Stimulus & Bailout Watch Thread

[Spurminator]

I don't get the outrage with larger companies getting PPP loans. The loans are to fund payroll. The people who work in a Ruth's Chris restaurant are no different from people who work at an independent local restaurant. This isn't like corporate tax cuts that can be used for stock buybacks. Maybe I'm wrong somewhere but I don't get it.

[Will Hunting]

I don't get the outrage with larger companies getting PPP loans. The loans are to fund payroll. The people who work in a Ruth's Chris restaurant are no different from people who work at an independent local restaurant. This isn't like corporate tax cuts that can be used for stock buybacks. Maybe I'm wrong somewhere but I don't get it.

I think the complaint is that larger brands and companies have alternative means to get liquidity. They have access to credit markets that small businesses don’t have.

It’s also understandable for there to be public disdain towards companies getting forgivable loans when they have C-Suite executives making into the 7 figures vs a mom and pop company where the owners might scrape into the 6 figures in a good year.

The way they set this up for banks to administer the loans at their discretion was also total bull , that’s the part I take issue with. The banks prioritized larger companies that they had exposure to because larger loan = larger fees (in some cases the banks got 5% processing fees) and because it’s in a bank’s interest for its borrower to get free money. The company I work for for example shouldn’t have gotten a PPP loan for a variety of reasons but because Wells Fargo is exposed to us they moved our application to the top of the pile and fast tracked it.

[boutons_deux]

The loans are to fund payroll.

I think a distinction would with be with "mass", the small business have less mass, less momentum, have no organization cushion to fall back on, maybe less credibility, and track record, credit number when applying for a loan compared to large that have in past laid of 10K or 100Ks of employees (to make more profits) and still function.

And of course, it's well known that small companies are the job creators, while large companies are job killers (eg, mergers, offshoring, etc)

[Blake]

I think the complaint is that larger brands and companies have alternative means to get liquidity. They have access to credit markets that small businesses don’t have.

It’s also understandable for there to be public disdain towards companies getting forgivable loans when they have C-Suite executives making into the 7 figures vs a mom and pop company where the owners might scrape into the 6 figures in a good year.

The way they set this up for banks to administer the loans at their discretion was also total bull , that’s the part I take issue with. The banks prioritized larger companies that they had exposure to because larger loan = larger fees (in some cases the banks got 5% processing fees) and because it’s in a bank’s interest for its borrower to get free money. The company I work for for example shouldn’t have gotten a PPP loan for a variety of reasons but because Wells Fargo is exposed to us they moved our application to the top of the pile and fast tracked it.

Good post

[Blake]

Small businesses bad now. If you're not eating porridge and watching povertyball on a black and white CRT TV, you're part of the problem.

Unintelligible post.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think the complaint is that larger brands and companies have alternative means to get liquidity. They have access to credit markets that small businesses don’t have.

It’s also understandable for there to be public disdain towards companies getting forgivable loans when they have C-Suite executives making into the 7 figures vs a mom and pop company where the owners might scrape into the 6 figures in a good year.

The way they set this up for banks to administer the loans at their discretion was also total bull , that’s the part I take issue with. The banks prioritized larger companies that they had exposure to because larger loan = larger fees (in some cases the banks got 5% processing fees) and because it’s in a bank’s interest for its borrower to get free money. The company I work for for example shouldn’t have gotten a PPP loan for a variety of reasons but because Wells Fargo is exposed to us they moved our application to the top of the pile and fast tracked it.

I agree with most of what you said, but the banks weren't getting 5% on those big loans. It was a sliding scale. As I remember it the 5% stopped at 300K. They were only getting 1% on those big ones.. But you were right on their motivation to take care of those big customers. If the bank had exposure through loans and credit lines they made sure they went to the top of the stack.

[boutons_deux]

I agree with most of what you said, but the banks weren't getting 5% on those big loans. It was a sliding scale. As I remember it the 5% stopped at 300K. They were only getting 1% on those big ones.. But you were right on their motivation to take care of those big customers. If the bank had exposure through loans and credit lines they made sure they went to the top of the stack.

Banks still pocketed $5B (= $600/week for 8.3M weeks) for writing no-risk govt-guaranteed loans.

43K millionaires got $69B ( = $600/week for 100M+ weeks)

I think I read the banks were reticent to write small loans because the small borrowers, even guaranteed, were too high risk.

Capitalism has a pro-Capitalist bias.

[Will Hunting]

I agree with most of what you said, but the banks weren't getting 5% on those big loans. It was a sliding scale. As I remember it the 5% stopped at 300K. They were only getting 1% on those big ones.. But you were right on their motivation to take care of those big customers. If the bank had exposure through loans and credit lines they made sure they went to the top of the stack.

Yeah what I said was misleading in that respect.

Still though, I’ll take 1% of $20 million over 5% of $300k if it’s the same amount of work. Banks should have been given a smaller flat fee per loan to incentivize then in the other direction.

[boutons_deux]

Fed Chair Powell says

without more stimulus,

economy won’t recover

(but Trump and McConnell “Just Say NO”)

Says Powell:

The record shows that deeper and longer recessions can leave behind lasting damage to the productive capacity of the economy.

Avoidable household and business insolvencies can weigh on growth for years to come.

Long stretches of unemployment can damage or end workers’ careers as their skills lose value and professional networks dry up, and leave families in greater debt.

The loss of thousands of small- and medium-sized businesses across the country

would destroy the life’s work and family legacy of many business and community leaders and

limit the strength of the recovery when it comes.

These businesses are a principal source of job creation—something we will sorely need as people seek to return to work.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell calls the House stimulus bill “dead on arrival.” Obviously,

he and the other Trump sycophants are determined to make the problems pointed out by Powell even worse.

http://redgreenandblue.org/2020/05/1...l-just-say-no/

How hard will the Dems campaign for the $3T? My guess is that they will lose, yet again.

Moscow Mitch will extort more $100Bs for the oligarchy, or no deal

[MultiTroll]

I think the complaint is that larger brands and companies have alternative means to get liquidity. They have access to credit markets that small businesses don’t have.

It’s also understandable for there to be public disdain towards companies getting forgivable loans when they have C-Suite executives making into the 7 figures vs a mom and pop company where the owners might scrape into the 6 figures in a good year.

The way they set this up for banks to administer the loans at their discretion was also total bull , that’s the part I take issue with. The banks prioritized larger companies that they had exposure to because larger loan = larger fees (in some cases the banks got 5% processing fees) and because it’s in a bank’s interest for its borrower to get free money. The company I work for for example shouldn’t have gotten a PPP loan for a variety of reasons but because Wells Fargo is exposed to us they moved our application to the top of the pile and fast tracked it.

Phuck that is interesting.

How disgusting. I know a fair amount of smaller and even one person shop owners (barbershops etc). What a travesty they are so far getting nothing while the fat corps are leeching again.

[boutons_deux]

$500 billion Treasury fund meant for coronavirus relief has lent barely any money so far, oversight commission finds

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/05/18/treasury-coronavirus-bailout-fund-cares-act/

So Repugs are going to say "see, CARES failed to stimulate the economy, so block the HEROES act"

[boutons_deux]

Mnuchin to face grilling about small-business lending effort

Fed Chair Powell pledged to reveal the names and other details of the en ies that borrow from the emergency programs the central bank has set up to offset the economic hit from the viral outbreak.

In his prepared testimony, Powell said the central bank will disclose the amounts borrowed and the interest rates it levies under its programs to provide credit for large corporations, state and local governments, and medium-sized businesses.

“We are deeply committed to transparency, and recognize that the need for transparency is heightened when we are called upon to use our emergency powers,”

https://apnews.com/450ebe852275ab7dc...2qIO80OCRlKMIJ

[boutons_deux]

As coronavirus crushes small restaurants,

big chains see room to move in

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...2F+Top+News%29

The genization by corporatization continues.

The same corporate chain, faceless, boring, cookie-cutter no matter where you go, crushing entrepreneurs.

[boutons_deux]

Wedding Planner, Caterer, “Brand Builder”:

Trump’s Food Aid Program Is Paying $100+ Million to Unlicensed Dealers

Contractors with no experience in food distribution are looking for suppliers on Facebook while some food banks scramble to find desperately needed deliveries.

A food relief program championed by President Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka is relying on some

contractors who lack food distribution experience and aren’t licensed to deal in fresh fruits and vegetables.

Forty-nine out of the 159 contractors ... don’t have a requisite license from the same agency

other contractors have eclectic backgrounds with little track record in food distribution, such as a wedding planner, a caterer and a “brand builder.”

https://www.propublica.org/article/wedding-planner-caterer-brand-builder-trumps-food-aid-program-is-paying-100-million-to-unlicensed-dealers?utm_source=pardot&utm_medium=email&utm_cam paign=majorinvestigations&utm_content=river

The INcompetence and corruption are UnPresidented

[spurraider21]

I think the complaint is that larger brands and companies have alternative means to get liquidity. They have access to credit markets that small businesses don’t have.

It’s also understandable for there to be public disdain towards companies getting forgivable loans when they have C-Suite executives making into the 7 figures vs a mom and pop company where the owners might scrape into the 6 figures in a good year.

The way they set this up for banks to administer the loans at their discretion was also total bull , that’s the part I take issue with. The banks prioritized larger companies that they had exposure to because larger loan = larger fees (in some cases the banks got 5% processing fees) and because it’s in a bank’s interest for its borrower to get free money. The company I work for for example shouldn’t have gotten a PPP loan for a variety of reasons but because Wells Fargo is exposed to us they moved our application to the top of the pile and fast tracked it.

my boy's wicked smart

[baseline bum]

my boy's wicked smart

[Will Hunting]

Phuck that is interesting.

How disgusting. I know a fair amount of smaller and even one person shop owners (barbershops etc). What a travesty they are so far getting nothing while the fat corps are leeching again.

I’m not sure how a sole proprietorship would be eligible to get either way since the eligible loan size was primarily dependent on run rate payroll, but to use your example a barbershop that employees a small number of people is a small business that got screwed.

They could have done a much better job altogether creating a criteria. Even employee size is a narrow way to look at it. A real estate investment trust with tens of billions in assets under management isn’t going to have 500 employees or anything close, but I’d hardly classify that as a small business the government should be looking for ways to help.

[Spurminator]

I’m not sure how a sole proprietorship would be eligible to get either way since the eligible loan size was primarily dependent on run rate payroll, but to use your example a barbershop that employees a small number of people is a small business that got screwed.

Sole proprietors and self employed can count themselves as the payroll, FYI

[Will Hunting]

Sole proprietors and self employed can count themselves as the payroll, FYI

Yeah I wasn’t sure but I imagine they have to have historically been paying themselves a salary. If they were taking all their income as K-1 income then they shouldn’t get to claim payroll relief, imo.

[Winehole23]

Adam Tooze's FP article is EU facing, the politics are pertinent IMO. Central banks backstop the so-called free market.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/13...-court-ruling/

[boutons_deux]

Sole proprietors and self employed can count themselves as the payroll, FYI

The self-employed pay the employee's AND employer's payroll taxes, so of course the self-EMPLOYED is eligible for PPP to pay himself, both the Fed and TX do ents make this clear, with 10Ms Americans stuck in no-future gig work.

[Winehole23]

Unintelligible post.

The perception that banks acted as bailout concierges and helped large employers elbow small ones aside, seems to be the case. A lot of indy restaurants didn't get the PPP.

[CosmicCowboy]

The perception that banks acted as bailout concierges and helped large employers elbow small ones aside, seems to be the case. A lot of indy restaurants didn't get the PPP.

There is still PPP money available if they want it.

[Winehole23]

There is still PPP money available if they want it.

Man, quit staring at the finger.

[CosmicCowboy]

Man, quit staring at the finger.

???? WTF?