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  1. #2101
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    The reasons I would consider Lonnie for #7 are:

    1. To move up and get Okongwu. I don't think he slides past Washington, if he even makes it past Charlotte. Then I would want the Spurs to take Williams/Killian/Vassell/Halliburton etc at 11

    2. Where does Lonnie fit if the Spurs keep White? They'll have White and Murray at the starting guards, and Keldon's play style translates well to a SF, or smallball 4 split with DeRozan who could still get extended.

    I don't know if he works great off the bench when Pop out of the bubble forces time for Mills or in the worst case scenario, FORBES

    Converting Walker into a defensive rim runner like Okongwu isn't the worst idea to me, you still have #11 to get wing or combo guard help.

    And I think money matters as far as control years go. I remember the Spurs trading Hill and that trade was just as much about not being able to afford to pay Hill as it was getting Kawhi, that's how so many were able to call Hill being traded.

    I like Lonnie, but I don't think Pop is all in and the longer you go with him just flashing here and there the lower his trade value gets.
    You see, the problem I have with this suggestion of trading Lonnie to keep White, which you haven't been the only poster to put forward, is that it's a false dichotomy of having to choose between both players, when the Spurs aren't being forced into that decision. Lonnie fits perfectly fine as a SG-SF off the bench for the time being, and eventually fighting for minutes at SG with Dejounte (who I actually think is the worst fit of the bunch, since he doesn't excel at any one thing that isn't replaceable, besides rebounds, which a proper PF should cover). He can also get SF minutes when Keldon's off the court. I'd even go as far as saying that White, who's 26, is a worse fit due to timeline with the rest of the players than Lonnie would be, and he's already close to his ceiling. Selling high on him after his bubble performance, or next season, wouldn't be a bad move, tbh.

    In the meantime, Lonnie is only 21. He's improved this season even if he isn't where we want him to be. He probably doesn't have that much value right now to other teams, and selling low on him before seeing what he can accomplish is foolish, especially for a rebuilding team like the Spurs who needs all the young players it can get. If the Spurs so desperately want a second or higher pick, they have plenty of vets on the roster who won't be on the team long-term and who are already at their peak value or actively declining from it, like Patty or Rudy. We'll see what happens... But I really don't see the Spurs trading Lonnie away as of right now.

  2. #2102
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    Okay, let's break this down.
    Good stuff, Russ. I want to be sold on Deni because he seems like a Spursy pick -- but I'm just not there on him.

    Actually, playmaking is a strong suit. Even the video you linked in your profile of Avdija states "Projects as a good primary or secondary playmaker."
    Deni ran pick-and-rolls in FIBA action but that's about the extent of his playmaking history. If a team drafts him thinking he'll be Doncic or even Orlando Turkoglu, they are going to be disappointed, IMO. His playmaking ceiling is more like a Tobias Harris in that he will be ultra active and make the right passes when given the opportunity.

    First, who cares if he would be an odd fit in SA? Are we at that point? Are we fine tuning? This team needs the most impactful player they can find.
    That's the same argument I've made and it's why I'm 100% okay drafting a player of any position. No player is good enough to factor in positional fit.

    That said, as a tie-breaker for prospects on the same tier, I think it's fair to factor in current fit. And considering the Spurs are already shooting challenged and two of their three most accomplished shooters could be leaving, adding another non-shooting quasi-playmaker would be sub-optimal. Adding Deni to the current group would result in a lot of clogging. The Spurs could absorb another non-shooter but that player would have to be a center to replace Poeltl, a project who doesn't need minutes right away or a player who could work with Chip to become a shooter. Deni, conversely, is ready for minutes right now and with his long history of being a 55% free throw shooter despite getting great coaching for 5+ years, it's difficult to see a situation where either he or the Spurs will flourish.

    I've said that if the Spurs think Deni is the best player on the board, they should go ahead and pick him. But after they do, then they need to tear down what they currently have so that there are at least lineups that make sense. Specifically, if you draft Deni you probably have to trade DeRozan and not re-sign Poeltl -- and probably see if there's a market for Murray. I'm not super high on Deni but he's going to be ready for minutes quickly and the Spurs will want to give him those minutes to see what it is that they have on their hands.

    Secondly, "would be best playing off a superstar" just begs the question -- who wouldn't be?
    Fair enough but my point was I think Deni would be an especially great fit next to a superstar, particularly one who is a superstar scorer and playmaker. I mean, you can make the case that he's the best fit the Timberwolves with the first overall pick. Put him between Towns and Russell and he can fill in the blanks, while his weaknesses aren't a big deal.

    If you're saying he can't create, I just disagree (see above). Avdija is a versatile, instinctive basketball player. He's not a guy you plug in to a spot. If he went to the Spurs and was the player I think he could be, the question wouldn't be how does he fit with the Spurs, it would be how do these guys fit with him.

    To take the point to a dangerous level (I admit), Larry Bird comes to mind. There was an old grizzled sports reporter in Boston who watched the Celtics being introduced pregame. He pointed out the shortcomings of each of the first four starters, how you couldn't win with them, then after Bird was finally announced, he said "Now, that's a great team." The Spurs need a guy like that, or a guy who might be like that.


    Again, if the Spurs see him as that guy (I don't, for the record, but it's possible I'm wrong), pick him. And then start reshaping your roster.

    That's the same old trope that's trotted out against every foreign player until someone from his country "makes it." The moves Avdija makes, the passes he makes, have nothing to do with the level of compe ion.
    Eh, that's not really fair. The Israeli league (and Israel itself) has had players make it. My issue with the Israeli league has nothing to do with the country. The issue is that it's a super unbalanced league. Maccabi, Deni's team, has won something like 55 of the 65 league les. Last I looked, Maccabi and the Jerusalem team pay more in salary than the rest of the league combined. Maccabi has far and away the most talent on the league. They'd win games in the NBA. If you compare that team to all the other teams in the league outside of the Jerusalem team, it's a joke. On top of the salary difference, the Israeli league has some quirky rules like paying bonuses to teams based on how many minutes their Israeli players play, which results in the teams that didn't have a chance to begin with signing the cheapest possible Israeli players and then giving them big minutes to chase those bonuses.

    The Deni MVP award that people point to was the MVP of that Israeli league. His team was so much better that they could play him big minutes and force feed him the ball and still easily win. Even with the force feeding, he still didn't really deserve the MVP but they gave it to him anyway -- probably to make him look better for the draft and because he's the league's most popular player. Understandable decision, tbh, but his performance in that league in general and the MVP specifically needs to taken with a few grains of salt.

    In his interviews, he seems serious and studious about the game. He wants to be good.
    Yeah, I love the edge he plays with and that will help him in his transition to the NBA. He's not a player who is going to be too bashful to assert himself -- it'll be closer to the opposite. But, again, that's another reason why picking Deni would have to be step one of a complete rebuild. You can't pick him and then stash him in the G League or bury him at the end of the bench. He's going to need minutes ASAP.

    To sum up, when I watch him, he passes the eye test. I'm still all in for Okongwu, but Avdija might be second.

    But the main, bottom-line point is this -- thanks timvp for all you do for Spurs basketball fans.


    I think we're on the same page on Okongwu. At 11, you pick him and you don't have to worry about the center position for another decade at the earliest.

    BTW, we need to fix your sig. That GIF is too awesome to be missing

  3. #2103
    I want some NASTY! SpurPadre's Avatar
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    I actually think he’ll be a good player for some team but I read somewhere that he opted out of this years draft
    This article from yesterday still talks about him as if he were still in the draft: https://netswire.usatoday.com/2020/0...andro-bolmaro/

  4. #2104
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    Bolmaro still in the draft , but he made it known that he will spend at least 1 year in Europe. Perfect target for teams with multiple first rounders.

  5. #2105
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    The more I watch of Bolmaro, the more I like him. He can't jump to save his life but the rest of his game is pretty impressive. You can't take him at 11 I don't think but at any point after 16 or so he's not a terrible pick, IMO. By the last few picks of the first round, he turns into a no-brainer.

  6. #2106
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    On Okongwu:

    Are we really worrying about the center position for the next decade as it stands (if we re-sign Poetl)? Poetl's not great, but he's not bad either. I don't think Okongwu will bring much more than Poetl offensively other than be a more mobile rim runner. That's my concern over Okongwu.

  7. #2107
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    I'm fan of Bolmaro as well. If he's staying over another year I'd be comfortable choosing him anywhere from the mid 20's down.

  8. #2108
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    On Okongwu:

    Are we really worrying about the center position for the next decade as it stands (if we re-sign Poetl)? Poetl's not great, but he's not bad either. I don't think Okongwu will bring much more than Poetl offensively other than be a more mobile rim runner. That's my concern over Okongwu.
    I see Poeltl as a really good backup or a decent-ish starter. Okongwu pretty quickly with be a decent-ish starter with the upside of being a really good starter. That's a notable enough shift to warrant drafting him at 11, IMO.

  9. #2109
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    "We’d like to add a veteran or two in free agency, but I don’t even know if that’s possible," Kerr told The Athletic's Anthony Slater when discussing the recent additions of Shaun Livingston and Leandro Barbosa to the front office. "We’ll see how everything shakes out. So it’s almost, you know, if we can’t do that, if we can’t add a Zaza Pachulia or David West in free agency, we’ve gotta be able to do that on the staff. So I think that’s a big part of why Shaun and LB are here, to provide some of that mentoring."

    https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/wa...ns-free-agency

    Sounds like theyre keeping the pick.

  10. #2110
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    Please don't take Halliburton!

  11. #2111
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    Good stuff, Russ. I want to be sold on Deni because he seems like a Spursy pick -- but I'm just not there on him.

    Deni ran pick-and-rolls in FIBA action but that's about the extent of his playmaking history. If a team drafts him thinking he'll be Doncic or even Orlando Turkoglu, they are going to be disappointed, IMO. His playmaking ceiling is more like a Tobias Harris in that he will be ultra active and make the right passes when given the opportunity.

    That's the same argument I've made and it's why I'm 100% okay drafting a player of any position. No player is good enough to factor in positional fit.

    That said, as a tie-breaker for prospects on the same tier, I think it's fair to factor in current fit. And considering the Spurs are already shooting challenged and two of their three most accomplished shooters could be leaving, adding another non-shooting quasi-playmaker would be sub-optimal. Adding Deni to the current group would result in a lot of clogging. The Spurs could absorb another non-shooter but that player would have to be a center to replace Poeltl, a project who doesn't need minutes right away or a player who could work with Chip to become a shooter. Deni, conversely, is ready for minutes right now and with his long history of being a 55% free throw shooter despite getting great coaching for 5+ years, it's difficult to see a situation where either he or the Spurs will flourish.

    I've said that if the Spurs think Deni is the best player on the board, they should go ahead and pick him. But after they do, then they need to tear down what they currently have so that there are at least lineups that make sense. Specifically, if you draft Deni you probably have to trade DeRozan and not re-sign Poeltl -- and probably see if there's a market for Murray. I'm not super high on Deni but he's going to be ready for minutes quickly and the Spurs will want to give him those minutes to see what it is that they have on their hands.

    Fair enough but my point was I think Deni would be an especially great fit next to a superstar, particularly one who is a superstar scorer and playmaker. I mean, you can make the case that he's the best fit the Timberwolves with the first overall pick. Put him between Towns and Russell and he can fill in the blanks, while his weaknesses aren't a big deal.





    Again, if the Spurs see him as that guy (I don't, for the record, but it's possible I'm wrong), pick him. And then start reshaping your roster.



    Eh, that's not really fair. The Israeli league (and Israel itself) has had players make it. My issue with the Israeli league has nothing to do with the country. The issue is that it's a super unbalanced league. Maccabi, Deni's team, has won something like 55 of the 65 league les. Last I looked, Maccabi and the Jerusalem team pay more in salary than the rest of the league combined. Maccabi has far and away the most talent on the league. They'd win games in the NBA. If you compare that team to all the other teams in the league outside of the Jerusalem team, it's a joke. On top of the salary difference, the Israeli league has some quirky rules like paying bonuses to teams based on how many minutes their Israeli players play, which results in the teams that didn't have a chance to begin with signing the cheapest possible Israeli players and then giving them big minutes to chase those bonuses.

    The Deni MVP award that people point to was the MVP of that Israeli league. His team was so much better that they could play him big minutes and force feed him the ball and still easily win. Even with the force feeding, he still didn't really deserve the MVP but they gave it to him anyway -- probably to make him look better for the draft and because he's the league's most popular player. Understandable decision, tbh, but his performance in that league in general and the MVP specifically needs to taken with a few grains of salt.

    Yeah, I love the edge he plays with and that will help him in his transition to the NBA. He's not a player who is going to be too bashful to assert himself -- it'll be closer to the opposite. But, again, that's another reason why picking Deni would have to be step one of a complete rebuild. You can't pick him and then stash him in the G League or bury him at the end of the bench. He's going to need minutes ASAP.



    I think we're on the same page on Okongwu. At 11, you pick him and you don't have to worry about the center position for another decade at the earliest.

    BTW, we need to fix your sig. That GIF is too awesome to be missing
    Great stuff, gents.

  12. #2112
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    The more I watch of Bolmaro, the more I like him. He can't jump to save his life but the rest of his game is pretty impressive. You can't take him at 11 I don't think but at any point after 16 or so he's not a terrible pick, IMO. By the last few picks of the first round, he turns into a no-brainer.
    I'm more concerned about his bad shooting, rather than his jumping. If he had a jumper, I figure he'd be looking at a lottery spot...

  13. #2113
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    when do teams get to workout players b4 the draft?

  14. #2114
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    I see Poeltl as a really good backup or a decent-ish starter. Okongwu pretty quickly with be a decent-ish starter with the upside of being a really good starter. That's a notable enough shift to warrant drafting him at 11, IMO.
    Define what a really good starter looks like from Okongwu. Like would he be a defensive anchor? What would his production look like to you? Bam Adebayo type production? I was going to throw Anthony Davis, but I'm not sure he would ever have the shooting touch.

  15. #2115
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    I don't like Bam for Okongwu comparison , Bam is a freak athletically and IQ wise. Do it all , stat stuffing centers like cody and theis seems like the more realistic.
    Last edited by rankingtear; 09-18-2020 at 01:36 AM.

  16. #2116
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    All this waiting is driving me crazy, hopefully stuff starts happening soon

  17. #2117
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    All this waiting is driving me crazy, hopefully stuff starts happening soon
    Hopefully this means we should start getting measurements soon. It'd be cool if the videos are made public but that's probably asking too much...



  18. #2118
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Again, if the Spurs see him as that guy (I don't, for the record, but it's possible I'm wrong), pick him. And then start reshaping your roster.

    But, again, that's another reason why picking Deni would have to be step one of a complete rebuild.

    I think we're on the same page on Okongwu. At 11, you pick him and you don't have to worry about the center position for another decade at the earliest.

    People are mostly looking at this draft (for the Spurs) in a vacuum. Are the Spurs going to commit at least one more season to rebuilding for the long-haul, or are they looking for the quickest path back to a 50-win season? It makes all the difference in the world.

    I don't like the idea of doing anything, picking anybody, with regards to how they fit with LMA. He's almost certain not to be here, and even if he is you're shaping a team around a guy on the downward slope. Every bit as much as with Avdija, if Okongwu is really a decade-worth at the C position, you might as well call that part of a complete rebuild and start shaping your roster. Personally, I don't think Avdija is "the guy". I think he's going to be a lot like Nicolas Batum. A very good player who does a lot of things that a team needs. But he's not going to be a go-to guy. I don't mind that at all with the 11 pick. It seems like a lot of Spurs fans think that 11 is some kind of a magically high pick. It's a good pick, and the expected outcome ought to be a good player. From all the recent jabber, there might be 2-3 players of that caliber dropping into the Spurs' reach.

    I still like Saddiq Bey because he stands to be one of those solid, journeyman-class players who you need to support the go-to guy when you find him. For most of the college season, I really liked Jordan Nwora. His draft stock fell on one or two bad games, but I've been looking at all the reasons I liked him and I still like him. Find a way to trade down (to Philly, for instance) for two lower first round picks and come up with Bey and Nwora? The Spurs 3P shooting woes go away. And even though neither of those guys are defensive specialists, the team's defense still gets better. If the Spurs are trying to get back to 45-50 wins, that would go a long way.

  19. #2119
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    ^11th pick has netted some great players:

    Klay Thompson
    Bonzi Wells
    Allan Houston
    Myles Turner
    Domantas Sabonis
    Shai Alexander
    Robert Horry
    Reggie Miller

    I guess the only go to guy here is Klay, Reggie, and Allan, and maybe potentially Shai

  20. #2120
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    ^11th pick has netted some great players:

    Klay Thompson
    Bonzi Wells
    Allan Houston
    Myles Turner
    Domantas Sabonis
    Shai Alexander
    Robert Horry
    Reggie Miller

    I guess the only go to guy here is Klay, Reggie, and Allan, and maybe potentially Shai

    Sure. Good players fall that low and lower. But if you look at the whole draft history, it's really stacked to the first 7 picks. Klay and Bonzi were both in draft classes that were VERY deep through about the first 12 picks. Even then, those guys only fell to 11 because teams took flyers on guys like fat-ass Robert Traylor and Jimmer Fredette. Bonzi at 11 isn't nearly as amazing as Dirk and Paul Pierce at 9 and 10.

    My point was just about expected value. By the time you reach 11, snagging a solid, consistent player is a good outcome. Most of the unicorns are gone. The Spurs have been better than most at getting value from late positions, but not every class has even one Kawhi-class player. If they can grab a Nic Batum-type player, it won't be a bad outcome. It's just that lots of people believe that if the Spurs can get Kawhi with the 15th pick, they ought to be able to get something at least that good with 11.

  21. #2121
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    On Okongwu:

    Are we really worrying about the center position for the next decade as it stands (if we re-sign Poetl)? Poetl's not great, but he's not bad either. I don't think Okongwu will bring much more than Poetl offensively other than be a more mobile rim runner. That's my concern over Okongwu.
    I think he would be an upgrade on Poeltl offensively. Poeltl is not really a consistent vertical threat on the pick and roll. There was an early game this year that was a great example, where he just didn't roll hard or present himself for the pass and it resulted in more than one turnover for White and made White look bad. I remember posting about it in the game thread.

    He's been better since but he leaves a lot of points on the table. He can set the screen but I think Okongwu could be better significantly. And ... Due to his youth, maybe Okongwu can become a better shooter than Poeltl. Maybe, maybe not. But Poeltl doesn't shoot jumpers and isn't the vertical threat I think Okongwu is.

    Considering the outlook on scoring in the future, with Murray's limitations and Aldridge/DeRozan probably either on their way out or going into decline, those 3-6 points that Okongwu might be generating over Poeltl could be needed

  22. #2122
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    Explain this fit to me, tbh. I'm willing to try to change my mind on Deni-to-the-Spurs.

    But a non-shooting combo forward who isn't elite on D, not really a playmaker and who would be best playing off of a superstar is just an odd fit in San Antonio, IMO.

    I wouldn't mind the pick because Deni is a pretty good prospect in a vacuum but if you pick him, the fit is so weird you probably have to start tearing the whole thing down to accommodate.
    To put it simply: his speed with the ball is special. It's usually only little guards who are that quick, not from a big wing like Deni. That's the number 1 attribute for me that stood out.

    His shooting form doesn't have any major issues. I think he'll be a better shooter than he's been credited for.

    He's a 3 level scorer. Can post up, crafty layins, has hops, floater game looks like you're watching a guard. Just has many ways to score where I could envision him to be a go-to guy at the end of games.

    Basically, he's Poku with less concerns on how he'll fit on defense (and also the other obvious differences). He can guard his position, he's strong enough not to be a pushover.

    He also oozes "natural-born winner". The intangibles gained from his experience in winning high pressure games will prove invaluable.

    I'll go into more detail later.
    I like Deni, though I don't think he's great. His free throw shooting was better in the bubble.

    I think at his size he adds versatility to the roster, improves it, and that's good for me.

    I will add though ...

    Deni might be the only guy whose contract could pay for itself with sponsorships and the like.

    As the number one hyped star of a country, he could pull in a lot of money for whoever drafts him. That team might instantly become 'Israel's Team' and get all the benefits one might expect like Yao and China and like Tony and France.

    And he's much more hyped and beloved than Caspi was, he's the man.

    Maybe front offices don't take that into consideration, but the business side will certainly think about it.

  23. #2123
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    I think he would be an upgrade on Poeltl offensively. Poeltl is not really a consistent vertical threat on the pick and roll. There was an early game this year that was a great example, where he just didn't roll hard or present himself for the pass and it resulted in more than one turnover for White and made White look bad. I remember posting about it in the game thread.

    He's been better since but he leaves a lot of points on the table. He can set the screen but I think Okongwu could be better significantly. And ... Due to his youth, maybe Okongwu can become a better shooter than Poeltl. Maybe, maybe not. But Poeltl doesn't shoot jumpers and isn't the vertical threat I think Okongwu is.

    Considering the outlook on scoring in the future, with Murray's limitations and Aldridge/DeRozan probably either on their way out or going into decline, those 3-6 points that Okongwu might be generating over Poeltl could be needed
    For sure would be an upgrade. I don't think you have to be timid about it... Poeltl is simply not a vertical spacer. He's not a lob threat in the slightest - to the point where, during the bubble, I was kind of wondering if there's something with his knees that he'd rather avoid jumping to worsen. He's not a strong finisher either, neither as a roll man off a PnR or on the rare occasions he gets the ball in the post. No post game, no fakes, no hook shot, no midrange catch-and-shoot nor pullup, obviously no 3 - his "offensive arsenal" is literally nothing more than a soft floater on occasion, and the easy spoon-fed-by-PG points that literally any bench or starting C in the league could get. At no point has Jakob looked like a sure starter or came close to being a player who can "hold down the C position" for any number of years, tbh.

    A team just can't be getting 0 offensive production from one of their players in this modern age, no matter the position. I'm itching for the Spurs to draft a big man, either a 4 but preferrably a 5, just so they don't delude themselves into giving Jakob a deal akin in proportion to what they gave DJ. That was a stupid move, and putting a lot of money on Jakob would be stupid as well. The sooner the FO realizes Jakob is a glorified bench C, the better, tbh. I don't care whether it's Okongwu, or Okoro, or Smith or Precious or even Wiseman by trading up. Jakob is not a starter on a championship caliber team - maybe not even a starter on a high seeded playoff team, unless he's very well surrounded, imo.

  24. #2124
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    You see, the problem I have with this suggestion of trading Lonnie to keep White, which you haven't been the only poster to put forward, is that it's a false dichotomy of having to choose between both players, when the Spurs aren't being forced into that decision. Lonnie fits perfectly fine as a SG-SF off the bench for the time being, and eventually fighting for minutes at SG with Dejounte (who I actually think is the worst fit of the bunch, since he doesn't excel at any one thing that isn't replaceable, besides rebounds, which a proper PF should cover). He can also get SF minutes when Keldon's off the court. I'd even go as far as saying that White, who's 26, is a worse fit due to timeline with the rest of the players than Lonnie would be, and he's already close to his ceiling. Selling high on him after his bubble performance, or next season, wouldn't be a bad move, tbh.

    In the meantime, Lonnie is only 21. He's improved this season even if he isn't where we want him to be. He probably doesn't have that much value right now to other teams, and selling low on him before seeing what he can accomplish is foolish, especially for a rebuilding team like the Spurs who needs all the young players it can get. If the Spurs so desperately want a second or higher pick, they have plenty of vets on the roster who won't be on the team long-term and who are already at their peak value or actively declining from it, like Patty or Rudy. We'll see what happens... But I really don't see the Spurs trading Lonnie away as of right now.
    I wouldn't say I'm thinking that the Spurs have to make a choice between the current young guys.

    But I see an opportunity to improve the whole roster, and typically you have to give something to get something. The reported speculation listed the Pistons looking to first or second year players, and Lonnie fits the bill. And the two highest rated centers, but especially Okongwu, are expected to be off the board by 11.

    If I had to choose between Lonnie and Okongwu, I might go Okongwu to shift roster resources. But I definitely wouldn't add #11, I would only consider straight up.

  25. #2125
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say I'm thinking that the Spurs have to make a choice between the current young guys.

    But I see an opportunity to improve the whole roster, and typically you have to give something to get something. The reported speculation listed the Pistons looking to first or second year players, and Lonnie fits the bill. And the two highest rated centers, but especially Okongwu, are expected to be off the board by 11.

    If I had to choose between Lonnie and Okongwu, I might go Okongwu to shift roster resources. But I definitely wouldn't add #11, I would only consider straight up.
    I see your point. Let's raise a counter-point.

    Are the Spurs so desperate for another mid-lottery pick in a weak draft, that they'd be willing to sell low on their previously highest draft pick since Duncan? Lonnie is probably at his lowest or close to lowest value he'll ever be (provided he at least improves a bit over the next couple years, I'm not even talking about a jump into s om or close to it). His bubble outing was unimpressive - he didn't shoot all that well, his misses stuck out like a sore thumb, he had some glaring holes in his offensive and defensive game. I'm confident they can be fixed - but are the Pistons? They might not even think Lonnie alone for #7 is fair, and try to extort further value from the Spurs under this premise that Lonnie isn't all that much - and the Spurs don't have a lot of leverage to argue otherwise. That's the problem for a lot of first and second-year players: they're worth more to the team that drafted them, than to the open market.

    Meanwhile, let's assume the Spurs ARE that desperate for another pick. They can trade any one of LMA, Rudy, or a sign-and-trade with DeMar to net themselves a second FRP, then trade both of those to move up or just draft two players. If they want to pick above their current pick, they can package #11 and a lesser asset, and go get their Okongwu, without having to sacrifice Lonnie for it. They can even move up like so, and then deal a vet for a second, probably 25-30 range, FRP from a team that wants to win now. I think Rudy alone could net that from a contender.

    So, in a vacuum, Okongwu > Lonnie might make sense (even though I don't agree personally). I just don't see the Spurs putting themselves in that position, or being so desperate for any prospect in this draft so as to sacrifice a player they've put major stock in, like Lonnie is. Of course, your guess is as good as mine, and we'll see on draft night, but I personally wouldn't like that trade at all... Especially because it sends Lonnie to Detroit. He doesn't deserve that, man...

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