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  1. #251
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Not sure why people make fun of his height, tbh, extremely short people can be very smart. Look at DPG...

  2. #252
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Himself, just like every other politician.
    really? i could have sworn you just said his policies attack the middle class and millionaires. how is that to his benefit?

  3. #253
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Are you arguing 300k salary or household income. A single person on 300k should be fine but a family on 300k can certainly struggle depending on where they live. It really isn't that hard to fathom when a place like silicon valley's median home price is something like 1.5M.
    yeah, and a household earning 300k a year would still be in the 96th percentile of households and the typical rule of thumb is spending something like 28% of your income on housing. well, that would be 7k per month for a 300,000 earner, which is going to be good enough to get you a 1.5 million dollar home without stretching your budget.

    As far as frowning on people who make more money I'm not referring to you specifically but isn't that the entire basis of Bernie's campaign of attacking millionaires and billionaires (when in reality it'll also attack middle class families as well)?
    thats a bit of an oversimplification. i never picked up the sense that bernie's gripe was with the fact that some people make a lot of money (he has even talked about how much money he made from his book sales)... it's that the system we have in place (tax code, etc) serves to disproportionately benefit those people that dont really need all that much help. his gripe with "billionaahs" is that they have too much of a say in how those structures are put in place, by influencing politicians with huge contributions, and inherently, the threat of cutting funding (or funding opponents) if they dont continue to play ball. the role they play in special interest groups that largely dictate policy.

  4. #254
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    really? i could have sworn you just said his policies attack the middle class and millionaires. how is that to his benefit?
    He's made a lot of money as a politician has he not?

  5. #255
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    He's made a lot of money as a politician has he not?
    how is raising taxes on himself benefitting himself?

    i mean if your claim is he wants to be president for the primary purpose of the $400,000.00 salary that comes with it (and therefore benefitting himself) then that would disqualify just about everybody who ever ran for president

  6. #256
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    yeah, and a household earning 300k a year would still be in the 96th percentile of households and the typical rule of thumb is spending something like 28% of your income on housing. well, that would be 7k per month for a 300,000 earner, which is going to be good enough to get you a 1.5 million dollar home without stretching your budget.
    And what happens if they lose their source of income for a few months? Are they going to be that comfortable vs someone who owns a 100k-200k home making 50-60k. As I said it's all relative, a person making 1/6th the money can be in a much better financial footing. But it's ok we can agree to disagree on this since we're talking extreme situations.


    thats a bit of an oversimplification. i never picked up the sense that bernie's gripe was with the fact that some people make a lot of money (he has even talked about how much money he made from his book sales)... it's that the system we have in place (tax code, etc) serves to disproportionately benefit those people that dont really need all that much help. his gripe with "billionaahs" is that they have too much of a say in how those structures are put in place, by influencing politicians with huge contributions, and inherently, the threat of cutting funding (or funding opponents) if they dont continue to play ball. the role they play in special interest groups that largely dictate policy.
    He's proposing a wealth tax among many other things so I disagree.

    But given a fresh slate what would you consider a fair tax code?

  7. #257
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    how is raising taxes on himself benefitting himself?

    i mean if your claim is he wants to be president for the primary purpose of the $400,000.00 salary that comes with it (and therefore benefitting himself) then that would disqualify just about everybody who ever ran for president
    He is running for president not dictator, the odds of him passing his agenda, is very low. Even AOC has acknowledged M4A isn't likely. So he gets to profit from his ideas (you already pointed out his book sales), just like AOC has propelled herself by being outlandish. If he really wants to help others he could do so right now, with his own money, just like many other very wealthy people.

  8. #258
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    He is running for president not dictator, the odds of him passing his agenda, is very low. Even AOC has acknowledged M4A isn't likely. So he gets to profit from his ideas (you already pointed out his book sales), just like AOC has propelled herself by being outlandish. If he really wants to help others he could do so right now, with his own money, just like many other very wealthy people.
    donating money from his own account would pale in comparison to passing legislation that changes the entire landscape. its a weak talking point, in my honest opinion

  9. #259
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    who do his policies stand to benefit?
    His policies will ruin America just like they did Sweden as I already mentioned. So I guess China would be a big winner along with many other countries.

    The fact that he's encouraging illegals to come here for healthcare now and generally seems to have flipped on his position that 'open borders is a Koch brothers proposal" shows he's not trying to benefit Americans.

  10. #260
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    And what happens if they lose their source of income for a few months? Are they going to be that comfortable vs someone who owns a 100k-200k home making 50-60k. As I said it's all relative, a person making 1/6th the money can be in a much better financial footing. But it's ok we can agree to disagree on this since we're talking extreme situations.
    then they're no longer 300k per year earners as we contemplated, so it completely changes the equation. anybody who loses a job while they have pending mortgage payments is facing jeopardy. its also why you dont want to stretch it so thin such that you are living paycheck to paycheck. if you aren't able to put away money into a rainy day fund because your mortgage is too high, then you bought too much home. dave ramsey 101.

    if you choose to live in an exorbitantly expensive area, then you have to adjust accordingly. maybe that person should have only gotten a 1.3 million dollar home instead of 1.5. they'd still be able to live comfortably even if they have slightly smaller bedrooms and maybe one less walk-in closet

    He's proposing a wealth tax among many other things so I disagree.

    But given a fresh slate what would you consider a fair tax code?
    i disagree that taxation on income/wealth amounts to an attack on income/wealth.

    i think we need far more tax brackets. right now, the highest bracket for people filing jointly is 612k and up. i think its absurd to tax a household earning 700k at the same rate that you would tax a household earning 70 mil per year.

    i think a wealth tax on extreme wealth is a good idea. policy generally incentivizes what is considered "good behavior." its why you get certain tax benefits when you get married, and its why charitable donations can be written off. we recognize that marriage provides stability, and that giving to charity is good, so the government treats it as such in the tax code. similarly we shouldnt be incentivizing people to just sit on massive hordes of money (warren's proposal is for people who have 50 mil or more of wealth). better to have that money circulated and stimulate the economy. and taking 2% of your wealth that exceeds 50 mil is going to have zero impact on your standard of living, so in the scheme of things, its no skin off your back tbh

    people should absolutely be allowed to and incentivized to save money (see my earlier point above) but when you reach those 10s of millions, it no longer serves that purpose.
    Last edited by spurraider21; 02-20-2020 at 11:14 PM.

  11. #261
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    His policies will ruin America just like they did Sweden as I already mentioned. So I guess China would be a big winner along with many other countries.

    The fact that he's encouraging illegals to come here for healthcare now and generally seems to have flipped on his position that 'open borders is a Koch brothers proposal" shows he's not trying to benefit Americans.
    so you think that the beneficiary of guaranteeing health care to everybody in the US is china

  12. #262
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    At least he didnít endorse Bernie tbh.

    I do follow politics and picnroll is right on. Bernie has zero chance of winning the general election electorally.

    Woke leftists have purity tested all the rational candidates out of the race, so ironically theyíve opened the door for Bloomberg who out of everybody left, probably fares best against Trump.
    Ur political analysis is so bad I can't wait to laugh at this when the election is over

  13. #263
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    More than one person can beat Trump. How anyone, especially people of color, can have an issue with Trump and then support Bloomberg is beyond me, but I digress.
    Black ppl HATE Bloomberg...the guy has zero chance of winning

  14. #264
    Believe.
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    It sucks seeing these Timmy ads tbh

  15. #265
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    It sucks seeing these Timmy ads tbh
    Just saw his commercial now while watching the Rox-Warriors game. I always wanted Duncan to get national exposure but not this type of exposure.

  16. #266
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Black ppl HATE Bloomberg...the guy has zero chance of winning
    seeing bloomberg get his pushed on yesterday was cathartic

  17. #267
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    donating money from his own account would pale in comparison to passing legislation that changes the entire landscape. its a weak talking point, in my honest opinion
    What is stopping him from doing both? It's not a weak talking point when we see the billionaires he continually demonizes have committed to donating a large amount of their wealth. It's a valid question that is deflected because there isn't a good reason for why he hasn't done it.

  18. #268
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    It sucks seeing these Timmy ads tbh
    eh, he can have whatever political views he wants. we love him as the basketball player/teammate/franchise player. dont have to agree with him on everything

  19. #269
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    What is stopping him from doing both? It's not a weak talking point when we see the billionaires he continually demonizes have committed to donating a large amount of their wealth. It's a valid question that is deflected because there isn't a good reason for why he hasn't done it.
    nothing is stopping him. could he give more? yeah, sure. i dont think its particularly relevant when it comes to his policy.

    his biggest sticking point is wanting to guarantee healthcare to everybody. there's no donation he could give that's going to help that situation. that change can only be made through policy

    he thinks the minimum wage should be higher (i personally disagree with a $15 minimum wage). nothing he donates would help that situation. would have to come through policy

    on climate change... yeah he flies in private jets. is that hypocritical? somewhat. but the scope of good that can be made through policy is immeasurable. if he decided to only ride bicycles everywhere from now on, its not going to get us to where we need to be. its going to have to come from a much larger scale policy

    bernie thinks that the tax code is unnecessarily kind to the wealthy. how is his decision to donate more money going to change that? it's not


    you want to say there is some hypocrisy in the way he lives now? thats fine. but if he's sincere about the policies he wants to pass (and given his decades long track record of saying the same thing, i see no reason to believe that he's been lying this whole time), then thats what i'll measure him by when deciding who to vote for

    im not going to convince you that his positions are right/wrong. you have your opinions and are en led to them. i just dont think that the particular criticism is worthy of consideration in deciding who to vote for

  20. #270
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    so you think that the beneficiary of guaranteeing health care to everybody in the US is china
    I said nothing about healthcare. You ask who his policies would benefit. I answered.

  21. #271
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I said nothing about healthcare. You ask who his policies would benefit. I answered.
    healthcare is his seminal policy issue

  22. #272
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Not sure why people make fun of his height, tbh, extremely short people can be very smart. Look at DPG...
    Truth + Facts

  23. #273
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Black ppl HATE Bloomberg...the guy has zero chance of winning
    Bruh Tim is black!

  24. #274
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    then they're no longer 300k per year earners as we contemplated, so it completely changes the equation. anybody who loses a job while they have pending mortgage payments is facing jeopardy. its also why you dont want to stretch it so thin such that you are living paycheck to paycheck. if you aren't able to put away money into a rainy day fund because your mortgage is too high, then you bought too much home. dave ramsey 101.

    if you choose to live in an exorbitantly expensive area, then you have to adjust accordingly. maybe that person should have only gotten a 1.3 million dollar home instead of 1.5. they'd still be able to live comfortably even if they have slightly smaller bedrooms and maybe one less walk-in closet
    Being comfortable takes into factors like losing your job for a short period (that income isn't guaranteed). Keep in mind the example I'm referring to is something like 2 computer engineers (both making 150k each) with children. They have to live in that exorbitantly expensive area for their job, it isn't like they just really wanted to have a beach front home. Like I said though this is an extreme situation so we can just agree to disagree.



    i disagree that taxation on income/wealth amounts to an attack on income/wealth.

    i think we need far more tax brackets. right now, the highest bracket for people filing jointly is 612k and up. i think its absurd to tax a household earning 700k at the same rate that you would tax a household earning 70 mil per year.

    i think a wealth tax on extreme wealth is a good idea. policy generally incentivizes what is considered "good behavior." its why you get certain tax benefits when you get married, and its why charitable donations can be written off. we recognize that marriage provides stability, and that giving to charity is good, so the government treats it as such in the tax code. similarly we shouldnt be incentivizing people to just sit on massive hordes of money (warren's proposal is for people who have 50 mil or more of wealth). better to have that money circulated and stimulate the economy. and taking 2% of your wealth that exceeds 50 mil is going to have zero impact on your standard of living, so in the scheme of things, its no skin off your back tbh

    people should absolutely be allowed to and incentivized to save money (see my earlier point above) but when you reach those 10s of millions, it no longer serves that purpose.
    Policy also tends to punish what people consider "bad behavior" like a tabacco tax/sugar tax etc. So how is a wealth tax not an attack/punishment towards wealth? And I'm not sure what you think wealthy people do with their money but they aren't just stuffing it into a safe, if they have any brains (which I'd assume an extremely wealthy person would) then they'd be reinvesting that money into the economy to make more money.

  25. #275
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Ok, that makes total sense. And I was off on the 10k figure. I redid the math and got 6k, which is in the range of your $5400 so that all adds up. Thanks.

    This is more of where I have issues. Frankly, I don't give a about healthcare - which is largely a function of me being a healthy dude in his 30s. I think this is more a philosophic matter than anything else, but I'd rather that 5-10k increase go to infrastructure or subsidizing small business or something else. I just don't see a societal payoff in subsidizing other people's health.
    Well the good news is you donít have to make that decision; your actual dollars donít change in this scenario really. And you get to help others! Win-win.

    But we just disagree - sure you may be healthy and most people vote for themselves vs others. That is totally rational behavior and doesnít make you a bad person or anything. But a lot of us are starting to put this planet and others on equal footing as ourselves; especially when it means no real change in our quality of life.

    But to not see how there is a societal payoff for others health? Like I said, you know how many Americanís are literally trapped at jobs because they canít afford health insurance?

    Now imagine if that was not the case. Imagine all the people that could start business, make big changes, pump up the economy because they can work more vs being sick/injured all the time. Because they can leave jobs they hate to purse start ups and other careers without fear of dying or going into crippling debt is something health wise happens. There are real tangible benefits here.
    Last edited by DPG21920; 02-20-2020 at 11:41 PM.

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