Bernie

[phxspurfan]

Fair. But what about the healthy 20 or 30 something who doesn't pay that much in healthcare costs and has to pony up thousands more under Bernie's plan. What's the appeal to them?

Whats in it for them


same thing everyone says when they have to pay taxes for schools and roads. We live in a society of nice things that cost money to construct and maintain. Nothing is free. Not having to watch people starve on street corners while you complain about the homeless problem/watch your parents die from neglectful doctors and not afford their medications is something everyone should address, as everyone will benefit at some time or another. But no, yolo it up.

[boutons_deux]

Fair. But what about the healthy 20 or 30 something who doesn't pay that much in healthcare costs and has to pony up thousands more under Bernie's plan. What's the appeal to them?

what about the drivers who are MANDATED by law to have insurance, but never have an accident?

And what about the increasing number of 30 and younger people with diabetes, CVD, NAFLD, and "old people" diseases?

are you trolling or ING stupid?

[phxspurfan]

The real truth though is that someone like you, a healthy guy in his 30s who makes good money, is always going to be subsidizing other people one way or the other.

This. I am this guy, and am happy to subsidize society, and give on top of that. I'm in my prime, others aren't. If you want to address this Texas style:

2 Corinthians 9:6-8
Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.

[SnakeBoy]

That is the part that most conservative hand-wavers tend to gloss over.

The part you Bernie bros are glossing over is that none of the successful universal healthcare models are remotely similar to Bernie's plan. He is proposing we copy a failed approach that to my knowledge is only still being used in Cuba.

[spurraider21]

The part you Bernie bros are glossing over is that none of the successful universal healthcare models are remotely similar to Bernie's plan. He is proposing we copy a failed approach that to my knowledge is only still being used in Cuba.

i think there are a lot of factors to the failed state of cuba besides their healthcare plan.

[spurraider21]

if you are getting healthcare through an employer-sponsored program, your pay stub will already have lines addressing your tax withholdings, and a separate line for your health plan deduction.

saying "but bernie's plan is going to increase the tax number" without considering that you are going to eliminate the health insurance deduction is incredibly misleading

[Will Hunting]

The part you Bernie bros are glossing over is that none of the successful universal healthcare models are remotely similar to Bernie's plan. He is proposing we copy a failed approach that to my knowledge is only still being used in Cuba.

It’s the part I gloss over because it’s the part that’s never going to get done. There’s never going to be a ban on private insurance in this country.

[SnakeBoy]

i think there are a lot of factors to the failed state of cuba besides their healthcare plan.

Glossing over

Honestly don't know how you go from wanting a universal healthcare system to wanting only what the govt says you can have.

[RandomGuy]

The part you Bernie bros are glossing over is that none of the successful universal healthcare models are remotely similar to Bernie's plan. He is proposing we copy a failed approach that to my knowledge is only still being used in Cuba.

Not a Bernie bro, and not glossing over anything.

Honestly, anything the Democrats are proposing are worlds better than the non-existent ideas that Trump is putting out there, and worlds better than the broken, hideously inefficient system we have now.

Any Democratic proposal that vastly expands government coverage will cut wait times, reduce overall costs, make people healthier than they are now, and reduce bankruptcies.

What you won't admit is our current system is ing broken, and the free market fairy ain't gonna magically fix it, because the "free market" broke it in the first place.

[spurraider21]

going by the "average healthcare cost" feature, and assuming married filing jointly, the rough break-even point here is an income of $150k. a household income of that amount would place you roughly in the 85th percentile in the US

[SnakeBoy]

It’s the part I gloss over because it’s the part that’s never going to get done. There’s never going to be a ban on private insurance in this country.

So what is the hope if he's POTUS? That you get a public option maybe?

[RandomGuy]

Glossing over

Honestly don't know how you go from wanting a universal healthcare system to wanting only what the govt says you can have.

Ask an insurer for some procedure without pre-authorization, and tell me how theirbureaucrats' refusal to pay is any different in effect.

[vy65]

And its the same as before, because health insurance. Plus, none of this is taking into account that SALT deduction limit is killing the middle class anyway. That would likely be reversed if any dem was president, because it was just a tax that targeted blue states. Removing that alone makes this easily at least a wash for me, personally.

Solid point. Would make Uncle Free seem way more palatable if this were included, but I haven't heard any such discussion.

[vy65]

The real truth though is that someone like you, a healthy guy in his 30s who makes good money, is always going to be subsidizing other people one way or the other. Right now your tax dollars are subsidizing the defense industry with spending we don’t need.

Sad truth. But with an R, I'm at least getting promised tax cuts. Granted, I ended up paying more in taxes under Dear Leader. However, I will pay approximately 4x more if Uncle Free is elected.

I just find it funny that everyone is quick to point at my demographic and say "fair share" or dumb like whatever the Boots said. I don't complain about it too much because I don't have a choice. My point is just that my demographic gets ed when it comes to tax reform and no one bats an eye. Which is not right.

[spurraider21]

Glossing over

Honestly don't know how you go from wanting a universal healthcare system to wanting only what the govt says you can have.

sweden has all but eliminated private care. it covers about 2% of their people, is heavily regulated locally, and typically only offers supplemental coverage

[SnakeBoy]

What you won't admit is our current system is ing broken, and the free market fairy ain't gonna magically fix it, because the "free market" broke it in the first place.

I've said for over a decade on here that I'm not opposed to universal coverage. Just need to see a realistic plan for this country. No democrat has yet to offer one. Well I guess Obama offered a first step in the public option but got shot down immediately by his own party.

I've never said the GOP has the answers. Outside of Lindsey Graham they have no idea's at all.

[spurraider21]

Solid point. Would make Uncle Free seem way more palatable if this were included, but I haven't heard any such discussion.

arent salt deductions basically the states getting subsidized by uncle sam?

[vy65]

arent salt deductions basically the states getting subsidized by uncle sam?

Sure, but so what?

[phxspurfan]

Solid point. Would make Uncle Free seem way more palatable if this were included, but I haven't heard any such discussion.

Thats because they love them some taxes :shrug: even if they are ill-gotten, they will find a way to spend the revenue.

[RandomGuy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z2XRg3dy9k&t=891s

Pros/cons as weighed by Jon Oliver

[phxspurfan]

Solid point. Would make Uncle Free seem way more palatable if this were included, but I haven't heard any such discussion.

Not saying Uncle Free is great by any means, would rather be in better times where we didn't need such drastic measures. But anything is better than Kids in Cages. The current dude is literally a mix of Hitler and John Gotti. It doesn't end well for the country when a president can cir vent the checks and balances. Then we just turn into another hole Country.

[DarrinS]

Not saying Uncle Free is great by any means, would rather be in better times where we didn't need such drastic measures. But anything is better than Kids in Cages. The current dude is literally a mix of Hitler and John Gotti. It doesn't end well for the country when a president can cir vent the checks and balances. Then we just turn into another hole Country.

^posted from Auschwitz

[Winehole23]

^posted by Professor Pangloss, from the best of all possible worlds

[Will Hunting]

So what is the hope if he's POTUS? That you get a public option maybe?

Yep a public option and price controls that make the public option attractive. I think someone like Buttplug might get a public option but it’d suck and would basically just be Medicaid level healthcare that doesn’t require an income test.

Warren would be my choice but I think the damage is done with her and her campaign is over.

[Will Hunting]

Sad truth. But with an R, I'm at least getting promised tax cuts. Granted, I ended up paying more in taxes under Dear Leader. However, I will pay approximately 4x more if Uncle Free is elected.

I just find it funny that everyone is quick to point at my demographic and say "fair share" or dumb like whatever the Boots said. I don't complain about it too much because I don't have a choice. My point is just that my demographic gets ed when it comes to tax reform and no one bats an eye. Which is not right.

I have a hard time believing your tax liability goes up by literally 4x under Bernie. If that were true we’d be hearing other candidates talking about it (not you specifically but your (and my) demographic).