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  1. #301
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Heck, even if the guy doesn't pan out as a WR, you can always turn him into a defensive back or, worst case scenario, a ST specialist. You can't ever go wrong drafting speed.

    "Skill positions" in the NFL are so ing overrated is not even funny. Catching a football or running a route isn't really all that difficult. The physical atributes of the players are a lot more important than any "technique" they can be taught.
    disagree quite a bit with this.

    granted, being a better athlete comes with inherent advantages. but theres a LOT of nuance in those positions. athleticism doesnt explain why trent richardson was a monumental bust while arian foster was one of the great backs until his health degraded despite being a pedestrian athlete for the position.

    granted, running backs ARE generally more replaceable than any other position (and haven't shown a lot of impact in wins and losses in recent years), but thats not because its a simple position where its just a matter of finding a great athlete. it's because running backs are asked to do a lot less today as the league (and rules) have shifted towards prioritizing the passing game.

    i disagree that "skill positions" dont matter. i think the importance of running back is still overstated in the old guard, but wide receivers are as important as ever.

  2. #302
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    straight line running speed is far from the most important trait though... short area quickness/change of direction. body control (both in the air and on the ground to make catches in traffic). catching can only be taught so much. some guys just have more natural hands.

    and theres a huge mental component to being a great wide receiver. its not just a matter of running the route in the playbook. you have the read the defender's body language and leverage, figure out what the coverage is, and make subtle rout adjustments accordingly

    while you do have your freak athletes like randy moss and calvin johnson that tore it up, you also have more pedestrian athletes like jerry rice, isaac bruce, deandre hopkins, larry fitzgerald who are greats despite not being particularly fast. anquan boldin was legendarily slow but was still a monster receiver, and not just the older, slot/possession receiver he was with baltimore.

    if you look at the list of wide receivers with the fastest 40 yard dash times, it doesnt necessarily correlate with greatness

    the great misunderstanding of the WR position is that you can just stick a phenomenal athlete there and they'll eventual get good. absolutely not the case.
    Yeah, quickness is just as important as straight line speed. The thing is, usally, the faster straight line runners are also the quicker and more agile people, tbh.

  3. #303
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Yeah, quickness is just as important as straight line speed. The thing is, usally, the faster straight line runners are also the quicker and more agile people, tbh.
    as a general trent among the population, sure. in NFL circles, not really. if you look at the guys with the top 3 cone drill times or 20 yard shuttle times, its usually not the same as the guys who finished at the top of the 40

    even then, straight line speed + short area quickness, while inherently important attributes, are far from great indicators of WR success. there's a lot more nuance in route running, footwork, get-off, separation than you're willing to let on

  4. #304
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Sure, that's important too. Not as important as speed though.
    All the great little speedsters were late draft picks. Nearly every GOAT WR was early pick.....and had size.

    Send Tyreek Hill to the Broncos and he's another Devin Hester

  5. #305
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    All the great little speedsters were late draft picks. Nearly every GOAT WR was early pick.....and had size.

    Send Tyreek Hill to the Broncos and he's another Devin Hester
    Sure. Send Julio Jones to the Broncos and he becomes irrelevant too. Heck, send Jerry Rice to a mediocre team, with a ty QB, instead of the 90's 49ers and he probably goes from "the GOAT" to not even making the HoF.

  6. #306
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    All the great little speedsters were late draft picks. Nearly every GOAT WR was early pick.....and had size.

    Send Tyreek Hill to the Broncos and he's another Devin Hester
    Desean Jackson (OG Tyreek Hill) was drafted in the 2nd round


    John Ross was supposed to be that guy.... but... he was drafted by arguably the worst franchise in the NFL.

  7. #307
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Desean Jackson (OG Tyreek Hill) was drafted in the 2nd round


    John Ross was supposed to be that guy.... but... he was drafted by arguably the worst franchise in the NFL.
    Ted Ginn
    Corey Coleman

    list goes on

    Troy Williamson was a burner and he had great size. Still sucked

  8. #308
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Ted Ginn
    Corey Coleman

    list goes on

    Troy Williamson was a burner and he had great size. Still sucked
    Ted Ginn has carved out a more than decent and pretty long career. As for Coleman, the entire 2016 WR draft class was a bust... him, Treadwell, Doctson, etc. Terrible class.

  9. #309
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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  10. #310
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Rams gotta be rebuilding, they are ultra top heavy and they know it. They very well might be the worst team in a loaded division in 2020.

    Texans on the other hand... lmfao. This Cooks er is basically Sammy Watkins 2.0 in that he'll have a few isolated amazing games a year but miss half the season due to some injury, every year. Texans have squandered away way too much draft capital and continued to make their roster worse. Bill O'Bummer makes Jason Garrett look good very often

  11. #311
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Cooks is better than Watkins but his concussion issues are serious and he’s overpaid

  12. #312
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Cooks is better than Watkins but his concussion issues are serious and hes overpaid
    Cooks is fast but a mediocre route runner and he oddly struggles against man coverage, even against mediocre CBs like the ones the Packers have (2018 mid season game). He's good at beating people deep, catching balls in the flat and wiggling around people for extra yardage, and pulls off the occasional amazing catch over the middle in double coverage against 2 safeties that are bigger than him. But he is oddly inconsistent and fell out of favor with both Brees and Brady pretty fast.

    Exactly right about being overpaid. He's probably a 10m/year receiver in today's salary cap market, but no more than that.

  13. #313
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I think he’s easily worth 12-15 if healthy but not the 20 he’s getting

  14. #314
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    i find myself going a bit back and forth between lamb and jeudy. i think jeudy just has a higher floor, and is more likely to produce day 1. its why i've leaned that way

    then again GM's dont make decisions based solely on who they think will be a safer rookie, and lamb definitely has the upside to become that #1, go-to receiver who you can count on for a tough catch through contact when chips are down
    Personally, I would go with Lamb but I am biased having seen him run wild through UT's secondary. He also breaks a lot of tackles.

  15. #315
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Personally, I would go with Lamb but I am biased having seen him run wild through UT's secondary. He also breaks a lot of tackles.
    I only saw a handful of UT games last season but it seemed like that secondary was always in trouble if there were multiple decent WR.

  16. #316
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Personally, I would go with Lamb but I am biased having seen him run wild through UT's secondary. He also breaks a lot of tackles.
    the YAC is really intriguing. Jeudy is also a YAC guy but more with his quickness/agility and less with tackle breaking.

    they're both good fits for Gruden's offense, but the upside with Lamb's ability to go up and win contested balls might actually incentivize Carr to take more shots because he finally would have a receiver he can trust to go up and get it (aside from a tight end). Carr was more aggressive when Cooper and Crabtree were doing their thing, but neither guy was comparable to Lamb. I guess Crabtree a little but, but nowhere near as explosive

    i still think that if he's there, the Raiders go grab Jalen Hurts in the 3rd round

  17. #317
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Cooks is fast but a mediocre route runner and he oddly struggles against man coverage, even against mediocre CBs like the ones the Packers have (2018 mid season game). He's good at beating people deep, catching balls in the flat and wiggling around people for extra yardage, and pulls off the occasional amazing catch over the middle in double coverage against 2 safeties that are bigger than him. But he is oddly inconsistent and fell out of favor with both Brees and Brady pretty fast.

    Exactly right about being overpaid. He's probably a 10m/year receiver in today's salary cap market, but no more than that.
    Cooks is recognized as a great route runner. And he's better than Watkins.

  18. #318
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Cooks is recognized as a great route runner. And he's better than Watkins.
    then how come he can't beat mediocre corners like Jaire Alexander, Kevin King and JC Jackson on crossing routes against man coverage? I don't get it.

    Say what you want about Watkins, but he stepped up in the clutch and had a monster game with all the marbles on the line... roughly 100 yards against one of the top 10 corners in NFL history...

    ...can't say that about Cooks, who is 0-2 in Super Bowls, one he got KO'd out by Malcolm "Muhammad Ali" Jenkins, the other he just sucked in. Let Gilmore take his cookie on the biggest play of the game instead of going up for it like a man. Showed zero heart. I'd pass on that guy all day.

  19. #319
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    then how come he can't beat mediocre corners like Jaire Alexander, Kevin King and JC Jackson on crossing routes against man coverage? I don't get it.

    Say what you want about Watkins, but he stepped up in the clutch and had a monster game with all the marbles on the line... roughly 100 yards against one of the top 10 corners in NFL history...

    ...can't say that about Cooks, who is 0-2 in Super Bowls, one he got KO'd out by Malcolm "Muhammad Ali" Jenkins, the other he just sucked in. Let Gilmore take his cookie on the biggest play of the game instead of going up for it like a man. Showed zero heart. I'd pass on that guy all day.
    What the are you talking about??? Alexander, King, and Jackson???? Rams didn't even play the Packers or Pats this last season.
    As for 2018, Cooks went 8 for 120 against the Pats.

  20. #320
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    What the are you talking about??? Alexander, King, and Jackson???? Rams didn't even play the Packers or Pats this last season.
    As for 2018, Cooks went 8 for 120 against the Pats.
    brah ur talking the andrew, who always has the most simplistic analysis possible

    "oh, 2 black fast receivers. they're probably the same thing"

  21. #321
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    but why is houston trading a second round pick for cooks and his massive contract when:

    a) they traded hopkins for a second round pick
    b) this draft is LOADED at WR and they should have some great options in the 2nd round

  22. #322
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    the rams are trying to do a quasi rebuild with this year being the "dead" year (they're eating huge cap hits for both Gurley and Cooks, and lost other free agents), which is the right thing to do NOW, but emblematic of all the poor decisions they had made to this point putting them in this position

    oh, and they have no first round pick next year and jalen ramsey doesnt have a contract yet

  23. #323
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    brah ur talking the andrew, who always has the most simplistic analysis possible

    "oh, 2 black fast receivers. they're probably the same thing"
    definitely not... when guys like tyreek hill and desean jackson are game changers. Even John Brown made the Bills offense halfway decent despite a terrible QB and OL. Then you have Cooks, Watkins, John Ross, guys who are fast but not shifty/good enough route runners to be a true Z receiver, not slippery and shifty enough to be a Y / slot receiver, and of course none of those guys are X receivers.

  24. #324
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    the rams are trying to do a quasi rebuild with this year being the "dead" year (they're eating huge cap hits for both Gurley and Cooks, and lost other free agents), which is the right thing to do NOW, but emblematic of all the poor decisions they had made to this point putting them in this position

    oh, and they have no first round pick next year and jalen ramsey doesnt have a contract yet
    Absolutely. Especially since the 49ers and Seahawks are both top NFC/NFL contenders and Arizona should be at least an 8 or 9 win team with Murray/Hopkins if they can at least somewhat fix their dreadful O-Line this offseason and draft. The Rams are the 4th best team in a stacked division so now is the type to have a lean year or two and build for the future.

  25. #325
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    brah ur talking the andrew, who always has the most simplistic analysis possible

    "oh, 2 black fast receivers. they're probably the same thing"
    I think it must be some kind of shtick because no one can be that consistently stupid. I probably only fact check about 1/30 of his posts and he's always wrong. Most of the time, I'm like..."that doesn't sound right". And when I look at the data, it never is. I should probably quit even responding. But he's just so gd'md stupid.

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