    How much better do you want him to get. He is probably in the top 20 in 3pt% this year for all PG in the league that play a decent amount of time. He shot .378. Only 2 big names I saw in front of him for the year was Lillard .394 and Irving .394.

  15. #165
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    How much better do you want him to get. He is probably in the top 20 in 3pt% this year for all PG in the league that play a decent amount of time. He shot .378. Only 2 big names I saw in front of him for the year was Lillard .394 and Irving .394.
    I agree. If Dejounte can increase his 3PTA volume while keeping his percentage around 38 he will be a solid contributor from distance. Low 40s would be gravy.

  16. #166
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    3pt% without context is foolish. He's low volume and only attempts wide open catch and shoot ones. The likes of Lillard and Irving are high and moderate volume and shoot a significant amount of moderate to contested pullups. Their shooting is in another stratosphere.

    There's definitely been marked progress in his form, but he still has a long way to go to get the defense to respect him. Until then, he'll remain an off ball liability.

    He's a difficult piece to build with because he's not dynamic enough on ball to be a primary scorer/play maker, nor (yet?) a good enough shooter to space the floor for those that are.

  17. #167
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    3pt% without context is foolish. He's low volume and only attempts wide open catch and shoot ones. The likes of Lillard and Irving are high and moderate volume and shoot a significant amount of moderate to contested pullups. Their shooting is in another stratosphere.

    There's definitely been marked progress in his form, but he still has a long way to go to get the defense to respect him. Until then, he'll remain an off ball liability.

    He's a difficult piece to build with because he's not dynamic enough on ball to be a primary scorer/play maker, nor (yet?) a good enough shooter to space the floor for those that are.
    So the first paragraph you make a point but he has to start somewhere. Getting the % up and then as he becomes more of a focal point will allow him to shoot more. The Spurs also have traditionally shot a lower number of3s. This is part of Pops coaching.

    2nd paragraph will get more respect as he goes on.

    3rd. He is easier then DDR. DDr does not shoot hardly any 3s and shoots at a lower percentage.

  18. #168
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Some hilariously bad takes on here, per par - SpursTalk just don't stop the grind, huh...? Lol at thinking a 23yo player won't keep on improving and has already reached his ceiling. Not surprising to see local re Holdren sayind DJ shouldn't be in the NBA... Just like that re Monty saying Lonnie shouldn't be in the NBA before his 28pt tour de force on the Rockets. Don't people learn from others' re ations being proven wrong?

    Dejounte's low number of 3pt attempts is a symptom of a much larger problem - the Spurs as a whole are way behind the curve in terms of distance shooting, and no player has a truly green light *except* for the "designated shooters" of the team, which just so happen to be defensive sieve, fake-hustle, "high-character" guys like Forbes or Patty. And a large part of the blame is on Pop himself. Yes, White ought to be more confident in his game, same as DJ or Lonnie - but at the forefront, a coach dictates how his team is going to play. When's the last time you've seen a play drawn for a DJ 3-pointer? Yeah, me neither. As a matter of fact, regarding Lonnie's game-tying shot against the Rockets, I'm positive he wouldn't have been able to take that shot had the Spurs taken a timeout - Pop would've drawn a play for a Patty 3 with Lonnie as decoy, like he did many times before, for starters at the end of Manu's jersey retirement ceremony game against the Cavs (iirc?).

    I'm confident that, given a new coach that's in tune with the modern game and not only doesn't leash the young players, but encourages them to take these shots, Dejounte's shooting will progress. As for his size - not every player has to be built like a tree, as Ex well pointed out, and luckily Lonnie looks to have hit the weight room during quarantine, so hopefully we've got rim attacks and strength covered on that front. I'd die to see a lineup of Dejounte-Keldon-Lonnie with maybe Gay (weak link) at the 4 and Poeltl at the 5. The Spurs sorely need a true 4 for the time being though, until Samanic matures enough to contribute. And, most of all, I want to see the glaring trash that is DeMar DeRozan off this team. Maybe LMA too, he takes up developmental minutes from Jakob... But shooting DD into the sun is a priority. Or should be, anyways.

  19. #169
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    So the first paragraph you make a point but he has to start somewhere. Getting the % up and then as he becomes more of a focal point will allow him to shoot more. The Spurs also have traditionally shot a lower number of3s. This is part of Pops coaching.

    2nd paragraph will get more respect as he goes on.

    3rd. He is easier then DDR. DDr does not shoot hardly any 3s and shoots at a lower percentage.
    I realize that, I'm just pointing out why comparing %'s without context is foolish.

    Not until the % more or less holds over a longer sample size and the volume significantly increases.

    Nah. DeRozan is a low end primary scorer/play maker, who needs to be surrounded by 3 and D players.

  20. #170
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    I realize that, I'm just pointing out why comparing %'s without context is foolish.

    Not until the % more or less holds over a longer sample size and the volume significantly increases.

    Nah. DeRozan is a low end primary scorer/play maker, who needs to be surrounded by 3 and D players.
    I disagree with you on the third pint. Only thing I can see DDR at better currently is finishing in the piant. I know some would say running the offense but I think you could argue DJM is better then DDR at this already. Defense is easily DJM as well as 3s.

  21. #171
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    White > Dejounte

    I'm more of comfortable giving White the main starting job. Dejounte shouldn't have his ego affected that much, he is still part of the system.

    Everyone performs better when White is on the floor. The offense moves better, everyone knows their spots, rather than DJ driving in there and passing it out at a terrible time, affecting the flow of the offense.

    Sorry. DJ needs to develop a more sound basketball mind.

  22. #172
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    White > Dejounte

    I'm more of comfortable giving White the main starting job. Dejounte shouldn't have his ego affected that much, he is still part of the system.

    Everyone performs better when White is on the floor. The offense moves better, everyone knows their spots, rather than DJ driving in there and passing it out at a terrible time, affecting the flow of the offense.

    Sorry. DJ needs to develop a more sound basketball mind.
    White AND DJ.

  23. #173
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    I keep saying it move DJ to SG he is not a PG and play him and White together.

  24. #174
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    IG baller doing IG things. Is he actually going to apply this on the court or is he just talking like usual?

  25. #175
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    IG baller doing IG things. Is he actually going to apply this on the court or is he just talking like usual?
    I don’t know, guy was straight clowning fools in offseason though.


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